Probably will have lost to 4 of the 6 AFC playoff teams

[MassPats38]

I think you are misinterpretting the point of my post. My post was a round-a-bout way of stating Bill Belicheck's "your record is what it is" statement. My statement was more of a response for the posters who were claiming that we were a few plays away from 12-4 or 13-3. By doing so would be neglecting how easily some other games could have been lost. In trying to make my point, I was stating that the Pats may have been closer to 10-6 than 12-4 as some others have said that we could easily be. So with all of the if's and what if's, at the end of the day you are what you are. I'm not claiming that the Patriots are anything other than an 11-5 team.

Sorry, and I certainly agree with that. I read a few too many of the negative "which player do we blame for the playoff miss"/"dark days since 2004" posts before reading your post.

I would agree the "what if" route, blaming the early season exit on Thomas, Gaffney, Moss or any other play that might have produced another win if things had worked in the Pat's favor, is unhealthy and does nothing. The consensus here seemed to be when Brady went down that 10-6 would be a good season. The Pats got to 11-5. The fact that this was one of those weird seasons that 10-6, let alone 11-5, does not make the playoff cut should not be cause for turning on the team and whatever mistakes were made made en route to a respectable record in virtually any other season.

 

[zoostation]

In this respect, they are similar to the 2001 team that won the Super Bowl and the 2006 team that lost to the Colts. Neither team had marquee victories.

I ALWAYS believe in Bill Belichick in the playoffs. The guy is just money come playoff time.

He's also money in december and January

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Is this your attempt at rationalization? To say that the Pats probably would have lost anyways? BS. The Pats were one of the hottest teams in the league NOT named the Colts.

Fact is that Brett Favre proved me to be right. While he WAS one of the best, all he's been for the last 5 years is the biggest choke artist not named MANNING.

I am proud of the Patriots and what they over-came to get to 11-5. But every loss was one that could have been the one that got them into the play-offs. Its unfortunate and the adversity they over-came is something that is unheard of. They ARE a play-off team in my mind.

It's not a rationalization. It's merely a way of saying that I think tie-breakers probably got it right. I think Miami deserved to get in over the Patriots. They played a slightly easier schedule, but they took out San Diego and we didn't. Other than head to head, I think that's probably as good a way of looking at it.

I don't really understand what point you're making. I'm glad that the Patriots are still playing football in your mind. Let us know how it goes for them.

I think what the Patriots did this year is awesome, and I also think they were clearly one of the best six teams in the AFC at the end of the year. That's not the criteria for the trophy, though.

 

[upstater1]

I think the Chargers are a better all-round team than us and I also think Peyton could put 35 on the board against us in a playoff game. I think we could play with them, but I don't think Cassel/McD have shown any Red Zone consistency this year to warrant a serious threat to Indy or the Steelers.

The way Buffalo ran down our throats today, I think Tennessee would have embarrassed this current front 7. Pittsburgh can shut down our offense and bend our defense with relative ease (they proven that in the thorough dismantling last month).

It was a great ride and I am pissed for not making it to the show...but there is always next year. At least I have my appetite, something I lost last February.

I'm literally stunned to read you think the Chargers are a better all around team. I watched a lot of their games and have seen a lot of horrid football from them. I really don't think the Chargers are anywhere near as good. They don't scare me.

As for getting blown out by them during the regular season, that game reminded me so much of the Pittsburgh game where we lost Corey Dillon and Tom Brady was on his butt all day, throwing 30 futile passes in a row. Come playoff time, we scored 40 points on the Steelers and blew them out.

 

[pao]

I'm literally stunned to read you think the Chargers are a better all around team. I watched a lot of their games and have seen a lot of horrid football from them. I really don't think the Chargers are anywhere near as good. They don't scare me.

As for getting blown out by them during the regular season, that game reminded me so much of the Pittsburgh game where we lost Corey Dillon and Tom Brady was on his butt all day, throwing 30 futile passes in a row. Come playoff time, we scored 40 points on the Steelers and blew them out.

Entirely predictable.

 

[upstater1]

Entirely predictable.

Thanks, I pride myself on using logic and reason. 8-8 isn't as good as 11-5 except in some fantasyland.

 

[pao]

Thanks, I pride myself on using logic and reason.

However convoluted and irrelevent.

8-8 isn't as good as 11-5 except in some fantasyland.

I didn't say differently, so I guess it's you in fantasyland. Time to get over all that anyway, I have.

