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Pre-camp 53-man Roster Prediction

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by cstjohn17, Jul 24, 2007.

  1. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    53 spots doesn't stretch as far as it used to....

    QB BRADY, Cassel
    LWR MOSS, BROWN
    RWR Stallworth, Welker, Gaffney
    LT Light
    LG Mankins, Yates
    C Koppen, Hochstein
    RG Neal
    RT O'Callaghan, Oldenburg
    TE Watson, Thomas, BRADY
    FB Evans, Mills
    RB Maroney, FAULK, MORRIS
    LDE Warren, Wright
    NT Wilfork, Smith
    RDE Seymour, Green, Brown
    LOLB COLVIN, Woods
    LILB BRUSCHI, Alexander
    RILB SEAU, Lua, IZZO
    ROLB THOMAS VRABEL
    LCB Samuel, Gay, JAMES
    SS HARRISON, Sanders, HAWKINS
    FS Wilson, Meriweather, Andrews
    RCB Hobbs, SCOTT
    P MILLER
    PK Gostkowski
    LS Paxton

    Practice Squad - Kight (WR), Corey Hilliard (OL), Justise Hairston (RB), Quantrill Hill (FB), Mays (LB - Not sure he is still elligible for PS…), Bissinger (LB), Justin Rogers (LB), Mike Richardson (CB)

    Cuts - Kelly Washington, Caldwell, Mike Elgin, Kaczur, Quantrill Hill, Hawkins,Mitchell, Chad Brown
    PUP Chad Jackson
  2. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    You really like Oldenburg huh?
  3. IndyKen

    IndyKen Rookie

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    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    Can't see Oldenberg beating out Britt at tackle.
  4. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    Yes, they are going to cut the only WR from last year who had success with Brady? Makes no sense.

    Also, they aren't cutting Elgin. He was the best O-line in the rookie camp and he has the versatility to supplant someone like Hochstein or even Neal.

    Oh, I think you also meant to say they were cutting Quinton Smith, not Quadtrine Hill since you included him on the practice squad.

    Honestly, Mays is a more likely cut than either Elgin or Barthelmes.

    How can HAWKINS make the team, but also be a cut?
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2007
  5. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    I can. I haven't been impressed with Britt in the least bit.

    However, I don't see the Pats CUTTING Kaczur. He has definite trade value.

    Also, a lot depends on O'Callaghan's health. He's had 4 concussions in the last 3 years and the last concussion he had attributed to him missing most of the 2nd half of the season, including the play-offs.
  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I have to agree with Dabruinz, IF the Pats were to decide to move Kazcur, which is unlikely considering O'Callaghan's inability to stay healthy, it is very easy to see Kazcur follow Gorin into the trade for "a conditional pick" trapdoor in BB's office.

    I'm not sold on Oldenburg's athletism or strength. I think it's a huge longshot, but I'm hoping he surprises me.
  7. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    It was posted to create a dialog on what the roster may look like. I put my down on paper, where is yours?

    1. Yes, they are going to cut the only WR from last year who had success with Brady? Makes no sense.
    It came down to choosing between Caldwell and Gaffney, I went with Gaffney. He came in late and learned the system pretty well and despite Reche's record setting performance in 2006 I think Brady was in a better rhythm with Gaffney.

    2. Also, they aren't cutting Elgin. He was the best O-line in the rookie camp and he has the versatility to supplant someone like Hochstein or even Neal.
    He has a shot to make the practice squad but I wouldn't put to much into a single rookie mini-camp.

    3. Oh, I think you also meant to say they were cutting Quinton Smith, not Quadtrine Hill since you included him on the practice squad.
    That was my mistake, I think Q. Hill makes the practice squad.

    4. Honestly, Mays is a more likely cut than either Elgin or Barthelmes.
    Maybe.

    5. How can HAWKINS make the team, but also be a cut?
    Another mistake by me. He is a bubble player, originally I had him Mitchell beating him out and then changed my mind.

    6. Oldenberg
    Honestly I don't know the difference between Oldenberg and Hilliard but there had to be a reason so many OL were taken in the draft. I picked Oldenberg because he was drafted higher. There could be a shake up on the line with Kaczur, O'Callaghan or even Neal being cut. I took a chance, maybe I am wrong but there has to be some suspense.
  8. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    Why do I have to retype everything you just put up? I shouldn't have to just because you won't look at what I said and make the connections.

