Price: Camp battle preview

[Box_O_Rocks]

Christopher Price | The Hot List: The Battle Is Joined

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

RIGHT TACKLE: Nick Kaczur vs. Sebastian Vollmer. Call it The Big Canadian vs. The Big German. Kaczur is the incumbent, having started 29 regular-season games at right tackle the last two seasons. But the 6-foot-4, 315-pounder out of Brantford, Ontario could be pushed this year by the 6-foot-8, 315-pound Vollmer, who grew up in Germany and blossomed into an All-Conference USA tackle while at Houston.

Hey Box, I seem to recall some folks saying last year, that Kaczur might be better inside. Being that im not a fan of Yates, and Neal has had some injury concerns, maybe move him inside. Thats assuming Vollmer could take RT in TC. Whats your thinking on this Sir Box?

 

[Mike the Brit]

That's another excellent article, Chris -- right on the money!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Hey Box, I seem to recall some folks saying last year, that Kaczur might be better inside. Being that im not a fan of Yates, and Neal has had some injury concerns, maybe move him inside. Thats assuming Vollmer could take RT in TC. Whats your thinking on this Sir Box?

Light - three year starter at Purdue.
Mankins - three year starter at Fresno State.
Koppen - three year starter at Boston College.
Kaczur - four year starter at Toledo.
LeVoir - three year starter at Notre Dame.
O'Callaghan - three year starter ay California.
Britt - four year starter at Alabama.
Hochstein - two+ year starter at Nebraska.
Yates - two year starter at Texas A&M.
Connelly - four year starter at Southeast Missouri State.
Johnson - three year starter at Wisconsin.
Wendell - two year starter at Fresno State.
Neal - World Class Wrestler.

With the exception of Neal, you see a pretty clear trend. The starters have at least three years of starting experience in college, the one non-wrestling starter who has more than three years comes from the smallest program. The reserve Tackles are all three+ year starters.

Vollmer is a two year starter. He appears to have greater athletic skill to work with than Britt & O'Callaghan, and maybe LeVoir, but he needs seasoning. I believe he's intended to be Dante's LT of the future, if he can't make it at LT he should work okay at RT (so he's not a wasted pick), but I expect him to spend this season in development unless he's forced into the line-up by injury. His three fellow rookie OL: Orhnberger just less than 3 years as a starter, Bussey 3 year starter, Porter All-American wrestler.

If you'll notice, with the exception of Vollmer and the wrestlers, the OL with less than three years of starting experience came from major programs or Fresno State (BB's old OL coach and a team that plays major programs for it's non-conference games) - and in Vollmer's exception, his OL coach was the same man who developed Kaczur at Toledo (a known quantity Scar obviously trusts).

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Light - three year starter at Purdue.
Mankins - three year starter at Fresno State.
Koppen - three year starter at Boston College.
Kaczur - four year starter at Toledo.
LeVoir - three year starter at Notre Dame.
O'Callaghan - three year starter ay California.
Britt - four year starter at Alabama.
Hochstein - two+ year starter at Nebraska.
Yates - two year starter at Texas A&M.
Connelly - four year starter at Southeast Missouri State.
Johnson - three year starter at Wisconsin.
Wendell - two year starter at Fresno State.
Neal - World Class Wrestler.

With the exception of Neal, you see a pretty clear trend. The starters have at least three years of starting experience in college, the one non-wrestling starter who has more than three years comes from the smallest program. The reserve Tackles are all three+ year starters.

Vollmer is a two year starter. He appears to have greater athletic skill to work with than Britt & O'Callaghan, and maybe LeVoir, but he needs seasoning. I believe he's intended to be Dante's LT of the future, if he can't make it at LT he should work okay at RT (so he's not a wasted pick), but I expect him to spend this season in development unless he's forced into the line-up by injury. His three fellow rookie OL: Orhnberger just less than 3 years as a starter, Bussey 3 year starter, Porter All-American wrestler.

If you'll notice, with the exception of Vollmer and the wrestlers, the OL with less than three years of starting experience came from major programs or Fresno State (BB's old OL coach and a team that plays major programs for it's non-conference games) - and in Vollmer's exception, his OL coach was the same man who developed Kaczur at Toledo (a known quantity Scar obviously trusts).

