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President Obama Causes Outrage with Reference to ‘Polish Death Camp’

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, May 29, 2012.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    President Doofus strikes again:

    President Obama Causes Outrage with Reference to ‘Polish Death Camp’ - ABC News




    Guess dopey didn't know the Poles had been conquered by the Nazi's and Communist in 1939 and that the Germans ran Death Camps on Polish soil. Sort of like confusing Black people with the KKK after the ivil War.

    Making Bush look smart is pretty hard but Dumbo has managed to do it.
  2. chicowalker

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    If you think Obama wasn't aware of those facts, you're fooling yourself.

    If you said it and don't believe it, well, par for the course, I guess.

    Clearly the term Polish was meant in a geographic sense, and clearly that is offensive to Poland -- understandably. Given that, Obama should apologize -- or will you guys also get upset over an apology, as you so often do?
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Regardless of his intention, it was apparently a political gaffe, and Obama will have to apologize. This is the first I heard that there's a controversy with the phrase "Polish death camps."
  4. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    That's because a liberal said it, so the MSM will do the bare minimum as far as covering it. If Bush had said such a thing? National headlines for months.
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well the Minister of Foreign Affairs has demanded a formal apology.

    https://twitter.com/#!/sikorskiradek

    I guess for many who don't know history they don't appreciate just how insulting this is to the Polish nation.

    This makes his "57 states" look like an insightful comment.

    He is lost without a teleprompter. Incapable of thinking on his feet.
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  6. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I wonder if that's the same one his grandfather liberated while serving in the Red Army. :rocker:
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We don't know that yet, but I hope you're right.
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah the Poles don't like being confused with the Nazi's who invaded their country and persecuted it's citizen's funny how that work.

    Of course this sin't the first time Obama has insulted the Poles, he reversed course on letting them have a missle defense system on the 60 year anniversary of the Solviet Union Invasion of Poland in WW2 (9/17/2009)

    Very thoughtful of them.

    In diplomacy dates and words mean things.
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's a lot of sentiment in the Jewish community that the Poles in many ways were complicit with the Nazis. The Wikipedia article on the subject suggests that a case can be made either way. So, it's not clear if Poland deserves an apology, but still Obama has no choice.
  10. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey
    Nice to see the man honored:

    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  11. chicowalker

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    You sound like Harry. National headlines for months... sure, wolfie...
  12. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Story said there was a teleprompter.

    Guess you didn't watch any debates, huh?
  13. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    After the war, many Polish Jews who survived went back to their villages, only to be killed in pogroms by Poles. Places like Jedwabne during the war and Kielce in 1946. Yes, the President could have prased it better but there were many Poles with blood on their hands,

    New monument to commemorate 1946 Polish pogrom | j. the Jewish news weekly of Northern California
  14. DarrylS

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    Funny how this gets lost in a game of political one upsmanship.....

    BTW it is all over the news this morning, complete with an apology..
  15. PatsFanInVa

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    There was no love lost between Poles and Jews before or after the war. And of course when we say "Jews" in this context, we mean in many cases what had been "Polish Jews" a couple of years before.

    The European Jews of that era indeed reported a great enthusiasm among Poles of that era in the enterprise of cleansing Europe of Jewry. While about 2/3 of the Continent's Jews were murdered in the period of 1939-1945, the percentage among Polish Jews -- the single largest population -- was in the high 90s. It is an indefensible statement to say that the Poles played no part in the genocide of Polish Jewry.

    That does not change the Polish point of view, that they too were victimized by the Nazis and by the Soviets -- which is also a true statement.

    It would indeed be offensive from the Polish point of view to say "Polish death camp," because the Nazis were in fact in charge of those camps, which were staffed by Germans. There were many non-Jewish Poles in those camps as well. So it does not change the fact that a gaffe is a gaffe, that an apology was necessary, and that it was, in fact, given.

    I think this pretty much closes out the outrage on this particular subject, but the local righties will no doubt pursue it ad infinitum for whatever mileage they can get.

    One more note -- guys, please, this is petty on my part, but I write and edit for a living -- can we please learn the diff between possessive and plural? The plural of Nazi is Nazis. There's no apostrophe.

    PFnV
  16. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, even today, Poland is considered a hotbed of antisemitism. Obama was still technically incorrect, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the outrage in Poland comes from their insecurity about antisemitism across the country.

    Euro 2012: Prepare for racism, anti-Semitism and violence in Poland and Ukraine | Left Foot Forward (with links to more detailed articles)

    Rising Anti-Semitism in Poland Is Detailed in New ADL Report

    Antisemitism in Poland; is it safe for a Jew to live in Poland? (interesting perspectives on a Polish-themed board - in English)
  17. PatsFanInVa

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    Nik - it certainly crossed my mind that there's an element of that there, perhaps more than an element. I didn't bother looking at the aggrieved party's politics (i.e., is he especially nationalist, to the point of crypto-fascism himself?) It's irrelevant.

    He'll get mileage in Poland out of getting an apology out of the U.S. He's getting an apology out of the U.S. because Obama made an oopsie.

    I don't think it's productive when "the other guy" uses that tactic -- "consider the victim's crimes" -- so now and then I suppose it behooves me to restrain myself from said tactic.

    Obama screwed up, and it would be better if he didn't.

    Now that's not to say that we can't go down that road of course... especially when the subject touches on something with the layered history of the Polish/Jewish Tragedy Super Bowl.