    Why does it come down to those two? You are making a huge assumption that Brown will be available and won't be pupped.

    As for Gaffney being "in rhythm" with Brady, just a reminder that Gaffney had all of 11 receptions in 11 games with the Pats prior to his "break-out" in the play-offs. And another reminder, prior to Gaffney's break-out, Caldwell was being covered by the other team's top corner with very little help on the other side.

    Elgin has a shot at making the roster, never mind the practice squad. Elgin was drawing RAVE reviews all around. And it wasn't just the rookie mini-camp. It was the other camps as well.

    3. Oh, I think you also meant to say they were cutting Quinton Smith, not Quadtrine Hill since you included him on the practice squad.
    That was my mistake, I think Q. Hill makes the practice squad.

    I don't know about a shake-up on the O-line. I believe that the reason that "so many" O-line were taken is because the Pats had questions about the players they have.

    O'Callaghan - Injury issues. He's had 4 concussions in 3 years, the last one all but ending his season last year.

    Kaczur - Rumors persist about his lack of commitment and his attitude.

    Britt - In my eyes, he hasn't shown me much other than an ability to step in for a few snaps. O'Callaghan came in and beat Britt out handedly last year when Kaczur was recovering from his injury.

    I think that Oldenburg is more likely than Hilliard to make it because Oldenburg came in and was where he needed to be phyisically, as opposed to Hilliard, who had to be excused from the last 10 minutes of the 1st day.

    Elgin - He's is extremely athletic and excellent technically. He's shorter than normal, but has a very strong base and moves well. He's a perfect player for the zone blocking scheme the Pats are talking about. There is a good possibility that we could see Hochstein or Neal traded to make a spot for this kid. I don't see the Pats trading or cutting Yates considering they just re-signed him to a contract, though it could happen as well.
  9. TeamPats

    TeamPats Rookie

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    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    I just think 22 people on Offense is too little. There is more to Special Teams then just LB's. I think Kelley Washington' ST value is going unnoticed here. I also concur that if these rookies are to make our 53 man roster on the OL there would definately need to be a few trades as many in the NFL see our current OL depth as # 1 and that is before we consider our new draft picks. I think the reason BB picked so many OL at the end of the draft was because he had to. We had so manu Supplemental picks that are not tradeable that he knew he would have to draft players that can be developed without being on the 53. In the Patriots system this has notoriously been the OL as Dante is an incredible coach.
  10. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    I appreciate your feedback, although I don't have to agree with it.

    I will stick with my list of 53 until next week when I will change it again...
  11. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    The only thing I would question is the couple of veterans so low on your depth chart. No sense keeping Hawkins or Scott as gameday inactives.

    The starting 25 (off+def+ST) is pretty much set pending injury and Samuel reporting. Pick one of O'Callaghan, Kaczur or Britt at RT and either Brady or Thomas at TE. Let's go with O'Callaghan and Brady for now.

    I think there are 8 reserve spots that are pretty well set also (Cassel, Faulk, Morris, Welker, D.Thomas, Green, Sanders and Meriweather). That leaves 12 spots left on the active 45.

    Around 8 of those 12 will likely be specific positions that need to be filled to round out a gameday roster (2 WR, OT, G/C, DL, 2 LB and a DB). This is where the veterans (excluding ST-only guys) not in the top 33 will have to earn their spot. Here is my take on the options in this group:

    WR - 4th and 5th WR spots are not going to see a lot of time. Putting a veteran here used to getting significant work (Caldwell) may be bad for chemistry. Also, assuming Jackson comes off PUP during the season, someone will need to go. Given these factors, I'm putting Troy and K.Washington in these spots. Troy should be effective with a limited workload (plus some PR and isolated DB duties) and K.Washington would be in a 6-9 week tryout to show his upside. Caldwell and Gaffney are likely not in the long-term plans and don't bring any unique skills to the table this year.

    OT - One of the O'Callaghan, Kaczur or Britt group that didn't get the starting job. Let's give it to Kaczur.

