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Pro Football Weekly ranks Dean Pees the 23rd best DC

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just stumbled upon this where they ranked all 32 DCs. Here is what they say about Pees:

    ProFootballWeekly.com - Ranking the defensive coordinators

    I'm not the biggest Pees fan, but I think this rating is a bit harsh.
  2. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Re: Profootball Weekly ranks Dean Pees the 23rd best DC

    That is harsh. 5th in points allowed deserves a little better than 23rd. You lose most of your veteran leadership in Harrison, Vrabel, Bruschi, Seymour and you best LB for 4 games. C'mon.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  3. FU!TomJ

    FU!TomJ Rookie

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    Re: Profootball Weekly ranks Dean Pees the 23rd best DC

    Agreed...what's the basis for this?
  4. Patriots2001

    Patriots2001 Rookie

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    I think this defense is one really good pash rusher away from being a potentially a great defense.We need a play maker a la Julius Peppers or a Dwight Freeny type player..
  5. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    Think a big thumper type ILB should be high on the list as well. Other than that, I'd say the D is in excellent shape considering all the losses over the past few years. Rodney, Brrruuuuuu, Seymour, Asante, Vrabel.... Amazing we haven't had a losing season during the rebirth of this d. At this point, I'd say they're learning to walk. Maybe they gel together and make a playoff run, but I'd be satisfied with a street fight win over Balt and respectable performance in SD. They go any farther than SD and I'll be ecstatic.
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Plus, who is their scout? Up until the Texans game the other day, we'd gone back to a primarily base 3-4 D ever since Mayo has been back.
  7. PatsChamp88

    PatsChamp88 Rookie

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    Funny list don't think I can take it too seriously..
  8. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    Pees has an impossible task. Try to win games with a defense that

    has fallen apart due to inaction by BB/Pioli.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  9. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Give me a freakin' break.
  10. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x Rookie

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    #1 in virtually every category, but still #11?

    Does that mean that PFW think that the personnel is so outstanding they can overcome a mediocre coordinator to be the best in the league?

    I think this list isn't based on much other than a dartboard.

  11. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Defensive players drafted by Pats still on roster:

    2002 Green
    2003 Warren
    TBC
    2004 Wilfork
    2005 Sanders
    2006 -------
    2007 Meriweather
    2008 Mayo
    Wheatley
    Crable
    Wilhite
    2009 Chung
    Brace
    Butler
    McKenzie
    Pryor

    Since 2002....8 drafts....15 drafted D players still on roster....5 are starters (4 1st rounders and a 4th)
    Wilfork
    Warren
    Sanders....calling him a starter....
    Meriweather
    Mayo

    Green and Wilhite are essentialy 12th and 13th men

    13 active players / 2 players are injured reserve...McKenzie and Crable

    BLEAK ......middle of the decade drafting was barren....the numbers show that getting 5 starters in 8 years is BLEAK. Sure, Seymour and Samuels are no longer...and sorely missed
  12. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, I think when Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, and McGinest had their meeting with Belichick and Pioli and asked if they had to stay 29 forever or not, I think it was foolish on Belichick and Pioli's part to allow them to age.

    Seriously, the Pats won Super Bowls with Troy Brown, Randall Gay, Otis Smith, and Earthwind Mooreland playing CB. Bobby Hamilton was a nothing player before and after he played here. Roman Phifer's career was over when he came to the Patriots. Vrabel was a career back up when he came to the Pats.

    Romeo Crennel coached up a lot of players and some of them are worse than the talent the Pats have this year. Let's stop blaming the personnel department for everything.

    I don't think Pees is the 23rd best DC in the league, but I think Crennel might have gotten more out of this bunch.
  13. borg

    borg Rookie

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    I'm not a Pees fan...at all. That being said...Crennel had McGuinest, and younger guns Vrabel, TBC, Green, Seymour. Toss in Law and later Samuels..... Pees hasn't the same groceries ...not even close. Sure, some journey men made it onto the roster during the run...Probably didn't hurt that the front 7 could get after the QB and force INTs. Not happening now.
  14. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here are some of the things missing from your argument:

    In 2007, the Pats had only three picks before the sixth round. One of them stuck around as a starter on defense. The 2007 draft has been unfairly maligned because the Pats mostly had 6th and 7th round picks (6 in total) and 6th and 7th rounders are not going to stick around when the Pats put together a team that goes 18-1.

