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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by PATSNUTme, Mar 30, 2009.

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  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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  3. FrreeeBird

    FrreeeBird Rookie

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    Ha! No Barwin in the first two rounds? Insane, dude has the best combination of measurables of any 3-4 OLB prospect by FAR, and he was very productive in his one year at DE.

    The hate for the bandwagon is understandable, but he's not falling to the third round.
  4. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

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    Monroe is a great player and if we get him he'd definitely be starting over everyone next year, maybe even this year.. But I think, if I follow his draft, there are players rated as high or higher in more critical positions.. And I don't mean positions we need to fill but positions that are hard to fill (ie OLB, DT, OG)..

    I like the next two picks.. But I rather see (following his draft) Maualuga and English or E. Brown..

    We'd be solid up the middle.. Something we are soft in..
  5. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    Hahahaha even after all of that, I would take 4 other OLB/DE over him.
    1) Brian Orakpo
    2) Everette Brown
    3) Aaron Maybin
    4) Larry English
    5) Conner Barwin

    The reason is because all of the four before Barwin have more potential as Pass Rushers, Barwin will probably be a better coverage man than all of the other 4 but I dont think he will have as many sacks. Everybody likes to compare Barwin to Vrabel. Vrabel was never one of the top 8 3-4 OLB in the league (except for 2 years ago). I think these top 4 have the potential to lead the league in sacks while still being above average coverage men.

    Back to the Mock. I like it alot but with some of the names still on the board after us I dont think Knowshon would be my top choice but I still think he will be a great back in the NFL. Good for our system as well.
  6. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Definitely some unusual picks but PFW has done well even since Buchsbaum died, Nawrocki is no amateur. Regarding their picks for the Patiots the last two years, no-one here would be crying if we had DRC and Beason over Mayo and Meriweather; they were good and reasonable picks.
  8. Tippecanoe

    Tippecanoe Rookie

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    Interestingly, PFW did have Pats picking Meriweather w/ the 28th pick that year.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ah, I saw them take Beason for us but forgot we had two #1 until we traded one.

    Yeah, I would take PFW as seriously as you can take any mock out there.
  10. jefmblrd

    jefmblrd Rookie

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    I like Pro Football Weekly and read it all the time, but I have to say that I can't see the Patriots drafting this way. No way they take Moreno in the first round and although they might take Matthews at 34, I just don't see it happening.

    I know I've been surprised by the Patriots before: I didn't see them drafting Mankins or Watson in the first round, but I just can't see this happening.
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't expect a RB either but Nolan did say it was a value pick so he's kind of off the hook in terms of our RB situation - and if a team can afford a value pick this year it's the Patriots with all our picks.
  12. jefmblrd

    jefmblrd Rookie

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    I do see your point, and he is a good player, but there are some quality OTs that might be a value in that spot as well-as long as there isn't a run like last year although there is a good chance of that...ILB, OLB as well. I know BB takes best player available, but knowing that there'll probably be a good value RB to take later in the draft, I still don't see it.
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I generally value Nolan Nawrocki's view, but there seem to be a lot of things about this draft which are surprising. Aside from Barwin's absence - like him or not, I think at this time his absence from the first 2 rounds can be called surprising - Mark Sanchez falling past Josh Brown to #18, Everette Brown falling to #30 and William Beatty to #54 seem quite extreme, at the very least. I can't see the Pats passing on all of Larry English, Sean Smith and Beatty at #47. Moreno is a great back and may be good value at #23, but I have a hard time seeing us going that route with our current stable of backs and other needs. Massaquoi at #58 is a reach, especially when he has us taking WR but passing on Hakeem Nicks at #48. And finally, Donald Washington in the 2nd round? That's one of the biggest stretches I've seen in a mock by a supposedly credible source. Washington has nice athleticism (the highest vertical at the combine) but he's raw, has off-field issues, and is generally considered a late-round prospect.
  14. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    I agree 100%. Value is huge in thsi draft.
  15. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    I think the whole thing explodes and goes to the garbage can with the 3rd pick..........I can't see pioli coming from years and years of this organization to draft an OL at #3........unless curry is already gone....but he isn't

    worst mock to date
  16. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I might even put Raji at #12 in that category, and Jarron Gilbert out of day 1. And explain to me how the Colts take a running back with Ziggy Hood still on the board? Toss in Everette Brown's plummet and it starts to look like a systematic undervaluing of DLs -- which never happens on draft day.
  17. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    I can see Pioli trading out of #3, IF he can find a dance partner, especially if Detroit passes on Stafford.
  18. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not sure I buy that, I understand that the Patriots never took at OT near as high as this when Pioli was here but a top LT is a very legitimate way to spend a top five pick.
  19. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yep, seems reasonable to me, too. And BB famously said he would have taken Robert Gallery at #1 overall.
  20. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    Under BB both times the Pats were near this high in the first round, they went with defense both times.
  21. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Two isn't exactly a large sample size :)
  22. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Relax Barwin groupies. The draft is still over 3 weeks away and there will be 2 or 3 other mocks to validate your love. I think that Nolan will have him ranked as a solid second rounder by his final mock or rankings.