 

[MaizeNBlue]

I think you are misinterpretting the point of my post. My post was a round-a-bout way of stating Bill Belicheck's "your record is what it is" statement. My statement was more of a response for the posters who were claiming that we were a few plays away from 12-4 or 13-3. By doing so would be neglecting how easily some other games could have been lost. In trying to make my point, I was stating that the Pats may have been closer to 10-6 than 12-4 as some others have said that we could easily be. So with all of the if's and what if's, at the end of the day you are what you are. I'm not claiming that the Patriots are anything other than an 11-5 team.

Excellent & Brilliant post! Anybody who keeps saying 'wouldve shouldve couldve', it is what it is.
Gaffney's drop? Peyton and his corps would have at least tried another drive to win the game, which they did most of the games they played.
Belichick's timeout? Look... at that moment, the ball came loose. His sprint run timeout negated the fumble, which would be recovered by Colts player.
And etc, etc...

It is what it is. We were a lot closer to 10-6 than 12-4 or 13-3, if all wouldve couldve happened.

Season is over. I just look forward to next season's vengence.

 

[PittPatriot]

I'm literally stunned to read you think the Chargers are a better all around team. I watched a lot of their games and have seen a lot of horrid football from them. I really don't think the Chargers are anywhere near as good. They don't scare me.

Did they scare you last year, when they whimpered into the playoffs and made a run at the AFC championship?

As for getting blown out by them (Chargers) during the regular season, that game reminded me so much of the Pittsburgh game where we lost Corey Dillon and Tom Brady was on his butt all day, throwing 30 futile passes in a row. Come playoff time, we scored 40 points on the Steelers and blew them out.

You may be right...but losing AT Pittsburgh 34-20 in a game more competitive than the score indicates was NOTHING like getting embarrassed by SD 30-10 in a game where we got completely undressed. Regardless, the 2008 Pats are more like the 2002 9-7 team than the 14-2 2004 team you are comparing them to.
As for turning it on in the playoffs, I can't disagree that we'd at least show up...but they do not have the make up of our previous teams.

 

[upstater1]

However convoluted and irrelevent.
I didn't say differently, so I guess it's you in fantasyland. Time to get over all that anyway, I have.

Convoluted?

As a product of the San Diego school system, you seem to believe that the statement "11 wins is better than 8" is somehow complex and difficult. It's not. It's quite simple, even mathematical. 11 > 8.

Get it? Or did you skip math entirely?

 

[pao]

Convoluted?

As a product of the San Diego school system, you seem to believe that the statement "11 wins is better than 8" is somehow complex and difficult. It's not. It's quite simple, even mathematical. 11 > 8.

Get it? Or did you skip math entirely?

Not only are your posts convoluted, they often take things out of context AND attribute beliefs/premises to people totally misrepresenting what they have posted. This is one of those times, I never said "11 wins is better than 8". Like I said before though, it's time to move on. That discussion is over.

 

[upstater1]

Did they scare you last year, when they whimpered into the playoffs and made a run at the AFC championship?

No, they didn't. I was at the Championship game and everyone I went with can attest to the fact that not once was I ever worried about the Chargers. It seemed no one in the stands was worried about them either.

You may be right...but losing AT Pittsburgh 34-20 in a game more competitive than the score indicates was NOTHING like getting embarrassed by SD 30-10 in a game where we got completely undressed. Regardless, the 2008 Pats are more like the 2002 9-7 team than the 14-2 2004 team you are comparing them to.
As for turning it on in the playoffs, I can't disagree that we'd at least show up...but they do not have the make up of our previous teams.

That 34-20 was not more competitive than the score indicates. The score was actually prettier than the game. I remember how frustrated Brady was. The Steelers were up 21-0, 21-3 after the first quarter, and then went up 34-10, before New England tacked on 10 points. You're right that we had an awesome team back then. The point is though, that I never put too much emphasis on one regular season game. During those years that we went 14-2, we also had a blowout loss to the Dolphins.

We can't put too much emphasis on one game, especially when Matt Cassel was not very comfortable in the pocket at all against the Chargers, and we lost a RB that game.

We've done well in recent years in the playoffs even when going in with a 11-5 record. I'd compare this team best to the 2006 team that also went 11-5. That team was floundering more than this one as they went into the playoffs. In December they lost to the woeful Dolphins 21-0. They got into the playoffs, then beat the Jaguars and Chargers, then had the Colts on the ropes. No one expected them to be Super Bowl bound, but they were very very close to it.

 

[upstater1]

Not only are your posts convoluted, they often take things out of context AND attribute beliefs/premises to people totally misrepresenting what they have posted. This is one of those times, I never said "11 wins is better than 8". Like I said before though, it's time to move on. That discussion is over.

Everyone else but you can understand 11 is better than 8. You keep saying convoluted. I'm sorry that you're having difficulty grasping this simple concept.