    G/C - The "center" skill here is key since Koppen needs a gameday backup. Let's put Hochstein here since I'm not sure if Yates has shown the same skills at center and I would think Elgin needs some time to develop.

    DL - I know everyone wants to put a backup NT here but given the position flexibility of the DL, I'm not sure that is necessary. If K.Brown can learn the scheme and show he is motivated, he has a huge upside. He only showed it in flashes at Miami, but I still like him here over Wright and Smith.

    LB - Seau fits here obviously since he is one of the top 5. The braintrust seems to see something in Alexander so I'll give him the other spot.

    DB - Gay, Scott and Hawkins fight for one spot. If Gay can get back to form, I'll give him this spot due to upside and position flexibility.

    That leaves 4 spots open for essentially exclusive special teamers. Izzo is the captain. Evans has a large ST role so unless Mills overtakes him, Evans gets this spot. Any number of options for the other 2 spots but I'll go with Andrews and Woods.

    The 8 gameday inactives are a crapshoot but here goes. Mills and Yates seems to be logical fits here. Same for the O'Callaghan/Kaczur/Britt loser if they aren't injured or traded. Gotta have some rookies who impress (Lua, Richardson, Elgin) or are projects (Rogers). For the last spot, I'll go with a third QB...either Vinny (mentor/coach) or Gutierrez (project). I'll lean to Gutierrez and let Vinny hang around the team on his own time.

    Fun to think about but unfortunately injuries will likely change the landscape during TC.
  12. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again:

    There is no way Randy Moss makes this team.

    :rocker:

    PFnV
  13. MetalBleachers

    MetalBleachers Rookie

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    This isn't your point, but I think that's a very strong PS. I'd like to see how well some of those guys (Hairston, Rogers, Bissinger) develop in a year.
  14. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Kight is ineligible for the practice squad. Mays is eligible.

    It's Quadtrine Hill, BTW. ;)
  15. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    Good analysis, certainly fun to think about, lots and lots of options. Some pretty good players are going to get cut.

    Pats1 - Thank you for the clarification on the PS eligibility, it requires a Philadelphia lawyer to figure it out.
  16. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    Are you kidding?

    How can we POSSIBLY be arguing the merits of Britt over Oldenberg, whether one has better arm strength, etc....?!? Can we really make ANY fact-based claims about Elgin and his strengths and weaknesses... wtf, people? What could that stuff possibly be based on? Reiss's blog notes from three days of indoor practice at rookie camp?

    No fan can have any meaningful opinion about the rookies at this point. The kids have had about two weeks of practice time, mostly behind closed doors. They're all Day Two picks in a weak draft class... which doesn't bode well. I'm absolutely 100% certain that BB himself isn't exactly sure what he has in his rookies, so anyone who's making roster claims based on MERIT is just talking trash.

    Let's not make it sound we've got all this deep insight into the strengths, weaknesses and career outlooks of each after a few weeks of offseason to base our judgements. If it's a gut feel, just say it's a gut feel.

    I get that 53-man projections are fun, and I love doing it. But these kids are completely unknown quantities, so let's not pretend they aren't. Pick a guy for whatever reason... for the heck of it... no need to write a thesis defending or rebutting why Oldenberg has the inside track over Kaczur, or Elgin over Yates... it's ludicrous.
  17. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    John: Are you going to put your paper out there against DaBruinz' paper?

    But seriously, folks...
  18. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    What did I half-hear today on the radio about Toledo (where Kaczur went, right?) being mentioned in the same breath as the crooked NBA ref and gambling? I am NOT indicting Kaczur, but I wonder if he knows anybody who knows anything about [whatever I'm half-talking about!]

    Boy, do I need details.... A little help?
  19. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    Are you sure he is?? he was activated before Game 8 Colts...was inactive for 1 game..(Chic) so with 8 reg season 3 PO..11..is that under the number needed to be eligible for PSquad? Just checking..I know it's close..but I would have said no.
  20. IndyKen

    IndyKen Rookie

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    Re: Pre-camp 53 Man Roster Prediction

    Supposedly Britt has the feet and athleticism for the LT spot, where OC does not...another factor to be considered in the makeup of the final 53.

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