Welcome to PatsFans.com

Prominent Republican wants to "reexamine freedom of speech"

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Seymour93, Nov 29, 2006.

  1. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,681
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    File this one under "digging their own grave"...

    http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=d3f4ee4e-1e90-475a-b1b0-bbcd5baedd78

  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,406
    Likes Received:
    137
    Ratings:
    +264 / 10 / -26

    Gingrich is trying to position himself as a Republican Candidate for the Prez in '08, he has a real checkered past which will probably come back to haunt him, if you thought Clinton was a .... hound, you ain't seen nothing until the skeletons in this guys closet come out. I don't see him as being able to do much, but he is garnering a lot of attention and publicity.
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,822
    Likes Received:
    170
    Ratings:
    +538 / 2 / -9

    Times Change, enemy's change, we no longer drive horse and wagons, the new enemy "USES" our freedoms in their plans to kill us and you.

    If Thomas Jefferson had heard about Osama Bin Laden and The Uncle Teddy Gang he would fully agree with Newt Gingrich.

    When the Constitution was written they were still using "Outhouses"
    :bricks:
  4. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    So which freedoms do you think should be revised, Harry? How do you propose we do it, by amendment or just by ignoring the parts of the constitution we don't like?
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,547
    Likes Received:
    178
    Ratings:
    +426 / 10 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    I know one thing, I am fine with unfettered monitoring of phone and internet communication by the government. If I were a terrorist than I am fine with the government "listening in" to see who I'm talking to if it will find other terrorists.

    Sorry, it's the world we live in. As Gingrich said, better than that to lose a city.
  6. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Ok, I'll play along. What safeguards would you put in place to prevent a repeat of J. Edgar Hoover's practice of using government information for personal political gain? If the process is unchecked by judges, who watches the watchers?
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,547
    Likes Received:
    178
    Ratings:
    +426 / 10 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    I don't have exact limits in mind right now. But at a high level I'm more interested in "who watches the terrorists" than "who watches the watchers".
  8. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    You need to be interested in both. If you want to take away a safeguard (the courts) you need to replace it with another. It's not a hypothetical problem, spying powers have a history of being abused.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,547
    Likes Received:
    178
    Ratings:
    +426 / 10 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    Maybe I need to be interested in both but I'm WAY more interested in getting terrorists right now. I'm fine with helping the bigger problem by allowing unfettered spying and then dealing with what the limits should be. But right now I want to get the terrorists in any way possible.

    It would suck to see NY, Boston or Chicago nuked and that's where we're heading.
  10. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    See, I think it's hundreds of time less likely that terrorists will nuke a city, compared to the likelyhood of the government spying on innocent people.

    If you're willing to get the terrorists in any way possible, why not cameras in every home and business?
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,990
    Likes Received:
    188
    Ratings:
    +433 / 5 / -2

    Gingrich is a has been. He's a little too loony for my taste. He is going to run in 2008, for what reason I have no idea. The guy has no chance. He speaks as much for the GOP as Jimmy Carter does for the Dems. They're former players who no one really takes seriously anymore.

    As for Freedom of speech, don't touch it. I'm opposed to flag buring amendments which should show you all how much I believe in the Constitution. Now, that doesn't mean that todays troubles aren't serious. Obvioulsy as civilization matures, threats do too. We need to be reasonable and adjust accordingly when dealing with said threats. I'm all for the NSA wire tapping, only, I'm not for a free pass when it comes to checks and balances. I certainly don't think we need to piss on the constituiton to ensure safety. The problem with this is the politics involved. Niether side wants to do whats right, they only want to do what's right for them politically.
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,547
    Likes Received:
    178
    Ratings:
    +426 / 10 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    Sure the nuking of a city is less likely. But the consequences are much higher.

    For Middle Eastern immigrants, I have no interest in their "rights". Their countrymen have earned that for them.
  13. PatsFaninAZ

    PatsFaninAZ Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,097
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    Islamic terrorists are not the first threat to the Union. In fact, starting in 1812, the Republic has been subject thoughout its history to a barrage of threats to its existence. It's funny that people who have coined the term "Islamofascists" seem to forget that facism too was a pernicious threat our nation's survival.

    Through it all, our Constitution has perservered. The reality is that you believe the Framers had wisdom and foresight or you don't. If you don't believe that, the U.S.A. is pretty much no different than any number of other nations. If you believe in the "Great Experiment," then you have to go where it takes you. No single proposition was more instrumental to the framers than the notion that Democracy is incredibly fragile and that its preservation as a healthy organism cannot exist without free speech.
  14. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    So you only support cameras in the homes of Middle Eastern immigrants?
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,990
    Likes Received:
    188
    Ratings:
    +433 / 5 / -2

    Let's remember how black a mark WW II was in this country for Japanese Americans. I don't think we ever want to go their again. I think people need to be realistic, and middle easterners, or muslims, need to understand that they are going to be surveiled a little differently than most. It sucks, but it's reality. I don't think we should treat them any differently, as much as we should use common sense when considering specific situations.
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,822
    Likes Received:
    170
    Ratings:
    +538 / 2 / -9

    Whatever is needed to keep the Savage "OUT" they could start with asking why anybody would want to learn how to fly a plane but they didn't want to learn how to land it.

    They could also put signs up in all public Airports reading, "Dear Muslims, if you have to pray please do so before entering the Terminal or boarding your plane".

    They should also be allowed to wiretap all American Mosques and all Calls coming to and from the Middle East and other Countries that practice the Muslim religion.

    Profiling should be the law in all ports of entry in America including Canada.

    The military should be on guard at all borders both north and south with orders to shoot to kill anyone that disobeys their orders to halt.

    Auntie Pelosi should be ordered by the Supreme court to "Stop Grinning" we all now know what her teeth look like.

    Al "Crazy" Gore and John "Fonda" Kerry should never be allowed out of their houses again.

    Another 9/11 WILL HAPPEN, it is just a matter of time, the Savage is patient.
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,547
    Likes Received:
    178
    Ratings:
    +426 / 10 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    I know you'll throw the occasional non Middle Easterner at me but it's a likelihood-consequence thing. It's overwhelmingly more likely for an immigrant from the Middle East.
  18. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    You haven't answered the question, do you support government cameras in the homes of all Middle Easterners?
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2006
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,547
    Likes Received:
    178
    Ratings:
    +426 / 10 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    No.

    But internet and phone taps, yes.
  20. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Seems like an arbitrary line. If they know we're only listening to their electronic conversations, they'll just meet in person. The only way to keep us safe is to monitor EVERYTHING.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>