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Puns vs. stereotypes w/re: Elizabeth Warren and Native Americans

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Boston Boxer, Aug 9, 2012.

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  1. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Moderator's note: This thread was cut from the Contest thread because that thread does not allow commentary. Although this thread starts off with being about moderation, it gradually evolves into a debate on stereotyping, specifically with regard to Patradomus' choice of puns for Elizabeth Warren

    _______________________________________


    we need new unbiased mods...you cant be a mod AND comment on postes as well. It just does not work.

    I was just removed from a thread because i did not like what another poster said. It wqs rasist and should not be tolerated...yet i am removed. Perfect example of why Mods cant contribute to threads...they are biased.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2012
  2. patsfan13

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    Re: Contest


    You personally attacked aother poster (not me), for this you were removed from the thread.

    BTW try to learn to spell racist if you want to play the race card.

    The only person being attacked was Elizabeth Warren. No Native American was denegrated or stereotyped.

    Warren posed as a Native American, if you wanted to be outraged direct your outrage at her for posing as a NAtive American for personal gain.

    If moderators weren't allowed to comment on threads there would be no mods, it's not liek we get paid to do this.
  3. chicowalker

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    Re: Contest

    You're going to call another poster out on spelling? You? Really?
  4. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Re: Contest

    btw, did you open a locked thread just so you could post a criticism of another poster (Boston boxer)?

    A criticism that he can't answer since you kicked him
    out, and that nobody else could either, since you then locked the thread again?
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  5. IcyPatriot

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    Re: Contest

    Seriously ... he did that ... if so not cool.
  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Re: Contest

    Not only is it not "cool," it's wrong.

    That whole post was a stereotype of American Indians. It was a poor attempt to portray Elizabeth Warren as the worst kind of Indian. The kind that speaks in grunts and broken sentences, using terms not heard since the 1700s unless they were meant to be derogatory.

    If I were to atttempt to mocking Allen West and said something like, "Oh, massa', my people's is jus' poor little pickaninny nigras, theys don' know nuttin' 'bout no readin' 'n writin'. They be da stupidest niggas, massa, please don' gives dem no mo' free stuff, massa, dey's too stupid to know what to do with it, massa," I'd surely expect that post to be removed.

    I can't believe anyone thinks that post was ok.
  7. PatsFanInVa

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    Re: Rules of the Political Forum

    Don't know if this is a thread-crossing discussion or not, but this is the Rules thread, not the contest thread.
  8. PatsFanInVa

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    Re: Contest

    It's a study in the slippery slope stereotyping argument. The parallel for the oh-so-clever sobriquet "Lieawatha" would be if a candidate's name was Sam Johnson, and the controversy were about claiming a black ancestor, and the clever poster posted over and over again about "Sambo Johnson." Of course it would be offensive. Or perhaps you'll reply that Sambo and Hiawatha aren't equivalent, because the story of "Little Black Sambo" is already derogatory, while "Hiawatha" isn't. Then think about the Sam Johnson candidate being called "Samuel L Jackson Johnson." It's still trying to call up a stereotype to both represent a race and denigrate the target. You can imagine the clever and to-the-point conversation that would follow. If you're lucky it would just include things like "royale with cheese," but I doubt it.

    No wonder you ended up with people doing 1950s grunt-talk to represent Native Americans, and then claims that racist westerns have set the precedent for what's okay. I await the explanation of why the Klan is okay based on Birth of a Nation. Citing racist films to justify racist posts is the most absurd tactic I've seen here for some time.

    PFnV
  9. Hebeill

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    Re: Rules of the Political Forum

    Its not good to cross thread. [​IMG]
  10. 1960Pats

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    Re: Rules of the Political Forum

    I can't tell the difference.

    It amazes me how we, the good ol' U.S. of A., have come to the point that we have today. While we have a constitutional right to fee speech, we have allowed one radical group to control what is said publicly and to silence opposing views.

    If someone calls a conservative group or person a name, then they're simply expressing their constitutionally protected right of free speech. If that same person is critical of a liberal view, then they could easily be called out as racist, bigoted, homophobic (a new word btw), and a whole host of other hateful names.

    It's as if liberals feel that they have a right to not be offended, while at the same time offending anyone or anything they want. In my opinion, that's the height of hypocrisy, and this board, like all others really, is the poster child for that backward mentality.

    I used to drink Coke for quite a few years, mostly because that is what was fed to us here in Taxachusetts. But then the recipe for Coke was drastically changed and I came to like the taste of Pepsi much, much more. I will never go back to the awful, bitter taste of Coke again.

    Sadly, I also believe that we won't be able to settle our differences in this current political climate. As a society we need to be talking more openly about all subjects, and not less.
  11. patsfan13

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    Wrong MS Warren is not a Native American, if those comments for example about Ex Sen Ben Nighthorse Campbell (who is Native American) that would be Stereotyping Native Americans.

