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Product of the system?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Asante4prez, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. Asante4prez

    Asante4prez Rookie

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    How many fans are sick of people telling them that Tom Brady is merely a product of the system?

    Every season I have to hear from a bunch of idiots that say this over and over again. Sure Brady has a very good Offensive line here in New England, but I wouldn't call him a "product of our system". I think If Brady went to an Atlanta or a Jacksonville(hypothetical!!!!), he would have no problem being a superstar there as well.

    Peyton Manning doesn't have a great O-line? You wanna talk about a "product of a system". The guy never gets sacked and last time I checked Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are pretty outstanding recievers.


    give me a break....
  2. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    If you're still hearing this from anyone in 2007, then indeed they are idiots. People were routinely saying this about Brady in 2001/2002 and into 2003 before the Pats won it all, but by now this talk is mostly gone.

    Regards,
    Chris
  3. feelthepain

    feelthepain Banned

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    Kinda hard to tell either way because he's only been in one system, but he wasn't the star at Michigan that he is in NE. Michigan isn't a small school so you can't say he was not surrounded by talent or a good system. The only way you can make a statement that Brady isn't the product of a system is to send him to the worst team in the league and see how he plays there. If he takes that team to the playoffs and deep into the playoffs, then I would agree it's not about the system for him. Till then Brady will be considered a system QB by many in the NFL.
  4. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    what system do we have that helps Brady?

    The passing attack is built around Brady for his strengths and weaknesses

    we spread it around because Brady finds the open person
    Brady can throw passes all over

    i dont see anything special we do to help Brady really.

    u can say some of the WRs are/were but thats because Brady is very good and makes them better because he knows the WRs well and their strengths and where to get it to them
  5. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

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    Exactly. I haven't heard Brady referred to as a system QB since maybe the '03 camp.
  6. kriskanos

    kriskanos Rookie

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    Heres a simple retort for any moron who says this. This "system" was 5-13 before Brady took over.
  7. feelthepain

    feelthepain Banned

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    You answered your own question. What makes "NE's" system what it is, is the coaching staff and that system understands how best to utilize Brady. However if he went to Arizona and plays in that system and those coaches don't use Brady the same way, then Brady has to compensate for that and make adjustments to get the most out of Arizonas system. Can Brady play as effective in that type of system? That's the question.
  8. feelthepain

    feelthepain Banned

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    So because of 18 games, that answers the question??? I think until he plays in a different system you'll never know. Since no one can see Brady anywhere but NE, that question will never be answered...unless this is BB last year and you hire a new coach with an entirely different system.
  9. kriskanos

    kriskanos Rookie

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    Are you suggesting we send Brady to the Dolphins?
  10. feelthepain

    feelthepain Banned

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    Are you suggesting you got stomped by the worst team in the league last year?
  11. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    The other part of it is that Drew Bledsoe, Rohan Davey, Kliff Kingsbury, and Matt Cassel have not thrived in this system, so you can't just thank the system and think you can throw anyone in there.
  12. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rookie

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    It's just people who still can't admit they were wrong.

    The other great QB in the game, Peyton Manning, has been in the exact same offense (and same co-ordinator) his entire career.

    I'd also defy anyone to watch the 2005 offense and the 2006 offense and say they were the same.
  13. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    Brady put the death nail in "the system" argument last year. No other AND I MEAN NO OTHER quarterback could have a respectable year with what we had at the receiver position. Manning's huge head would have exploded if he couldn't throw those precise sideline routes that his receivers catch and step out of bounds to avoid contact :)
  14. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    ur supposed to build it around your Quarterback though.

    i mean..if you have a franchise guy. give him the control to do what he needs to

    thats just great coaching. im sure Brady can go elsewhere and throw 30 TDs but i dont think the team could be as good despite the #s

    if you use what u have properly..your fine.

    read a label for medicine or something. if you dont take the proper dosages or use it properly..it might not work.

    example. u cant take chad pennington and put him in a verticle passing attack. thats not his style. hes a smart guy who makes reads and doesnt go long a lot because of what he has.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2007
  15. kriskanos

    kriskanos Rookie

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    See its people like you who cant remember two weeks ago(I blame this on ESPN and its reactionary reporting) and who have no knowledge of football that make the most asinine comments. In your little mind the Patriots were a juggernaut rolling along when Brady came in. Heres the truth the "system" had just got off to a 5-11 start, then we started 0-2. Enter Brady. Hello Lombardis. No system works well without a smart QB. Besides a true system QB is a ball control QB who just hands off to his superior RBs.(ala worthlessburger, dilfer etc.) These QBs can be exposed by making them pass more. The more they pass the less successful. Brady has never been able(except for 1 year with Dillon) to rely on a great run game. Nor has he ever had a great reciever. This makes him all the more remarkable. And makes you look ignorant. Speaking of QBs does Miami even have one? I almost felt sorry for Ty Law in KC last year, watching him intercept balls in the playoffs running them inside the ten and watching Trent Green get jack shat out of it.
  16. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    So I guess Joe Montana, John Elway & Dan Marino were products of their systems, too? Come on, you can tell if a guy is good or not by watching him play. I live amongst Raiders fans who are still bitter about the Tuck Rule, but even they have seen enough by now to realize Brady is good on his own. You get a minor free pass because the Phins indeed have spanked Brady around so maybe that's the most of Brady you've seen, but the guy does things that go beyond any system (e.g. outstanding pocket presence, excellent at his checkdowns, expertly looks off his intended receivers, doesn't let a ferocious pass rush get into his head).

