Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsWSB47, Jun 27, 2011.
When will it all end?
When taxpayers say, "I aint helping to pay for this horsesh1t!"
Maybe then?...just guessin'
I guess "SOME" people feel everything we've done was wrong. I mean letting a boy know he's a boy and a girl know she's a girl is pretty wierd, dontcha think?
Pretty soon, you won't hear, "I now pronounce you man & wife" at weddings anymore. In Sweden, they'll just say, "I now pronounce you 2 married FRIENDS!"
If I had a son going to that school, I'd tell him to say to a girl, "You're a girl!...you're a girl!" just to see what happens.
Actually it's been husband and wife for some time now and I agree with that, but gender denial is going too far.
Apparently no one is forced to go there. The article says there is a "long waiting list" of children waiting to attend.
Sounds a bit much to me - but if people want their kids educated in such a fashion, and as long as no one is forced to go there, then it's not much different than sending your kids to a religious school, is it?
Its funded by taxpayers though...that's not so voluntary.
This is Sweden, right? Most things there are paid by taxpayers. And in Sweden, there is little difficulty telling a man from a woman.
It's Sweden......all schools receive taxpayer funds.
Prior to the 1990s, there were only a handful of independent schools, mostly tuition-funded boarding schools. In 1992 the government introduced a system of school vouchers where schools without the municipality as principal, could receive government funding for each student. The schools cannot charge the students extra fees, nor they can discriminate or require admission examinations. These "free schools" (similar to charter schools in the United States or academies in the United Kingdom) most often have an alternate pedagogy (for example Montessori), foreign/international, religious (for example Catholic or Muslim) or special needs (for example hearing-impaired) profile.
Independent schools and public schools alike receive money from the kommun for every pupil they have enrolled.
Education in Sweden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In a perfect world that little girl would be a black belt in karate.
I know it's Sweden, So all must participate in the program whether they like it or not.
Now you make a point that I'm not sure you were going for. If it's so easy to tell a man from a woman in Sweden then removing the name for each doesn't do a darn thing remove stereotypes.
If ISLAM ever gets it's foot in the door over there and starts to have a little power they'll take care of those Nutty Bastards,.
Mohammad will tell them who a Boy and a Girl is.................:rocker:
No, I don't think so....at least that's not the way I'm reading it or understanding it.
Sweden operates on a Charter School system. Parent's get to pick which school their kids go to - and all but a very few independent schools are state funded.
Parents pick which school their kids go to and each school gets a certain amount of tax dollars per student enrolled.
They can choose to send their kids to a Catholic school or a Muslim school or a Jewish school or a progressive school such as this one.
I don't get the idea that anyone is forced to send their children here - it's all based upon parental choice.
If I'm reading it incorrectly, please point it out to me because I really don't see where you're getting that anyone must participate in this particular program at this particular school.
The popularity of the 'Millennium' book trilogy by Stieg Larsson is going to the heads of the Swedes. It looks as if they are trying to produce some Lisbeth Salander types.
The books are a good read though.
I didn't clarify very well what I meant. Everyone participates in terms of funding it. Anyway, the idea of it bothers me. What's next, boxer shorts and uniforms for all? Unisex haircuts? Names like "Seven of Nine" so no possible gender identification can be derived from it? Fighting sexism is one thing but this strategy is questionable.
Lisbeth is an animal, but this thread does not have a lot to do with American Politics...
That's true....but everyone participates in funding religious schooling in Sweden, too. I just don't see the difference. If my dollars are going to fund an Islamic school and a Catholic school and a Jewish School they may as well fund a non-sexist school, too. It simply means (to me, anyhow) that every parent, myself included, has the option of choosing any particular cirriculum they desire for their children -at no extra cost to any of them.
ROFLMAO Aren't we pretty much already there? Ever since the 60s boys and girls are dressing more and more alike in some instances - and boys have long hair and girls have short hair and seems that we can all tell the difference just fine.
And names like Joey and Kelly and Pat and Jordan and Dakota and Jamie and Casey are not unisex names?
I don't know - it's just a thing - like lots of other things. Fads come and fads go - this'll probably go. I kinda like the idea of boys in the kitchen and girls in the legos.