    When you can't trust a guy to help you beat his own conqueror, you're going to have trust issues... and that's just Partisan vs Partisan bad feeling... The Germans didn't wall up the Ghettoes again without help.

    On the Polish side of the equation, it's been decades of "pet peeve" discomfort, because as many Poles died between the Nazis and the Russians during that war as did Jews. In a couple of instances the Poles accuse Jewish partisans of collaborating with the Soviets in massacres against Poles, although it's far fewer instances than the flip side (where Jew-hunting was a way of life for many, whether fighters or not.)

    We like our history neat and tidy, and honestly, as a Jew, my heart says "oh hell, the only noise we hear about the flip side of this is from far right Nazi sympathizers."

    But for all that, I do know that going through some of my mom's old pictures, I found one of a party of her old office-mates. She had actually penciled into the margin with an arrow, "____, the Litvak anti-semite." (Litvak = Lithuanian; similar story of mutual antipathy; in fact, Lithuanians and Poles have a very commingled history in a lot of ways.)

    In my college days, I knew a girl whose parents were Poles... and she was always quick to bring up the neglected suffering of the Poles during the holocaust, when the subject came up (and we were all concerned with the massive tragedies of the world back then.)

    And to represent the "clueless distanced perspective" in my own life - I knew a guy when I was in college whose parents were Latvians. His clueless howard-stern-persona best friend from high school decided to tell me once that his father had been in an SS auxiliary -- you know, just for fun. I went with the "that was them, this is us" theory, and we got along great. I saw the guy again maybe 5 years ago (20-odd years later) and I asked him about it. He was apoplectic -- his father was an anti-Nazi dissenter who nearly died in the holocaust himself.

    Actually, that guy and I had a good laugh at the whole upfu(kedness of that whole thing.

    One thing I will say about why I love America -- whatever that guy's dad had or had not done, it wasn't our problem.

    So anyhoo: of course I wish Obama hadn't inadvertently stirred up that pot on the international stage. I think I agree with you that politically, the complaint of the Poles in this regard probably gets the complainant a lot of mileage. Don't want someone getting that kind of mileage out of your gaffe? Don't make the gaffe.

    Okay, just wanted to spew something while I drank some morning coffee. Sorry to go so far afield.

    PFnV
  18. IllegalContact

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    you'd have to be an idiot to reference this in geographical terms. some speech writer needs to be axed, and barry better get a proof reader

    to barry's credit, this falls on his staff.....but he should have known
  19. Harry Boy

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    He's just as bad as "windbag Biden"
  20. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He doesn't sound like me, it so happens we speak The Truth, it would have been headlines for months, David Letterman would still be making jokes about it and do you really think MSNBC would have just "dropped it" Mush Mouth Mathhews and MR. Maddow would have had orgasms over it, ON PRIME TIME.
  21. JackBauer

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    You mean the same Minister of Foreign Affairs who wrote for National Review, is a fellow at AEI, and adviser to Rupert Murdoch? Talk about crocodile tears.

    But of course it's more grist for your "Obama is a secret dunce" mill, despite the literal mountains of evidence to the contrary. So I'll ask you again: considering he was able to run circles around your GOP electeds in Baltimore, is it your contention that the GOP House caucus shuttles to work each morning with the rest of the Special Ed students?
  22. DarrylS

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    Twitter is such a reliable source of news.. ;);););)
  23. chicowalker

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    I disagree. This is the first I had heard of this kind of controversy, but in reading about it last night it became clear that the term had been used pretty regularly in the past, and that Poland has been trying to eradicate the term.

    That said, it clearly was a screw-up, and I'm glad an apology was given, as that's the right thing to do.
  24. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    LOL months...

    since we know you only read Drudge, I guess we know who was mocking bush all that time...
  25. IllegalContact

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    the postwar problems were manifeted by soviet rule. Jews who returned to their villages and towns returned to properties that had been confiscated by communists.

    the same thing was happening to one degree or another in every country in that area. it was more prevalent in poland only because of the number of Jews still there.

    what also contributed to the problem in poland was the residual notion left by the nazis that the polish were nearly 'as bad' as the jews .... said Himmler: "All Polish specialists will be exploited in our military-industrial complex. Later, all Poles will disappear from this world. It is imperative that the great German nation considers the elimination of all Polish people as its chief task"

    in poland, just as many ethnic poles were killed by the nazis as jews.
    Last edited: May 30, 2012
  26. IllegalContact

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    anything it takes to deflect responsibility for your boy, right?
  27. Patsfanin Philly

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    I don't think there is a proof reader other than the President and I've said that since the inauguration speech when he cited the 42 men before him who were President when there were only 41 ( Grover Cleveland served twice and is considered President 21 and 23 or something like that). You want me to believe that something that basic slipped past a proof reader. It is minor in comparison but sometimes having another set of eyes looking at something is a prudent way of doing things...It prevents things like "corpsemen" said repeatedly when it was corpsman...
    You're right it falls on the staff but the boss has to be willing to listen and the staff not afraid to correct him.....
    Last edited: May 30, 2012
  28. patsfan13

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    Long term the Nazi's wanted to get rid of the Slavs after the Jews and Gypsies were disposed of.
  29. JackBauer

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    Why would we need to deflect anything? He's already taken responsibility and apologized.
  30. patsfan13

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    THe deflection relates to how many stupid things Obama says when deprived of his teleprompter. He make Bush look like a rocket scientist which is hard to do.

    57 states say hi. :D

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