Welcome to PatsFans.com

Pretty good offensive play calling and execution, don't you think?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATSNUTme, Nov 19, 2006.

  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    15,133
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    I thought the play calling and exection today was very good today.
    And, I thought that Caldwell proved that he could be a decent reciever for us. A decent #2.

    And, Gaffney continues to impress considering we got him off the gabage heap.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2006
  2. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,525
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    As I posted in another thread, I loved some of the personell groupings today.

    Faulk and Maroney in the backfield.

    Faulk wide right with Marone and Brown in the backfield (how long until they hand it off to Troy or a direct-snap to him).

    Not a new one but a TE wide with a wr/rb in the slot.

    This will allow them to run some more creative plays later in the year and give the playoff teams something to look at.
  3. PatsFanDan

    PatsFanDan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Personel groupings aside, what worries me is we have still not beaten a great defense.

    As someone pointed out in another thread, the Chicago game is key. If the Pats offense can put up some points against the Bears, it would make me feel a whole lot better about things.

    I don't expect the Bears offense to put up a lot of points on the Pats. The real key is that the offense plays well. The offense has not played well against good defenses this season even in games they have won. And with all the injuries to the secondary, the offense needs to start carrying some of the load of winning these games.

    Yes, they put up 35 today but against a very bad D and had Favre been on his game, no way would it have been a blowout today. He was awful today, missing receivers long, short....you name it. The D is not as good as it was during the SB runs. The offense needs to step up against a solid D and prove they can put up some points.
  4. kptmorgan04

    kptmorgan04 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I unfortunately didnt get to see the entire game all the way through as I was battling for the remote with 3 other guys on my ship who all wanted to see their teams play..... but from what I did see, I was as happy as the Minn game. they mixed things up well and seemed to be doing some different things. I have figured all along that the offense wouldnt be a complete product until a week or so from now, so we will see what happens, but no one can say it isnt progress in the right direction
  5. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,730
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Well, NUT, it was an improvement, but not back to form yet. I have the hope that the team is finally out of preseason mode and the coaches are reacting to the situation on the field. I saw a lot more of that this week, especially on the offensive side of the ball, like you said. I saw adjustments to what the d was giving them, etc.

    The biggest downside I still see on the offense is Brady. I still think he has a small case of Pay-a-ton,Dread-so itis. He still seems to be trying to win games with each and every play by himself. This seems to result in Tom making mental mistakes, holding on to the ball too long to find the long ball receiver, taking sacks, and forcing the ball into coverage resulting in picks. His strength has always been his game management and sense of time. Look,look,look, throw. Even if it is to the cheerleaders. Now he isn't doing that any more. And the results have been mixed, at best. His surrounding cast is as good as its ever been. He needs to relax and do his job and stop worrying about everyone else doing theirs.
  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    15,133
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    What does any of that have to do with the play calling today??:eek:

    It looks as if you need an eye laxative to clear up your ****y outlook.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2006
  7. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,338
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    I thought it was pretty much the same as we've seen the past few weeks. The new personnel groupings were good, but they still try to force the ball to the tight end too much. Jackson is in there more, but I don't understand with his speed and priduction in college why he's not mroe productive in the pros. Are they finished with screens? And no draws either? I thought the play calling was predictable at times.
  8. PatsFanDan

    PatsFanDan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Sorry, I will dumb it down for you.

    The play calling really doesn't matter if the offense can't execute against a solid defense.

    In case you didn't notice, the offense has had some difficutly executing the plays that were called against good defenses. I have a hard time getting excited over putting up 35 points against a terrible GB defense in a game where their QB couldn't hit the bronze side of a barn.

    We definitely saw some different looks today on offense. But the bottom line was the execution was better.

    IMO, the Pats did not lose the previous two games because of play calling and I definitely agree with anyone that thinks the Pats should have ran the ball more in the 2nd half against the Colts. The point is both the Colts and Jets were winnable games if the offense had not made so many mistakes.