    In 2006, it was an offensive focused draft. The Pats first defensive player taken was in the sixth round.

    In 2005, the Pats had three defensive players drafted. One starts with the Pats today selected in the fourth round (Sanders) and another started for the Pats until last year (Hobbs).

    In 2003, the Pats drafted six defensive players. Four of them played key roles in the Super Bowl runs of 2003 and 2004. Two are Pro Bowlers. Two are still playing on the team.

    In 2002, the only defensive player drafted was Jarvis Green in the 4th round. Based on his draft value and contribution, he has been a great pick.

    You didn't include undrafted free agents on your list which would include Guyton as a starter.

    Sorry, but the Pats tend to use free agency to build the LBing corp and secondary.
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you remember, McGinest was considered washed up when Belichick and Crennel got here. So was Ty Law.
  16. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Overreaction by the doom & gloom side of the equation is just as bad as overreaction by the homers. Belioli didn't ignore the defensive side of the ball. Injuries and a couple of bad trades, along with retirements of elite/near elite players, are what has the team playing catch up on defense.
  17. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :confused:

    Ty Law was considered one of the very best cornerbacks in the league when Belichick and Co. arrived. He was only 26 at the time Belichick arrived and had already been an All-Pro.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  18. Ice Cold Bruschi

    Ice Cold Bruschi Rookie

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    Yeah I think its a little harsh considering statistically they're pretty good. He's ranked 6 places below the next lowest play off coach.

    I mean I'm done with Pees, the defense has been nothing but mediocre since he took over, granted it has been better than Mangini's one year at the helm but we need some new blood on the side lines, we should have promoted Dom Capers while we had him.
  19. West Philly Patriot

    West Philly Patriot Rookie

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    Yea this is just wrong dude
  20. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Law struggled in 1999 and 2000. I guess washed up is the wrong word, but many think he took the big contract after the 1998 season and got lazy. McGinest was considered washed up and Law was considered to have become a lazy fat cat.

    Law didn't turn it around until Romeo came here in 2001 (remember, he didn't come here until a year after Belichick took over) and even then, he started the year out slow and came on in the end.
  21. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is dead on about McGinest or do people forget the who do the Pats let go Slade or McGinest arguments of the early part of this decade along with McGinest's persistent back problems.

    I clarified the Law thing. Law wasn't washed up, but people questioned his heart and effort after getting a big deal.
  22. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am not a fan of Pees and definitely not a fan of the jets. Apparently, the PFW rankings have nothing to do with results. Both defensive coordinators did unbelkievably well with what they had to work with.

    That being said, I did disagree and do disagree with the defensive schemes that we had for much of the year. The chaos schemes (with 1-2 lineman until the last second) should have been used much, much more. I suspect (without any proof whatsoever) that Belichick stepped in and made the change, and then everything was much better.

    Pees is closer to the top five DC this year than to #23. He was asked to work with a new secondary, and little qaulity OLB linebackers. And working up to the season with what little he was given (e.g. Burgess and Ninkovich), Seymour was taken away.
  23. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    I don't know how you even begin to try to compile a list like this. I'd imagine the responsibilities of each DC varies quite a bit team to team. Take the Jets for example we know they have a great defense but how much credit to give give Rex and how much is the DC (don't even know his name to be honest).
  24. borg

    borg Rookie

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    The Thread has to do with Pees and what he has to work with....TODAY! From the 4 drafts 2004-2007, the Pats have 3 players on the roster playing D. Sure, one year was mostly O players, another year picks were used to trade for Moss and Welker...the point being that the lack of attention/failure in the middle years has caught up with the Pats.

    National Football League: NFL Draft History Full Draft - by Team
  25. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again, other than the d-line and CB, the Pats typically build the defense through free agency. The Pats have had three starters on the d-line drafted before this year and still have it on the d-line this year with Wright (an undrafted free agent and really a draft pick just not drafted) and Green filling that role.