Thank you Sir Box :eat3:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thank you Sir Box :eat3:

What! It made sense? :ugh: I'm slipping.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

What! It made sense? :ugh: I'm slipping.

well, sorta

You did skip the question on whether or not you think Kaczur would be better inside. Try to do better next time :singing:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

well, sorta

You did skip the question on whether or not you think Kaczur would be better inside. Try to do better next time :singing:

Kaczur is an option inside, but I thought last season was his best season at RT. He was a four year LT at Toledo and started most of 2005 as Light's injury replacement before moving over to RT. He's had to retrain himself to do things right-sided, sounds easy, but if you do things one way for five years, then have to do it another way - at NFL speeds - it's going to be difficult.

I've said this before, but my unarmed combat instructor taught that it took 2,000 repetitions to get a move locked into your muscle memory. There were 950 snaps on defense last season, so let's call it 1,000 snaps a season for offense or defense, that's roughly two years of full speed game snaps (and that's not breaking down pass vs run, which would be about 50/50, so arguably you are looking at four years to get 2,000 pass drop game snaps, but practice reps would speed that up).

unoriginal may wish to weigh in on Kaczur's run blocking and whether he's the best option to move inside to RG if Neal gets hurt, but I'm projecting no change in the starters on the line. Depending on LeVoir's health, he and Vollmer would seem to have the inside edge at Tackle. Bussey would probably be the G/T option for the Practice Squad. C/G reserves are a lot harder to project.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Kaczur is an option inside, but I thought last season was his best season at RT.

unoriginal may wish to weigh in on Kaczur's run blocking and whether he's the best option to move inside to RG if Neal gets hurt, but I'm projecting no change in the starters on the line. Depending on LeVoir's health, he and Vollmer would seem to have the inside edge at Tackle. Bussey would probably be the G/T option for the Practice Squad. C/G reserves are a lot harder to project.

Agreed. Im not one of the posters who thinks we need a new OL. I think they will be fine, and have no problem with Kaczur at RT. My main problem is the interior depth on the line, which looks to be better this year. But heck, what do i know I have no technical knowledge of football. I merely use my eyes, and my eyes like this OL (even though im usually watching through beer goggles)

 

[DaBruinz]

I think that Hochstein will make the roster, but as a utility player. I think he'll see more snaps as the short yardage FB than he will on the offensive line.

I expect that Ohrnberger will be the one getting snaps at RG if Neal goes down. However, we could have a situation similar to 2004 where, after Compton went down, the Pats moved Woody to RG and inserted Koppen at center. The same could happen this year if Koppen continues to get manhandled by the likes of Jenkins and Stroud.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Kaczur is an option inside, but I thought last season was his best season at RT. He was a four year LT at Toledo and started most of 2005 as Light's injury replacement before moving over to RT. He's had to retrain himself to do things right-sided, sounds easy, but if you do things one way for five years, then have to do it another way - at NFL speeds - it's going to be difficult.

I've said this before, but my unarmed combat instructor taught that it took 2,000 repetitions to get a move locked into your muscle memory. There were 950 snaps on defense last season, so let's call it 1,000 snaps a season for offense or defense, that's roughly two years of full speed game snaps (and that's not breaking down pass vs run, which would be about 50/50, so arguably you are looking at four years to get 2,000 pass drop game snaps, but practice reps would speed that up).

unoriginal may wish to weigh in on Kaczur's run blocking and whether he's the best option to move inside to RG if Neal gets hurt, but I'm projecting no change in the starters on the line. Depending on LeVoir's health, he and Vollmer would seem to have the inside edge at Tackle. Bussey would probably be the G/T option for the Practice Squad. C/G reserves are a lot harder to project.

Box,

I thought your posts were very informative. My suspicion all along is that Ohrnberger was drafted to be a Center/Guard, with the emphasis on Center. He has lots of interior experience at Penn State and was always the reserve Center and taking practice snaps there. But he was too talented not to start and make All Big Ten several times at Guard. He is shorter, and is quick and unusually strong for his size. I would think that that lends itself to Center play.

I am not enamored with Yates abilities, and Russ Hochstein is getting old. I think he is older than Neal, if not in physical age then in playing age. I have seen no slippage in Neal's play; indeed he is still learning Football technique, and improving on just relying on his native strength, balance, hand-play and quickness that made him a Champion wrestler.