 

[pao]

Everyone else but you can understand 11 is better than 8. You keep saying convoluted. I'm sorry that you're having difficulty grasping this simple concept.

There you go again, attributing something to someone that misrepresents their postings. I never said 11 was better than 8. But you keep trying to get everyone (or maybe it's just yourself) to believe that is what I said. Be forewarned though, it just makes you less credible than you already are.

 

[PittPatriot]

We've done well in recent years in the playoffs even when going in with a 11-5 record. I'd compare this team best to the 2006 team that also went 11-5. That team was floundering more than this one as they went into the playoffs. In December they lost to the woeful Dolphins 21-0. They got into the playoffs, then beat the Jaguars and Chargers, then had the Colts on the ropes. No one expected them to be Super Bowl bound, but they were very very close to it.

I can live with that. I see your points...but I just feel the 2008 Pats did not show me anything to disprove the thread title.

 

[upstater1]

There you go again, attributing something to someone that misrepresents their postings. I never said 11 was better than 8. But you keep trying to get everyone (or maybe it's just yourself) to believe that is what I said. Be forewarned though, it just makes you less credible than you already are.

You're the one that disowns his comments.

What was so convoluted about what I wrote? Why did you say my post about the Patriots being more deserving of the Chargers is convoluted? How is it convoluted?

My reasoning is pretty simple, and that's what I wrote in the post. This is word for word what I wrote:

Thanks, I pride myself on using logic and reason. 8-8 isn't as good as 11-5 except in some fantasyland.

It's not my fault that you're trying to backtrack now. You're the only one here that was more impressed by the Chargers season over the Patriots season.

 

[pao]

You're the one that disowns his comments.

Again, you misrepresent. Please tell us, what comment did I disown? No answer? Of course not. But I fully expect an irrelevent, convoluted explanation. You will cherrypick something I said and make it about that or misrepresent what I have posted. Good luck with that.

What was so convoluted about what I wrote? Why did you say my post about the Patriots being more deserving of the Chargers is convoluted? How is it convoluted?

Well my cherrypicking, misrepresenting friend, the fact is I didn't say what you wrote there was convoluted or that the Chargers were more deserving than the Patriots. So, again, your question "how is it convoluted" is typically irrelevent. And your question asking "Why did "you" say "my" post about the Patriots being more deserving of the Chargers is convoluted" misrepresents anything I have said. No matter how much you try, you can't attribute "8-8 is better than 11-5" or "8>11" or the Chargers are more deserving than the Patriots to me or interpret it (rationally, logically, truly) from anything I have said. In fact I have posted that I believe the Patriots are better than the Chargers right now. Here is the exact quote..."The Patriots, imo, are the best team in the AFC right now.
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...s-get-they-ll-tough-take-out.html#post1220352
And this quote.."From a Chargers' fan POV, it would be better for the Chargers if the Patriots were to miss the playoffs, and they beat them pretty handily this year. Cassel has really matured into a leader of that offense, they're going to be tough to beat again. They are playing better than anyone right now."
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...vens-prefer-anywhere-foxboro.html#post1222114

My reasoning is pretty simple, and that's what I wrote in the post. This is word for word what I wrote:

Thanks, I pride myself on using logic and reason (often using misdirection, misrepresentation, cherrypicking, logical fallacies, and abusiveness imo). 8-8 isn't as good as 11-5 except in some fantasyland.(absolutely never said that, not once, and, typically, was not even intimated to in the post your responded to))

It's not my fault that you're trying to backtrack now. You're the only one here that was more impressed by the Chargers season over the Patriots season.

It really is ludicrous how hard you are trying to put those words in my mouth. I never said anything of the sort, and don't believe it to be true. Keep trying though, you are just making yourself less credible the more you try. I could go through step by step of this conversation and make it even more obvious-I'm not going to take the time- but we both know I'm right.

 

[upstater1]

Pao:

Again, you misrepresent. Please tell us, what comment did I disown? No answer? Of course not.

What do you mean, no answer? Do you expect me to answer your post in real-time? Do you even know how a message board works? You seem to be a little brain-damaged if you expect me to answer your post in real-time, although given the quality (lack) of your posts, your latest doesn't surprise me at all. I wrote 11 wins is better than 8. You replied that this was convoluted. Then in the next post you said you didn't disagree that 11 wins is better than 8. This means you disowned your comment.

But I fully expect an irrelevent, convoluted explanation.

You're the only one here that can't understand a basic subject-verb-object sentence like "11 wins is better than 8." Not convoluted at all.