    In fact, the only two LBs the Pats ever drafted/picked up as an undrafted free agent under Belichick are Mayo and Guyton.

    Go back to the 2001, 2003, and 2004 teams and tell me how many starters were drafted by Belichick or Pioli. Hamilton, Phifer, Harrison, Washington, Smith, and other were starters and/or key performers acquired by Belichick and Pioli and weren't draft picks. The Pats have a complicated defense and usually choose to go with veteran free agent talent over draft picks at certain positions.
  26. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For some reason, a lot of people here seem to equate only the draft with "attention/focus". In their eyes, free agency doesn't seem to exist. Bringing in players like Colvin, Seau and Thomas to play linebacker doesn't seem to count as "paying attention", for example.

    It's bizarre, and I've never really understood the mentality of it.
  27. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Polite terminology instead of stating how they suck/blow/underperform. Sure FA exists, and BB seems to believe it is better for other teams to develope players at certain positions and then throw large sums of money at them in FA. BB seemed to have better success in the past then he has had recently...on D. Burgess, Springs, Bodden, and Thomas are taking up $13.3 mill in this years cap space....IMO...Bodden is the only one that has delivered.
    Looking at the big picture, alot of money is tied up on the offensive side of the ball...of the top 11 paid players (2009 total cap charge), 8 are on offense. Trading away Seymour, your buddy, really tilted this comparison. Sure, money and results don't go hand in hand (AD anyone) but the Patriots changed their philosophy on deploying resources and you can read into the results.
  28. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    [soapbox]

    It's not polite terminology. It's a manner of ignoring reality. Looking at the gripes about the 2007 'draft' makes that pretty clear. The Patriots don't get all their players through the draft. That's true of almost every team in the NFL. Very few teams go the Steelers/Colts route, and with good reason.

    By the way, it's not the fault of the front office that Colvin went from top shelf to JAG almost on day 1 due to injury, that Bruschi suffered a stroke that made him a lesser player, that Thomas suffered injury in each of his first two seasons under contract, or that Wilson and Harrison suffered a series of trauma injuries (breaks, injuries due to cheap shots) that were outside the statistical norm.

    Yes, I think that the Seymour and Hobbs trades were terrible moves that have pretty clearly had a negative impact on the team's quality of play this season. Yes, I think that the team foolishly overpaid for Burgess. Yes, I think the team let Vrabel/Cassel go for too little in return (although I give it an overall pass as one friend doing another a "solid" to start his new career). However, to ***** about inaction is just asinine. Mistakes were made, but they were not due to inaction or a lack of attention: they were made because of poor thinking on the part of the front office.

    Despite what people on message boards for almost every team seem to think, coordinators really do tend to know what they are doing, bad players really do impact coaching decisions, injuries really do impact teams, owners really do tend to pull the trigger too quickly rather than too slowly, and teams like the Patriots remain on top because they generally do a superior job of procuring talent and coaching it up, and combine that with superior quarterback play. While the homers on boards need to realize that nobody is perfect, the complainers need to realize that, while nobody is perfect, the necessary codicil to that is that lack of perfection does not necessarily show complete incompetence. Even the greats screw up.

    Hell, the Patriots finished the season at 10-6 and, yet, had Welker not gone down with his injury, New England would still have been considered one of the Super Bowl favorites, even with all the mistakes the team made this year. That's not bad considering how much change has occurred in one season and how many mistakes were made during that time.

    [/soapbox]
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  29. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    I don't.

    Think about it: Would any other NFL team have hired him as DC when Bill did? And would any other NFL team hire him today, were he to become available?

    And to think that we could've kept Dom Capers instead...
  30. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with almost all your comments, except the implication that our OC knows what he is doing. Also, while I agree that we paid a lot for Burgess, bBelichick didn't have much choice but to overpay after the choices made in the draft and after he saw what he was able to secure in free agency (Ninkovich!).

    People do indeed need to understand that trades and free agency are often as important as the draft in filling roster holes. Certainly the acquisition of Bodden, Banta-Cain and McGowan were critical to our successes in 2009.



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