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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Phoenix111, Jun 21, 2007.

  1. Phoenix111

    Phoenix111 Banned

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    I don't know if anyone has seen it, but I picked up Pro Football Weekly's season preview issue for this year. Inside they rank players at each position generally about 1 through 20. After that they add some names who they think are the next best veterans at the postion that are no longer top tier players. A lot of the rankings are pretty sound in my opinion.

    However, Colvin really got shafted for what its worth. He did not make their top 22 list, and was also excluded from the next 10 veterans and the "best of the rest" list. I thought maybe they simply mistakenly passed over him or do some "experts" really have him valued that low I wonder. I think he deserves some credit for his pass rushing ability if nothing else. Aside from that he is one of the truly heady guys on the field and a solid leader off of it. He's undoubtedly better than some of the names actually mentiond, such as Clint Ingram and DeMorrio Williams.

    Regardless, just thought it was interesting. Also worth noting, they have AD at number 5 among OLB's.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2007
  2. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    though I generally like PFW, I wouldn't get too upset. Don't forget that it was PFW who, in the spring of 2001, stated unequivicably that the Patriots were the LEAST likely team in the NFL to get to a superbowl over the next 5 years. ;)

    BTW- there are others, including Paul Perrillo, who don't think as highly of Colvin as others here do. Perillo thinks that Colvin is vastly overrated and never really recovered the "burst" that made him so effective after his serious hip injury.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2007
  3. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Rosey didn't have his best year, but 55 TT and 8.5 sacks are nothing to sneeze at in a defense where the plays are shunted inside by guys like Rosey who have edge containment. Rosey was injured in 2003, slowly worked himself back into the line-up in 2004, he struggled initially in 2005 before settling down and having a strong second half of the season. His numbers last year aren't that far off his best while in Chicago, and that while being flip-flopped after Seau's injury. For what it's worth, I thought he wasn't as strong against the run last season compared to the second half of 2005. From what I've read he wasn't happy with his performance and has been working to improve during the off-season. I can live with that, after all if it takes players two years to fully recover from a knee injury, how long does it take someone to recover from an injury expected to end his career?
  4. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I find these publications only useful for entertainment purposes only. Most of these player rankings are popularity contests or based off of name recognition more than actual production.
  5. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's true.
    But "name recognition" generally occurs because of PAST production.

    Wouldn't one expect Rosevelt Colvin's name - at least - to be recognized?
    So i think the low regard by that publication remains.
  6. BB_dynasty

    BB_dynasty Rookie

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    I like PFW, but they are not always right, as it was pointed out earlier. And these rankings do not matter much, they are only for fans to look at during the boring times of the off-season.
  7. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Colvin's name has gotten eclipsed by other defensive players on this team. Ty Warren is finally getting his proper credit after two solid season. I think Colvin gets tagged as a pass rush specialist and doesn't get his proper due from most areas outside of New England.
  8. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    Colvin is 1 of our best D players.

    behind our front 3 :) ..maybe Samuel if he can do it more than once.

    i love his energy and hes improved a lot since when he first got back from his hip injury
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This discussion reminds me of the occasional thread we have about the effectiveness of Richard Seymour, invariably it seems to come back to that this Defense is so complex and does not give credibility to individual stats. Every player has a specific assignment in a specific formation, so to look at how many sacks a player has is not a very good barometer.. if there were stats at how many times a running play was contained, or how many times a player is double teamed etc. it may provide a different story.. many times after a game #93 does not even show up in the box score, but at closer look he is playing the edge or is double or triple teamed, thus allowing Warren and Wilfork more of an advantage.

    I am sure Colvin is effected by his injury, any may have lost a step, but to exclude him from this list is a an oversight in a world that loves big stats.
  10. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    GJA is right on the money. BB's genius (and lots of coaches, I suppose, but certainly BB is one of them,) is the realization that there's no single "silver bullet." You want your team to lead the league in sacks? Fine, blitz a safety on every play and get burned on pass plays. But you'll have your stat. A very simple example. Good coaches know there is one statistic that tells you if the D is doing its job: Opponents' points scored. BB's D is special in that it's not "special" in any stat-friendly way (or in a short bus way, for that matter.) The Pats still show a ton of different looks, with the emphasis tailored to the specific opponent.

    Anyway enough stating the obvious. Sacks are great things, as are interceptions... but more than anything you should look at them as indicators of the little things that beg quantification. If you really are actually causing those int.s, people are afraid to throw your way, which is huge. If you're a sack-creating beast, you're likely going to rattle a QB -- but come on. Colvin could do it once every 2 games.... not much. And a guy that does it about once a game, or even more? That's fine, if it goes along with a skill set that stops the run and the short pass... a QB with poise goes to outlet receivers/TE when he sees you coming and nullifies you (or even just takes his 1 or 2 negative plays and plays through it.) Then what happens on his other 30 throws?

    Stats are fun for comparing meaningless sub-components in an abstract way, which is a whole nother sport, called fantasy football. They also point to the underlying material you have to work with, in terms of the actual games.

    To put it in BB terms... "well you know, Rosey can do some things, a lot of different things, and anytime a guy can do those things you try to use all of them so that as a unit, you know, there are more things you can do...."

    I would even say its often fruitless to even make the comparisons - so and so is the best such and such in the league, etc. I can go so far as tiers but after that? I guess I'd most respect something like a coaches' poll: after those hundreds of hours of film, which DE would you want the most? Because those coaches would look at the skill set and say "oh my God, what I could do in this scheme with this guy at DE" (or LB, or FS... etc.)


    PFnV
  11. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Couldn't agree more. If BB saw Rosie they way PFW does, he'd have waived him. That he remains with fairly substantial cap hits tells me all I need to know. We don't hear it that often but the team keeps their own stats based on what they see on coaches tape (and likely their understanding of what a player was supposed to do in a given situation). And while some in the media even have access to those kinds of resources, they still don't necessarily know what they are looking for or at relative to the system. And at the end of the day, how effectively or efficiently you perform within yours is all that really matters.

    Every time I see the debates about LB's start up and Lewis is being touted in the top of that mix, I see those two INT's he cost his teamates in the playoff game against Indy and I think you couldn't pay me enough....

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