    The things is, which the libs refuse to acknowledge is that MS Warren isn't Native American and she personally is the one being mocked for pretending (and benefiting from) to be a Native American.


    That is why your comparison with Allen West are so off base.

    If a Pub pretended to be a minority when they were not fr personal gain the libs would be mocking him/her and rightly so. Funny that the libs aren't offended by that.

    This seems to be an entirely partisan matter.

    IMO the libs fabricates indignation to stop conversations that are critical of 'their guy'.
  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Re: Contest

    So answer me this honestly, 13.

    If you were an American Indian would you be offended reading someone pretending to be someone pretending to be an Indian and used words like, "me big wampum," and "split tail," and "firewater," and "loco weed," and "no make-um papoose pills?"

    How do you not understand that it doesn't matter why you use the words, by using them you are feeding and perpetuating the stereotype. You are saying," This is how Indians talk. This is how Elizabeth Warren would talk if she were really an Indian."

    I seem to recall that you "conservatives" had no trouble with Marco Rubio embellishing his family's "escape" from Casto or with Sarah Palin's children and grandchildren getting federal health insurance because they are some very small percent native Alaskan Indian.

    How does that not "offend" you? If I took Bristol Palin and photoshopped her into a fat, toothless, dirty-haired Eskimo-looking stereotype with a naked snot nosed kid strapped to her chest and drinking from a bottle of MD20-20 while eating bloody seal blubber and waving food stamps and a government medical card in the air I'm pretty sure you'd be offended.

    In fact, I'm certain of it.
  13. DarrylS

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    She never claimed that she was complete native american, she believed the stories her parents told her.. as we all do until we explore our genealogy.

    I was brought up believing that I was as descendent of John Parker of Lexington, we even had a rifle with his name on it. For the past 10 years have been working on and off on my genealogy, and finally figured it out that I descended from a Captain John Parker of the Revolutionary war who was with the RI Regiment and had no relationship with the John Parker of Lexington.

    So have bragged about that my whole life, was I wrong?? Yes, but not due to lying, instead insufficient information provided by my family who did not have the benefit of web based genealogy..

    Denigrating a man or woman with racist terminology is inexcusable and defies the spirit of civility as indicated by Ian..
  14. Hebeill

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    Re: Contest

    My God what an image you've conjured up. If you ever did that there would be fifty pages of nasty replies about vicious liberals. They forum would melt down.
  15. patsfan13

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    If I were Native American I would be offended that someone would steal my identity for their personal gain. This was the case with the Cherokee tribe she claimed to be a member of of course she still hasn't deigned to meet with them. I don't recall ANY Lib on this board bothered at ALL by her dissing the Cherokee delegation.

    Exclusive: Cherokees Demand Truth from Elizabeth Warren

    No she would talk that way because she ISN'T a Native American. She in this case is the caricature.

    IF the comments were attached to A REAL Native American then it wouldn't be tolerated.
  16. Hebeill

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    Re: Contest

    You've got a presidential candidate in Mitt Romney who made money disposing of aborted fetuses who says hes anti abortion. Why no outrage? Warren claiming is was part indian (1/38th in fact) is minor in comparison.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  17. DarrylS

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    Re: Contest

    Your captioned article is from the Dead Breitbarts, so it can only be party true and probably taken out of context..

    No matter who they are directed toward, they still demean Native Americans.. there are no exceptions. If you passed this on to any Native American they would certainly object...

    Words like Liewatha or Pocohonky are not only racist, but are directed toward women who have been maligned by main stream america both now and in the past..

    Not sure if you remember the outcry over mountains that were named Squaw... many have changed due to sensitivity issues.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  18. chicowalker

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    Re: Rules of the Political Forum

    The hypocrisy is somebody on the right complaining about libruls offending others while feeling they have a right not to be offended.

    the left may use the labels you mentioned incorrectly at times. But the right acts as if the labels are never correct.

    It's funny that your little metaphor re Coke and pepsi ignores how similar coke and pepsi really are. The way you've described them truly is a good metaphor for your partisan pov versus reality.

    and btw, "homophobic" is a new word? what's your definition of "new"?
  19. DarrylS

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    Re: Rules of the Political Forum

    You do understand that this is privately owned board.. and there has to be moderation, due to the scrutiny that the owner might face..

    Read Ian's comments about civiliity and expectations, he makes the rules.. a major deficit here is uneven enforcement by the moderators...

    Just about every board has limits as to what you can and cannot say, even Stormfront has limits as to what can be posted...
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  20. patsfan13

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    I have said Romnet's position on abortion is bad.


    Warren using her claim to get a diversity position at Harvard is bad.