    So I wasn't trying to derail your thread. I guess the point is........execution is as important as the play calling. But go ahead and flame away as you feel necessary.
  9. SVN

    SVN Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    22,514
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0

    when pass are completed with no tipped balls for interceptions and D doesnt commit stupid penalties on 3rd downs..the off play calling is always good :)
    when it fails...mc daniels is a !@#$$,we got outcoached etc etc
  10. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    15,133
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    I still missed the part as to what all that has to do with the play calling TODAY.

    All the stuff that you have mentioned has been given a full retal exam on this board over and over again.

    No flaming here, just trying keep things on topic.
  11. PatsFanDan

    PatsFanDan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Sorry....I thought the title of the thread was Pretty good offensive play calling and execution, don't you think?

    I guess I misread it. Silly me.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2006
  12. BradyisGod

    BradyisGod Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,051
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Our 3 time Super Bowl winning, 2 time Super Bowl MVP, QB just can't get a break with anyone around here. He was doing what you suggested at the beginning of the year, and all anyone around here could say was "he looks pretty off". Now, he tries, and not always with the best result, to take the team on his back, and he gets criticized for that.

    When are you people going to realize that the game just ISN'T that easy, and that the NFL system is designed for people not to excel ALL THE TIME.

    With the trash that has been thrown his way lately, I'm starting to wonder if Tom will stick around after his next contract. I sure wouldn't if I had to put up with ingrates like you.
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Tough jury. Would that form you're looking for be his 2005 or the teams 2004? I think what today reinforced is Brady is the least of this offenses worries. If the line does a decent job in protection and run blocking, and as a result (in addition to their own effort and determination and focus) the receivers get decent seperation and the RB's find some consistent holes - we're in business. It all starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball. This isn't the most talented receiving corps in the league, any more than we field the most talented secondary. But if/when the lines do their job, both are sufficient.

    And unfortunately in Tommy's position if everyone else isn't doing their job he can't do his. 2001 should have taught us that much. He doesn't have to be surrounded by a galaxy of stars, but guys around him have to hold up their end reasonably - including coaches and the FO - in order for him to lead them farther than many of his peers can lead teams full of pro bowl weapons.
  14. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I agree with you for the most part. Thanks for keeping it real. ;)
  15. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,241
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -1

    I also liked when they had Maroney at QB and Brady lined up in the slot. :D

    And, of course, any time Vrabel's out as a TE, that's a plus in my book. [Note to #12: that pass you threw doesn't count as satisfying Vrabel's need for 'crack'. Another hit is needed, and the sooner the better. :) ]
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Edited your quote for brevity and for clarity. I think most of us generally see a different game than you see. Could have just bare bones edited it to redundant McDaniels sucks, but it puts your comments into better context when people grasp that you spew vitriol like this about whomever our OC is even when you didn't even see most of a game. And it's always sour grapes when a 35 point win isn't good enough.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2006
  17. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,730
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Ok, MLR and BIG, I'm gonna reply to both of ya at once because the server is crawling again. I sure hope things come back up to speed soon.

    Mo, easy there, I said that they did look better today in play selection and overall coaching. Not quite up to 2003/2004 form, but getting better. Yeah, I am aware of the change at O.C. since, and that was my point. I was posting my opinion of the play calling based on that comparison. I've written many times during the early season that the play calling looked like the team was in extended preseason mode. Today looked like they had a real game plan in place and adjusted to what Green Bay's defense showed them. A real improvement, but the proof will be in the pudding next week there.