I thought that it was unlikely that Dante or Bill would by-pass a possible starting Left Offensive Tackle in the second round, in William Beatty, to draft a mere Right Offensive Tackle. Beatty may never be able to produce a left handed running game, but he seems to be a pretty quick-footed typical LOT candidate. Good Pass Block, Poor Run Block player is the description assigned to most LOTs including Beatty.

Volmer holds out the prospect of BOTH Good Pass Block plus Good Run Block that makes for a "balanced" and always superior Offensive line.
I concur with your prognostication about Bussey as a PS G/T project for 2010 or 2011, before displacing Hochstein. I still think Nick would be a superior Guard.

 

[bbell31]

the steelers and colts game just makes me want 2 vomit---oline needed obvious upgrades---we have 2 draft a superstar olinemen n nxt years draft---i will give them greatly deserved credit n the running game tho

 

[BradyManny]

Good stuff from Price - as usual.

The Vollmer - Kazcur stuff caught me by surprise a little. I, personally, would be worried with Vollmer being the first guy off the bench in case of an injury to one of our Tackles, but maybe I shouldn't be. It certainly would free things up if he was as good as advertised and we didn't have to keep at least one of O'Cal, Levoir on the roster. Considering how tough roster spots will be to come by for this team, it might be helpful.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Light - three year starter at Purdue.
Mankins - three year starter at Fresno State.
Koppen - three year starter at Boston College.
Kaczur - four year starter at Toledo.
LeVoir - three year starter at Notre Dame.
O'Callaghan - three year starter ay California.
Britt - four year starter at Alabama.
Hochstein - two+ year starter at Nebraska.
Yates - two year starter at Texas A&M.
Connelly - four year starter at Southeast Missouri State.
Johnson - three year starter at Wisconsin.
Wendell - two year starter at Fresno State.
Neal - World Class Wrestler.

With the exception of Neal, you see a pretty clear trend. The starters have at least three years of starting experience in college, the one non-wrestling starter who has more than three years comes from the smallest program. The reserve Tackles are all three+ year starters.

Vollmer is a two year starter. He appears to have greater athletic skill to work with than Britt & O'Callaghan, and maybe LeVoir, but he needs seasoning. I believe he's intended to be Dante's LT of the future, if he can't make it at LT he should work okay at RT (so he's not a wasted pick), but I expect him to spend this season in development unless he's forced into the line-up by injury. His three fellow rookie OL: Orhnberger just less than 3 years as a starter, Bussey 3 year starter, Porter All-American wrestler.

If you'll notice, with the exception of Vollmer and the wrestlers, the OL with less than three years of starting experience came from major programs or Fresno State (BB's old OL coach and a team that plays major programs for it's non-conference games) - and in Vollmer's exception, his OL coach was the same man who developed Kaczur at Toledo (a known quantity Scar obviously trusts).

More gems than rocks in that box, Box.

 

[sdh7711]

Good stuff from Price - as usual.

The Vollmer - Kazcur stuff caught me by surprise a little. I, personally, would be worried with Vollmer being the first guy off the bench in case of an injury to one of our Tackles, but maybe I shouldn't be. It certainly would free things up if he was as good as advertised and we didn't have to keep at least one of O'Cal, Levoir on the roster. Considering how tough roster spots will be to come by for this team, it might be helpful.

a couple tackles by the name of Light and Kazcur did ok when they got pressed into work as rookies. If Vollmer is good as advertised I think hes the main backup RT.

I am pretty positive Al, Hoch, Britt, Voll make backups and I think they may carry ten OL. the question is who is number 10...Yates LeVoir or O'Callahan? Yes thats right I left Ohren....I think him and Bussey go to the PS. I am thinking Yates still sticks around.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

The mid rounds of the draft are used for depth. They don't have to be starters to be successful picks.

Bill traded Hobbs for picks in order to select: a Center/Guard(Ohrnberger) and a Guard/Tackle(Bussey). These two guys can provide depth for all five Oline positions. Both have loads of experience on big college programs. Combine them with Vollmer as reserve RT/LT and it seems clear Bill wants youth behind his veteran offensive line.

If the starters and rooks are healthy after camp, that leaves one maybe two spots left. I think some old backups will get cut. Cough! Yates. Cough!

Edit: The rookies wouldn't clear waivers. A rival would claim them for scouting purposes at the very least.