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Powell fires back in debate over GOP's future

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DisgruntledTunaFan, May 25, 2009.

  1. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Powell fires back in debate over GOP's future - Yahoo! News

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    WASHINGTON – Moderate Republicans to conservative Republicans: Turn down the volume — especially on Rush Limbaugh — and open your minds. The party's future might be at stake.

    Such warnings about the GOP's right wing, along with finger wagging about a "shrill" and "judgmental" tone, marked the moderate response in the latest back-and-forth within the Republican Party.

    Colin Powell and Tom Ridge argued on television's Sunday talk shows that conservatives are steering the GOP too far to the right and not listening to other views within the party. Newt Gingrich, seen as a potential presidential candidate in 2012, agreed about broadening the base while political guru Karl Rove challenged Powell to lay out his vision and "back it up" by helping elect Republicans.

    "I believe we should build on the base because the nation needs two parties, two parties debating each other," said Powell, the nation's top military officer under President George H.W. Bush and secretary of state for President George W. Bush.

    "But what we have to do is debate and define who we are and what we are and not just listen to dictates that come down from the right wing of the party," he said.

    Former Vice President Dick Cheney and Limbaugh, the king of talk radio, have openly mocked Powell as a Republican in name only, citing his endorsement of Democrat Barack Obama over Republican John McCain in last year's presidential race.

    Powell reaffirmed that he is a solid Republican and said the GOP must be more inclusive or risk giving Democrats and independents the chance to scoop up disaffected moderate Republicans. He detailed his presidential voting history — yes to GOP nominees Ronald Reagan through the younger Bush, but yes also to Democrats John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter.

    "If we don't reach out more, the party is going to be sitting on a very, very narrow base. You can only do two things with a base. You can sit on it and watch the world go by, or you can build on the base," Powell said.

    Fellow GOP moderate Ridge, the former Pennsylvania governor and homeland security secretary under George W. Bush, said if the GOP wants "to restore itself, not as a regional party, but as a national party, we have to be far less judgmental about disagreements within the party and far more judgmental about our disagreement with our friends on the other side of the aisle."

    Gingrich, the former House speaker, insisted he didn't want to pick a fight with Cheney. But he offered this advice: "I think Republicans are going to be very foolish if they run around deciding they're going to see how much they can purge us down to the smallest possible base."

    Cheney, defense secretary when Powell was Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman during the Gulf War in 1991, has made clear that he would rather follow broadcaster Limbaugh than Powell into political battle over the GOP's future. "I didn't know he was still a Republican," Cheney said in a television interview two weeks ago.

    Limbaugh has called Powell "just another liberal," said he should become a Democrat and charged that Powell endorsed Obama based on race. Powell and Obama are black.

    In remarks to business leaders in Boston this past week, Powell took on such high-profile criticism, saying, "I may be out of their version of the Republican Party, but there's another version of the Republican Party waiting to emerge once again."

    Rove, chief political strategist for the younger Bush, took the position that "if you say you're Republican, you're Republican." But he wanted more than words from Powell.

    "I don't like this thing where people — and Powell is one them — who said, `Rush Limbaugh, shut up.' We believe, as Republicans in the marketplace of ideas. Let that marketplace decide," Rove said.

    "I want Colin Powell to go out there and lay out his vision, and then I want him to back it up by finding people who share it and working like heck to get them — and that's how you win the party."

    Like Cheney, Rove said he would pick Limbaugh over Powell, but said it's moot. "Neither one of those are going to be people who are offering themselves for office. ... This is a false debate that Washington loves."

    Intraparty squabbles would appear natural given the low standing of the Republican Party and George W. Bush's administration in opinion polls. But Republicans who have suggested that the party moderate its views and even support some of Obama's initiatives have been quickly targeted for criticism.

    Ridge, an abortion-rights supporter who was on McCain's short list of vice presidential picks but deemed too moderate by more conservative elements of the GOP, said he thinks "a lot of our commentators are being shrill."

    "Rush Limbaugh has an audience of 20 million people. A lot of people listen daily to him and live by every word. But words mean things and how you use words is very important," Ridge said. "It does get the base all fired up and he's got a strong following. But personally, if he would listen to me, and I doubt if he would, the notion is express yourselves but let's respect others' opinions and let's not be divisive."

    Powell appeared on CBS' "Face the Nation." Ridge's taped interview aired on CNN's "State of the Union." Gingrich spoke on NBC's "Meet the Press" and Rove on "Fox News Sunday."
     
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting debate, it all makes great folly and continues to tear apart the party of family values.. :D
     
  3. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What goes around comes around...and it will come around for the other party.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do not disagree, but in the meantime it makes great entertainment..
     
  5. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The signs of fracture in the party were showing last year during the run up to and during the primary season...divisions on issues and alliances and allegiances being made and broken among the party leaders and faithful.

    If they had lost the election all hell would have broken loose...it just delayed the inevitable. Give it time, those cracks will deepen.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  6. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The Democrats are the bigger but less united party. What you see as cracking is actually something that's never been firmly connected.
     
  7. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Then it's not cracks, it's crevasses.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  8. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are two possibilities:

    1) The GOP is in civil war, and it's normal to do that when you get voted out decisively, or

    2) The GOP is in civil war, and they are beyond the normal tumult of getting voted out decisively.