    To both... Brady has been holding the ball and taking sacks this year. That is not characteristic of him. He always was the first one to fire one off into the dirt or at the cheerleaders if there was no one open on his progression. Not this year. He also rarely forced the ball into coverage. He has done much more of that last and this year. He is trying to carry too much of the burdon on his shoulders. Some of you may like that, but it doesn't fit in this system and is often counter-productive. This is not a knock. I admire his determination. Its just an observation. Perhaps as he gets more comfortable with his new team mates he will do less of these things. But if you look at this season objectively, you would have to admit that he has tried to do too much himself and has had mixed results.
  18. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Exactly. I can't think of a tougher job than being Brady. You get booed at home by the most ungrateful fans in the NFL, and blamed at fanboy websites, while playing in the worst media enviroment in the country, and being the QB of the most calculating front office in the country. Brady gets killed in many games, with inconsistent protection, a revolving door of semi-talented or old WRs and RBs, and coaching changes, while taking less money under the unfulfilled pretense that the team would spend the money on talent to surround Brady with; plays injuried, never misses a game, wins us superbowls, doesn't do a million stupid commercials, and needs to learn on the fly how to lead a completely new group of WRs, with a running game which is mysteriously MIA for long stretches of time and a coaching staff that seems occasionally unwilling to make game time adjustments.

    Brady is fine. He is not the problem, and never was. Put him on Manning's team last year and he would have won the superbowl, IMO. With a lot less fanfare and stupid commercials.
  19. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    17,518
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    NEM wants us to use more play action while never running the ball.

    Pretty much sums up our problems with play calling.:D
  20. PatsSteve1

    PatsSteve1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Patriots win it's good play calling. Patriots lose it's bad play calling. What could be simpler than that?
  21. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    17,518
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    I agree with a previous poster. This play calling thing is way overblown.

    If the Patriots start executing crisply and efficiently they will win.

    Belichick puts the game plan in during the week. If he catches someone napping like he did the Vikes, all the plays are counter to the defense they game planned.

    Brady changes half the damn plays anyway. The OC could take the day off and nobody would notice if the execution was good.

    Play calling is probably the most over rated aspect of pro football.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2006
  22. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    17,518
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Ben Watsons TD. Horrible call, he was totally covered, Brady threw it anyway. Perfectly. Watson makes a great catch.

    Great call Josh. Only 2 or 3 Packers intercept that if the execution's not perfect.

    It only seemed like good calls for the Packers when their receivers were wide open.

    I guess they were bad calls because Farvre missed them by10 feet.
  23. FSUPatsFan

    FSUPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I completely agree. If you people want to see bad playcalling, watch one of Jeff Bowden's final two games as offensive cordinator of FSU. When you call draw plays on 3rd in 26, thats a bad call. When you call a run out of the I formation on every 1st down when you have no O-line, thats a bad call. When you throw the same swing pass to the running back that the whole world knows is coming on every 3rd and long, thats a bad call.

    The Defense is getting paid big money too. You can call a perfect offensive play, but if the Defense just happened to call the perfect play as well, more often than not, the defense will stop the offense. McDaniels doesn't tell the O-line to let rushers through. He doesn't tell the recievers to not get open. He doesn't tell Brady to badly overthrow and underthrow recievers.

    IMO good playcalling shows when a team is in the red zone, especially inside the 10 yard line when they have very little room to work with. I didn't look up the stats, but from watching the games this year, it seems to me that our red zone offense has been much better than it has in years past. Theres a reason why Gostowski barely has any field goal attempts compared to other kickers.
  24. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Actually that TD play was an audible. Watson said so in his post game interview. Brady read the blitz at the line and audibled out of the play called in the huddle. And then he and Watson executed. That's what they are supposed to do.

    When players execute coordinators look brilliant. When they don't it's a ****ty plan. Of course 11 of them pretty much have to execute in unison or some of them as well as an OC can look pretty ****ty too. Tonight we won the battle in the trenches, and when you do that it's easier for everyone else on the food chain to look good.

    BB will tell you that sometimes a plan doesn't work because your opponent is prepared to counter it. But 7 out of 10 times he can show you on coaches film why it would have worked if everybody had done their job and executed the play as intended. Some here expect 10 out of 10 plays to work, but that just ignores the fact that the other guys are getting paid the big bucks too - and nobody's perfect.
  25. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,735
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -1

    #50 Jersey

    Honestly, Patsnut, the playcalling wasn't any different than the other games. What was different was that the Pats actually executed the plays. Brady was hitting his receivers, not over-throwing or under-throwing them. Other than the Dillon fumble, the Pats played a near perfect game.