    The Cherokee's feel that way and she won't even give them a meeting.
  21. DarrylS

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    There is no evidence that she used her native american heritage to get her position at Harvard, those who made the decision said her heritage was not a factor and were unaware of it...

    Without regard, the right will hang on to this and make a big deal using misogynist and racist commentary complete with glossies, and then complain how much the left is diverting from the economic issues in their criticism of Romney..

    Duplicity, pure and simple..

    It makes no difference in an election that you are not voting in..
  22. patsfan13

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    Ah yes the usual attack the messenger play. OK, here it is directly from the Cherokee group Ms Warren has offended and is now refusing to meet with.

    Cherokees Demand Truth from Elizabeth Warren: Why America Should Care


    So are the libs sensitive to the feelings of the Cherokee people and who is actually offending them?
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  23. DarrylS

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    The Dead Breitbarts deserve to be scrutinized as they lie daily, and seldom if ever tell the truth.. the link is based to 156 people who claim that they are Cherokee..

    Yet you ignore the fact that these threads are racist and misogynistic... as you have appointed yourself the sargeant at arms for the Cherokee Nation??

    The reality is that she was told as a child, as many of us were, stories about her heritage that were later found not to be true.. what is the big deal?? We have testimony from the folks who hired her at Harvard that her heritage had nothing to do with her hiring...

    Aren't you one of the dudes who continually cry about diverting attention away from the actual issues of the presidentail campaign.. but here it is ok for these racist and misogynistic comments to continue.. duplicity at its finest..

    It is ok to continue with the racist and misogynist commentary and pictures, because the mods are protecting the Cherokee Nation... what a joke. The commentary and pictures are offensive to all native americans..
  24. patsfan13

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    So you don't take the opinions of real Native Americans into account as you appoint yourself as the godly political speech censor.

    Nice.


    Deflect Distract, rinse repeat.
  25. Hebeill

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    I have a similar story, which i mentioned before in a post early on when this first came up months ago. When myself and my brother and sister were very young my father would tell us my mother was part indian. He was only joking but at eight or nine we didn't know. I told people i was part indian till i was in my forties. One day i asked my mother what tribe it was exactly, she said in disbelief "i'm not part indian, your father was only joking" So i don't think this kind of thing is that un-common, and i don't believe Warren did it on purpose. And its the intent which is most important. Meanwhile a group of ignorant bottom feeders uses it to disparage a women who has integrity to try and obfuscate, to direct peoples attention from talking about real issues. I don't dislike Scott Brown but i think Warren would be a better choice for middle class Americans.
  26. DarrylS

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    156 Native Americans of the Cherokee Nation are the authors of that blog.. you can take the opinions of all native americans who would without a date be quite upset, as you are a moderator, that the racism and misogynist commentary continues without moderation..

    There no justification for the language and pictures posted... amazing you do not see the duplicity that you want to sanction Warren over what she said, but turn your back on the misogyny and racism towards all native americans..

    Makes no sense.. does not seem to work both ways..

    Seeing how you seem to believe how credible they are, why don't you send captions of the posts and pictures for their scrutiny??? Maybe that would be an interesting role for someone else to do...
  27. patsfan13

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    This is a good idea, I will contact them.
  28. DarrylS

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    And in the meantime continue to allow folks to post misogynist and racist comments about native american women on this board, and then worry about the actions of Elizabeth Warren and her claims.

    Duplicity rears its ugly head.. if you contact them it would be an interesting gamble, because despite your intent to police Warren they may be apalled by the comments made towards Native Americans in general...
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  29. Boston Boxer

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    Re: Contest

    so, you are ok with the way that poster spoke about Native Americans? So its ok to do that? I just want to make sure i understand you. I am not talking about the message, but the way he claims Native Americans speak. I found it racist (thanks for the spelling lesson). Just like we should not be able to make fun of inner city negros and ebonics. Or how about the term "beaner packing" a car...because everyone knows thats how mexican get around, they stuff people into one vehicle to get over the boarder. Can we tell stories of how cheap Jews are? What about Asians. Everyone know they cant drive, have small dicks and are good at math. Pretty funny huh? but out of all that, you chose to ban me for attacking another poster. Dod you see how funny that is...since he was the one to make fun of and attack Native Americans, which i am one. But since you are a biased Mod, you can do anything you want and get away with it. That is fine, i dont need to post here any longer. But what was done is wrong.
  30. patsfan13

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    The poster is making fun of Elizabeth Warren not Native Americans, the use of the language is part of locking Warren for her lame attempts to claim Native American heritage for her personal gain.

    Why aren't you offended by Warren trying to steal the Identity of the Cherokee people and refusing to meet with them to explain herself?


    As I said in the previous post I will contact the Cherokee people and get their input.
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