You will cherrypick something I said and make it about that or misrepresent what I have posted. Good luck with that.
Well my cherrypicking, misrepresenting friend, the fact is I didn't say what you wrote there was convoluted or that the Chargers were more deserving than the Patriots. So, again, your question "how is it convoluted" is typically irrelevent. And your question asking "Why did "you" say "my" post about the Patriots being more deserving of the Chargers is convoluted" misrepresents anything I have said. No matter how much you try, you can't attribute "8-8 is better than 11-5" or "8>11" or the Chargers are more deserving than the Patriots to me or interpret it (rationally, logically, truly) from anything I have said. In fact I have posted that I believe the Patriots are better than the Chargers right now. Here is the exact quote..."The Patriots, imo, are the best team in the AFC right now.

You write this undecipherable post above and you accuse me of being convoluted? I challenge anyone to decipher what you mean in this latest. Man, you are the pot calling the kettle black.

I only understood the last sentence you wrote. The rest is all gobbledygook.

As for the last sentence, if you agree the Patriots are better and their record is more deserving, then why would you contest a post in which I wrote the Patriots are better than the Chargers?

Are you schizophrenic? Which of you woke up this morning on got onto Patsfans.com?

I suggest therapy.

 

[pao]

Pao:

What do you mean, no answer? Do you expect me to answer your post in real-time? Do you even know how a message board works? You seem to be a little brain-damaged if you expect me to answer your post in real-time, although given the quality (lack) of your posts, your latest doesn't surprise me at all.

You are really too funny... and sad. You have lost this argument and so you resort to this ridiculous assertion. Disingenuous much?

I wrote 11 wins is better than 8. You replied that this was convoluted.

First it's an absolute falsehood that I replied that 11 wins is better than 8 is convoluted. Second, it is an absolute misrepresentation of anything that I have posted that I believe 8 wins is better than 11. Falsehoods and misrepresentations, your modus operandi.

Then in the next post you said you didn't disagree that 11 wins is better than 8. This means you disowned your comment.

How can I disown a comment I never made? Hmmm? I'll answer for you (since you don't seem to understand a rhetorical question). I can't disown a comment I never made. I never said that 11 wins isn't better than 8 wins AND I never said that your premise that 11 wins is better than 8 is convoluted. Missrepresentation exposed.

You're the only one here that can't understand a basic subject-verb-object sentence like "11 wins is better than 8." Not convoluted at all.

I submit that you are the only one here that is trying to convince others (or it could be you are trying to convince yourself) that I said that. You have not been, nor will you be, successful.

You write this undecipherable post above and you accuse me of being convoluted? I challenge anyone to decipher what you mean in this latest. Man, you are the pot calling the kettle black.

I like how you imitate me, it's very flattering.

I only understood the last sentence you wrote. The rest is all gobbledygook.

Right I'll make it easy. Many times in your posts you do one, or more, of the following...You respond out of context. You misrepresent what people say. You are disingenuous. You are abusive.

As for the last sentence, if you agree the Patriots are better and their record is more deserving, then why would you contest a post in which I wrote the Patriots are better than the Chargers?

Misrepresentation, again. Out of context, again. Disingenuous, again. Do you really want me to reconstruct the whole thing? I don't have as much time as you, but I'll do it if you want.

Are you schizophrenic? Which of you woke up this morning on got onto Patsfans.com? I suggest therapy.

The death throes of a dying argument.

 

[upstater1]

Pao:

You are really too funny... and sad. You have lost this argument and so you resort to this ridiculous assertion. Disingenuous much?

You wrote: No answer. What am I to think? Explain that to me. Unless you expect me to answer in real-time, how could you possibly come to the conclusion that I couldn't answer your question. Just a bizarre conclusion on your part, but I've come to expect it from your posts. Please explain to me why you wrote: no answer. Why did you do it? How else am I to interpret it?

First it's an absolute falsehood that I replied that 11 wins is better than 8 is convoluted.

Sure you did. The post is up here for all to see. I already quoted the post twice. Otherwise, if you were calling me convoluted for something I posted earlier, I asked you to please tell me what was so convoluted. You never did. I really have no idea what you're talking aqbout 90% of the time since your posts are, well, convoluted.

Second, it is an absolute misrepresentation of anything that I have posted that I believe 8 wins is better than 11. Falsehoods and misrepresentations, your modus operandi.

When I wrote 1 wins are better than 8, and you wrote that my post was convoluted, what else am I to conclude. Maybe you should learn to write more clearly since you're now disowning the previous statements and claiming you meant something else. If that's so, then tell me what's so convoluted about my posts in this thread. PatsinPittsburgh understood very well what I was saying. He was capable of comprehending. Why can't you?

I really feel sorry for you.