Call me old fashioned but I like the differences and would like it to stay.....I just realized though that you're the only regular poster on this forum with a gender suggestive name. Anyway removing gender identification words from a school vocabulary doesn't seem right. I think its too much
You're entirely right, PatsSB - and if you've paid any attention you'll have noticed that certain people routinely tell me things like, "Get in the kitchen and make me some bacon and eggs," and make sly references to "summer's breeze," and "Summer's eve," when they don't like what I have to say - things they would not say to someone who did not have a gender specific handle.
Which, if you're at all interested in your daughters being treated fairly and equally, should set off some warning bells at the very least.
I'd actually encourage you to try using a feminine name on an internet board sometime - you'd be surprised at the amount of hostility you'd notice that you hadn't noticed beforehand - even though you're saying the exact same things you'd have said using a masculine name.
That's fine...and I'm sure there are alot of parents who agree with you - some of them in Sweden...the beauty of the Swedish system is they can choose not to send their kids to that school.
You got points on mothers day
Seriously I know you've been disrespected here by a couple of guys pretty consistently and you hold your own, honestly. Some of what I say or other guys say comes form the perspective being a guy, just like some of what you say comes from perspective from being a gal. We can acknowledge that and and embrace it a little even, so long as we do not use it to be disrespectful. I'm also mindful that this is a male dominated board and some of this unfortunately comes with the territory. I suspect similar incidences might happen on a female dominated board that had one or two makes posting on it. Maybe not as much though. I'm not sure so i;ll ask you. Aside from an experiment aren't you more comfortable identifying your gender identity than hiding it? I mean don't you think you lose some of yourself by denying it? (I guess we males don't because we assume posters are male unless otherwise noted?)
Coincidentally my daughter just broke off a relationship(Thank God) with this loser, controlling jerk. I only recently caught on to the fact that he was that type and I'm shocked that she put up with him, giving her personality nad the example she grew up in. But she did do it on her own and i'm proud of her for that.
Hmmm...I think Lina Axmacher disagrees.
Well, as taxpayers, there are many things you have to pay for but never use. That's the way modern political groups function. Sweden has decided that this is the way they want it. It works for them. You don't have to go to this school.
Gender designation (or lack of) is not something I would want my school to focus on, but my kids don't live in Sweden, and I don't know of any such situation here. I don't have any problems identifying as a man, but my wife does when people know she's a woman. Life is tougher for chicks...er...women.
Sorry... That's what I get for being a life-long single guy!
To me, the question is, why on earth would any sane parent send their kid to such an alien world?
Should we stop having our children say things like,
"Here boy, c'mon boy....yes, that's a good boy!" to their dog?
Some day, science may enable men to bear children. But I'm of the mind that such should never be legal...don't even allow such research...but that's just me.
Not sure I agree "Life is tougher...." for women. Maybe just different challenges...somet things harder, some easier. But how would we really know unless we were women wistah?
If you said, building a career in NFL broadcasting (no pun intended) is harder for women, no doubt I'd agree.
This is true!!
Oh, I totally agree - but I'm not sure everyone here does, are you? Some people don't want any other point of view for some reason....or they question it's validity. I've been called a liar here several times when I've related stories from my life.
I don't think so. I've written articles for a board which concerns mothering - there was the occasional full-time father who'd find his way there....they would always be treated with the utmost respect and, honestly, curiousity. The women were always interested in getting a male's point of view about child rearing. I found it kind of sad because, to me, it meant that these women were not getting that kind of input at home from their husbands. I never saw any overt hostility like occasionally rears it's ugly head here.
I don't think it matters to me. I worked most of my life in male dominated fields so I'm used to being odd-girl out. It takes alot of years but you eventually develop a sense of self which does not rely on gender but merely notes it and moves on. I managed to reach a point of acceptance where, when a stranger would remark on my sex the rest of my department would say, "Oh, that's just ______, she's one of the guys," and that was that.
You go through stages, irritation, amusement and then acceptance, I suppose. In the beginning it really made me angry when I'd be working a fire with some other department and, due to the nature of turn out gear no one could tell I was female, when the fire was out and I'd take my helmet, face covering and overcoat off some member of the strange department would do a double take and exclaim, "Oh sh!t - it's a woman!" Then it got funny because it happened so often and then it just was - and it was ok because it meant that I did a good enough job that I wasn't automatically suspect as "different," or otherwise inept.