    Nolan does watch entire game films over and over a does not watch the high light vids that don't include the low lights. But he can be wrong about players as any scout can be.
  23. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You should at least be happy, as he has the Pats taking Matthews at 34.

    As I said earlier in this thread, I generally respect Nawrocki's opinion. I will be curious to see how his draft evolves.
  24. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    Got to wonder how Gallery's career may have turned out with a different set of coaches and a talented roster?
  25. TealSox

    TealSox Guest

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    Considering the Chiefs have $15 mil. tied up in Matt Cassel this year and Todd Haley is a former offensive coordinator, I think Pioli will make an exception and take (arguably) the best offensive tackle in the draft.
  26. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that the minimum most of us want on Day One is a quality OLB and a quality safety. Matthews and Johnson certainly fill the bill.

    I would certainly be surprised by a RB and WR on Day One. They are certainly upgrades over Green-Ellis and Aiken at their positions.

    So, my bottom line is that TWO needs would have been met and two other positions upgraded. All in all, a good day's work.

    I would certainly have preferred a DE or OT at 23 and an OG at 58.
    ===========================

    I would go into Day Two expecting to get OL help at 89/97/124.
  27. DocE

    DocE Rookie

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    I don't like this draft at all, but it does illustrate a line of thinking that is compelling to me.

    Assuming the Patriots keep picks 23 and 34 there seems to be much more value in taking a more pure BPA stance at 23 and then looking to the OLB position at 34. In this mock draft, Larry English, Connor Barwin, and Michael Johnson would all still be on the board at 34. In most mocks, you see 2-3 of the 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB group still available at 34.

    The couter point to this is the Patriots likely will have vastly different grades on the 3-4 OLB group than what's published by various "scouting" services that we have access too. While English, Barwin, Mathews et al may have similar grades across most "scouting" services, the Patriots will likely see one of them as top 15 talent, another as a mid 2nd rounder, and maybe have one as a mid rounder.

    Knowing how the 2 rounds play out in Nolan's mind I would do this:

    23. Percy Harvin
    34. Louis Delmas
    47. William Beatty
    58. Connor Barwin
  28. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Donald Washington in the 2nd round might be the worst single pick I've seen in any mock so far. He has a better chance of going undrafted than on day one. The Dolphins follow that up with Austin Collie with their other second round pick? If Parcells does a draft like that, somebody take away the keys and put him in a home.

    And given who's on the board, I don't get the Patriots picks at all.

    #23: Moreno while Brown's on the board? Even if BB wants to go RB, I think Donald Brown or Beanie Wells is more likely.

    #34: BB's going to take a player who was unproductive in his one year starting and is a conversion project when he has his pick of interior linemen, safeties, better OLBs in English and Johnson, Beatty, Nicks, etc?

    #47: I'd like to think that if BB really wants a safety, he'd trade up to get Delmas before he reaches for Johnson with the next pick, who has no in-the-box skills and is much worse in coverage than Meriweather.

    #58: Massaquoi? Really? We're going to use a second round pick on a guy who's upside is Jabbar Gaffney, and who's going to have a very tough time getting open in the NFL?

    This has to be the worst Patriots draft I've seen yet.
  29. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Knowing that you can get Delmas/Beatty/Barwin at 34, 47 and 58, the 23 pick becomes a freebie. Moreno, Harvin, Nicks, Maualuga, Gilbert and Ayers are all options who are available at 23.

    But in real life we wouldn't know that, and wouldn't possibly wait on all of those guys. In reality I'd take Barwin at 23, grab Beatty at 34 when he was unexpectedly still available, and trade up from 47 to get Delmas - and I would be absolutely thrilled with that result. The absolute "best case" realistic scenario I could see with Nawrocki's draft would be something like trading 23 and 58 to the Giants for 29 and 45, taking Barwin at 29, Beatty at 34, and Delmas at 45. That would leave #47 left to trade, or, following his draft, to use on Hakeem Nicks (going #49) who would be a terrific WR for us. Barwin/Beatty/Delmas/Nicks would be absolutely sick. Without the trade we could still do Barwin at 23, Beatty at 34, trade #89 and 58 to move up to around #43 to grab Delmas, and then use #47 on Nicks or trade it. Either way, we would end up with 4 players whom I consider solid 1st round values.

    But of course, there's no way it would ever happen.
  30. makoute

    makoute Rookie

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    Everette Brown at 30 does seem unlikely.
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