    In the Jets and Colts games, the Pats did not execute. I didn't find myself saying WTF are you calling that play for. I found myself says WTF are you doing Brady or Dang it (name your receiver) you got to make that catch. The execution was the biggest difference.
  26. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,735
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -1

    #50 Jersey

    Someone needs to take the blinders off. Brady has been a problem. It wasn't the receivers who were forcing Brady to underthrow and over-throw his receivers (including Dan Graham, Ben Watson, Kevin Faulk and Troy Brown) during the previous 8 games. And no, the receivers weren't perfect, but Brady sure as heck wasn't either. So to pretend like he was is showing you aren't paying attention to what's truly happening.

    Today was the 1st game that I truly felt Brady was HIMSELF. The Brady that we are all used to. Now, it remains to be seen if we will see the same Brady for the rest of the season. If we do, then everyone in the league better be VERY SCARED of the Patriots.
  27. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Speaking of blinders...

    When we win the battle in the trenches and Brady has time to find open receivers who have run precise routes and managed to get decent seperation he looks like himself. He has told us all it along it would be a process, and not one of his choosing. It never ceases to amaze me that so many people just don't listen or would prefer to ignore the obvious and instead point the finger at the guy who got handed a jerry rigged shadow of the unit he groomed over the last 4 years and screech what's wrong with Brady...

    I assume we will see the same Brady for the rest of the season IF his Oline and WR's can finally perform well consistently.
  28. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,735
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -1

    #50 Jersey

    So, What you are saying, Mo, is that Brady has been PERFECT and that ALL the blame falls onto the receivers. Even the receivers who have been with Brady for more than 5 months? Sorry, but that sure sounds like making excuses the way that Peyton Manning does.

    Brady was in the same situation in 2001, except that in 2001, his #2 receiver hadn't even been playing football the previous year. So, I would say that Brady should be able to adjust. And yet, Brady was missing receivers that he KNOWS by a wide margin. I lost track of the throws to Watson, Graham, Faulk and Brown that went incomplete even though Brady had time.

    As I said, I put as much blame on Brady as I do the receivers. That isn't wearing blinders. Its facing reality.
  29. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0


    Agreed, and I believe this comes as a result of losing so much seasoned offensive support -- both on the sidelines and on the field. Tom's been thrust into the pressure-cooker of being not only the leader, the infallible play-maker, but even the "savior" of the team. That's too much to ask of one man in football.

    This isn't a five-player game, like basketball. It takes 22 guys to play at peak and on the same page. Too much has been asked of Brady and he's trying to do the impossible.

    Peyton was raised to be a star, and he has the prima donna attitude that holds him back. Brady came out of relative obscurity and has been living to prove his skeptics wrong. So far he has done an unbelievably great job, but don't expect he will be able to do it all every week all the time.

    Quarterback is clearly the key position, but it's certainly not the only position. If all other facets of the team game are good, the QB need not have to try to be the always infallible savior each week. BB and Co. are known for making the *whole* team as solid as possible, and I hope others will step up to take some of the pressure off Tom's shoulders.


    //
  30. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,800
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    Let me try to help here - the challenge for the Patriots playcalling is not when they are playing a JV team. That's easy.

    All playcalling looks good when the players execute - and/or the defense can't stop them. Playcalling also means more than a balance between run and pass plays.

    The challenge in playcalling is when the offense faces a challenging opponent. Then good playcalling makes the difference. No huddle offense, play action - are they being called at the right times to keep the defense off kilter? Is the run being inexplictacly abandonded when it need not be?

    Today I think we'd all agree that the Patriots could have run one play all day and still probably beat the Packers. (Did you see how dirty Brady's jersey was at the end of the game?)

    I don't think the play calling has been good for most of the season - nor have the players been executing the plays called well.

    We've now seen another flash of brilliance like against Minnesota. The question is, can the coaches and players now do this consistently - and against a tougher team?
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2006

Share This Page