    Believe me guys, the first election I voted in was for Carter. I was there for the big-D "Democide" of the 80s, and then I was there again when Newt and company decided we hadn't named enough things "Reagan" in the 90s (wildly popular, during that time period.)

    So I know how the pendulum works. But I don't think everyone on the national scene on the right "gets" it. In fact I think the ones who do are few and far between.

    What we're seeing now is a distaste for the "culture war" theory of politics, because the country has real problems. We may also be seeing a new generation not as concerned with "culture war" issues, even at the political extremes of right and left. That leaves you needing a coherent platform and narrative that does not appeal to said fractious issues.

    I don't think, right now, that the country wants the reflexive accusations of treason, ungodliness, and communism/socialism that is the Republican playbook. The fringe right continues to shout through their blowholes that hurling a lot of feces at the other side is the only "truth" and that they are joan of arc and socrates all rolled up into one when they do this, with or without anything like a germ of truth in the lie-dung-heap.

    Meanwhile, everyone else is watching them scream and whine their hysterics, and shrugging their shoulders and saying "WTF dude?"

    Long story short: it's 2009.

    Every pendulum that swings does not swing back; I suppose it depends in large part on how "purist" the purists are.

    After all, the present far-right ideologues have also historically either been ostriches or 'high rollers' regarding the economy, and it's starting to look to me like they're not clear that you can lose it all when you go to the craps table once too often.

    It's a possibility they ignore at their peril... but it's always fun to watch during periods of changes such as this one.

    90% chance, the pendulum swings. Waaahhh. Once the Dems once again mop up the damage of another failed ideological purity movement, who's to say we don't just generate another one? Sic Transit.

    PFnV
     
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Powell Translated:
    Powell wants us to kiss Obama's a$s.

    Powell, Snowe, Collins kiss my a$s.
     
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It's looking (sounding) to me like Gingrich is going to run for President. He might as well, it would be the Clinton path - run to win your primary in a weak crop then hope the country has become disenchanted with the sitting President by general election time.
     
  11. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you're absolutely right, and right now, maybe a week or two into it, he's looking like the only grownup in the room that hasn't been labelled "RINO" and dispensed with. But he's way stronger than the clowns surrounding him (word used without regard to political spectrum, but in regard to intellectual firepower/popular appeal.) He's the only one on the right wing who could make a run of it at present.
     
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm hoping he runs, even if you assume obama wins re-election the Republicans need a candidate who can express himself clearly and thoughtfully. Say what you want about Newt but he is very smart and expresses himself as such. Even if the country has become more Democratic, we need to have the Conservative side expressed clearly.
     
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hope he runs also as it will provide great comedy, as the party of family values will certainly unite and be strong with a guy at the helm who used to get BJ's from interns in the parking lot.. the dems are out getting sworn depositions right now.. if this is the best the Pubbies can do, it will only divide them further.. but he is a catholic now, so all is forgiven.
     
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    He should get all the Clinton voters then. You are a sad, pathetic one trick pony. No-one ever said Newt was perfect but he would express the Conservative argument elegantly and forcefully. If the country doesn't choose to go with it, great, but they will hear the argument for the first time in a long time.
     
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "Sad pathetic, one trick pony", surprised to hear that from you.. personal attacks are usually not part of your genre..

    If you want an imperfect candidate who has multiple indisgretions so be it.. personally do not thing it will not resonate well with most of the party and most of America.
     
  16. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This I agree with. Regardless of the side one takes, a national debate among articulate informed candidates would be refreshing. Out of our national silliness for decades might finally come that idea-versus-idea choice we really need, rather than a sophomoric food fight without the food.

    Darryl's comment I agree with also, another way from how he meant it. I would love for the subject to be covered early on, very fully and very intently. It should be demonstrated once and for all that peoples' private lives are essentially their business. Newt shouldn't get a free pass. He should be exposed to the same scrutiny as the rest of those who are busted for "sexcrimes" while in office. And I would hope -- hope -- that it results in the kind of national yawn it deserves and always has deserved.

    PFnV
     
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That's all you ever say about Newt. We have acknowledged that he's imperfect. But he's an intriguing, intelligent candidate.
     
  18. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    But it is a major part of yours :rolleyes: When you can't formulate an actual thought out reply you resort to namecalling and repeat the same thing over again :rolleyes:

    He scares you. He actually scares you with what he stands for- he's one candidate who has stood his ground on issues that genuinely scare non-conservatives and does so in a charismatic and authoritative way.

    He may not win but he isn't in it to win- he is in it to get the viewpoints of a major part of America heard that aren't being heard due to the pandering by the usual talking heads and politicians. That's why you see guys with no chance in hell like Dennis Kucinich and Ralph Nadar running- to get the viewpoints of the silent block or voters heard.
     
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Clinton family made Blow Jobs irrelevant.

    Newt knows what he's doing, he'll do what I tell people to do "just sit back and watch Messiah self destruct"
     
  20. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Have you looked at our recent Presidents ? The closest we come to no indiscretions is a guy who hung around terrorists and America haters - and that's the BEST we've come recently with regard to personal conduct. Remember Clinton's affairs, Bush's drugs, etc. You have to go back to Bush I if you want a squeaky clean President.
     

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