    Regards,
    Chris
  17. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    Brady wasnt a great talentwhen he came in

    listen to this quote by Kevin Durant..im sure someone used it before him

    "Hard work beats great talent when great talent fails to work hard"
  18. feelthepain

    feelthepain Banned

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    None of the QB's you mention above had the same system their whole careers. I'm not saying Brady is a system QB, just trying to explain why people would consider him a system QB.
  19. Captain Cliche

    Captain Cliche Rookie

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    What sets Brady apart are his clutch performances. That is an individual thing, not a system thing.

    If anything, his accuracy has, until this year, allowed the system to get by with a less than stellar receiving corp.

    The whole "dink and dunk...system quarterback" thing is passe and only brought up by casual fans who are out of touch or bitter, pathetic fans of other teams hoplessly grasping at straws.

    Any true fan of the game would acknowledge Brady as a bonified star headed to the NFL Hall of Fame whose presence would improve most franchises.
  20. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    And we're explaining why people who consider him a system QB are lousy at assessing a QB's talent.

    Regards,
    Chris
  21. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rookie

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    I blame the 'system' crap on Charlie Weiss. It was he who claimed Brady was doing 'well in the system they placed around him in 2001'...that stigma has stuck with Brady! Those who just could not figure out how a 6th rounder could be so accurate, so smart and just win needed to hang their hat on something in order to prove to themselves that someone that incredible could last into the 6th round of the NFL draft.

    For those who witnessed the 2006 season and saw Tom Brady lead a team with virtually no running game and subpar WR's to the AFC Championship game and STILL call him a system QB...well, those people are ignorant and are just trying to get you riled up. They are not worth your breathe or energy!
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2007
  22. Asante4prez

    Asante4prez Rookie

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    exactly....
  23. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Every GOOD QB is the result of the SYSTEM. Even Montana and Theismann have said as much. But, they've also said that its a GOOD QB who makes the system work.

    Its idiots who don't understand the game who claim that its ONLY the system that makes Brady good.

    Also, BTW, Brady was a damn good QB at Michigan. The problem was the Alumni who pressured to get Drew Henson in the games up there. That's the only reason there were any issues with Brady at Michigan.

    The reason the Pats system has worked is because Brady understands it and works with the coaches to get the other players to buy in. That's part of Brady's leadership ability.

    Brady isn't like that spoiled little child in Indy who throws his teammates under the bus when they don't succeed. Brady takes responsibility even when its not his.

    FTP, why don't you go back to watching your Phins... or have you realized just how bad they are going to be and you want to bandwagon hop?
  24. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    That's just the idiot talking. Someone who doesn't understand the game worth a damn.

    Listen, since Brady has been in New England, they have run numerous different base offenses. Yet the Pats have succeeded because of Brady. Not despite him. The Pats will be running an offense this year that will be different than last years. Primarily because they are continuing with a new run blocking scheme and they are going to more WR sets and less of the 2 TE sets that we saw last year.

    Oh, btw, the McDaniels run offense is different than the Weis run offenses. So we can say that the question has been answered.
  25. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Any given sunday. Its why they play the games. Even the Faiders won 2 games last year.
  26. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    Isn't this what happened with Brady in 2001? Result = SB victory.

    And the Michigan situation for Brady was ridiculous. Nobody could have been successful in those circumstances.
  27. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

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    Go ahead and make the argument that Brady isn't a product of the system, I would'nt agrue against you, he's a great QB.

    But calling Manning the product of the system? Petyon Manning is the system. He is the offensive coordinator and quarterback. No one has ever ran a team the way he does, I hate to say this, but when it's all over, he'll probably be known as the best ever. Reggie Wayne is a guy that Peyton Manning has made his stats better. He puts them in a position to make a play then when the get there, he plants the ball on their numbers each time.
  28. TripleOption

    TripleOption Rookie

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    You could make the same argument for Brady. He sets the blocking and calls as many audibles as anyone.
  29. TripleOption

    TripleOption Rookie

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    Are you suggesting that the Dolphins aren't horrible?
  30. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

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    Yeah but it's not what Manning does. He is given several plays to chose from then he picks it. How many QBs have that power?

    Let me jump in and say I'd suggest that. Our defense is too good to make us a horrible team. You guys learned that first hand last year. ;)

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