I do know that a good many female poets that I'm acquainted with tend to publish under an initial and a last name. They are convinced that they do not get a fair shake from editors because they are women and so they do not identify themselves as such when submitting work for publication.
They may have a point - I've read several studies which do careful counts and the ratio of published male to female poets is skewed. It could be that there are more males writing poetry, but I doubt it. It could be that they are better poets, but the law of averages is against that, too, I think. I've had editors tell me that they get more submissions from men than from women so that could be the reason, too.....but I do know that many females, when competing in a setting which is not face-to-face, feel more equal if they use either an initial or a sexually ambigious first name.
And that's why I'm not sure schools like this one are a totally bad thing. The reason "you males" assume posters are male is because this is a football board - and, whether you realize it or not - you assume that only males would be interested.
Have you ever asked yourself why that it?
Good for her - but don't be surprised if she takes up with the same kind again, unfortunately. It's the "bad boy" appeal and it's real. It's even more real for normally strong willed intelligent women for some reason. Maybe they think they can break him or something, I don't know. My neice is going through the same thing. If a guy is nice to her, she's bored with him. If he treats her like crap she's intrigued.
Been there, done that. More times than I'd like to admit to.
I'm truly curious, PR. What would you think a woman would find easier? (Other than getting past a bouncer into a crowded bar?)
Not being expected to support a spouse and family financially.
Not having to deal with women who think they know nwhat they want but really don't? (That one is partly in jest... partly.)
Is that really expected of a man nowdays? Seems that most families are two income families to me. Both mom and dad work - and mom still bears most of the house work and child care, too.
I read a really interesting article about this just the other day. I'll try to find it. The gist of the article was that most women really DO know what they want - but because most women still operate under the assumption that women are supposed to be peacekeepers and negotiators they back off of it...so they may say, "Oh never mind, that wasn't really what I meant," as a peaceful gesture but inside they really know that's exactly what they wanted.
In other words, they change their wants in an attempt to do what's expected of them or what they think someone else wants them to want - the real dissention is not with the male in question, the real dissention is all in their head because they think they shouldn't have wanted it in the first place and they back off of their original want in order to placate the male - not because they no longer want it.
LOL Not explaining it well - I'll look for the article.
When and why did this "Mom Sh!t" replace the word "MOTHER"
God Damn America
Is it expected as much as it used to be? Absolutely not.
Is it still expected? Generally so.
There was an article just last week re a study re women being (un)willing to marry unemployed men. And, yes, $ is still a huge allure for many women.
(Reminds me of the line a friend finally used with a then serious girlfriend who broke out the "you can't commit" line with him one too many times -- easy for you to say, you'll be "committing" to what you want more than anything, having a baby and staying home to take care of it... me committing is committing to take care of you and any kids we have for the next 20 years. (and btw, lest you think he was immature, or an as*hole, he's not... and he married the next woman he dated and she is now expecting with their first )
Do they, though? Weren't you just talking about the allure of the "bad boy"? Yet most women would never admit that's what they want, and when it comes down to reality it's not what they want.
Don't get me wrong, both genders do it. I just get the sense that women do it more, and are much more conflicted by what it means.
Funny, this may be a good indicator of each gender's bias on these things.. but what you described above sounds much more male than female to me.
Most men I know feel they are constantly trying to appease the women in their lives, backing off what they really want because either they know it's important to the woman or they know it's not important to them. ("A happy wife is a happy life.")
I was :rofl:'ing reading this thread. My oldest, a girl used to play soccer with boys up to age 14 and she pretty much owned the field so to speak. So when people asked me how many kids I had I used to say i have 3 boys and one looks like a girl.
In any case they have done studies that proved most boys and most girls fit the stereotypes a bit as to childhood preferences - but when they don't nobody should care - whatever. When I was in grade school 3 or 4 boys used to play jump rope and hopscotch with the girls - in hindsight they were smarter than the rest of us.
Women can both talk and listen to each other at the same time.
Separate names with a comma.