Potential Patriots: RB Matt Forte (UFA)

[Off The Grid]

This is a good Thread, by the way. Props to the OP, our divergent Perspectives notwithstanding.

01 ~ I'm sure that we all agree that Matt Forte has been a tremendous PowerBack for many Years.
02 ~ And it goes without saying that for the right Price, Forte would be a great addition.
03 ~ But that would be true of many Free Agents.

04 ~ Therefore, it seems to clearly come down to two things, yes?
05 ~ What would we have to pay to get'm?
06 ~ And what would we get?

07 ~ Corey Dillon was 29, going into 2004.
08 ~ Matt Forte will be 30, going into 2016.
09 ~ If you don't think that that's a substantial Difference, you haven't done your HomeWork.

10 ~ However, Frank Gore was 32, going into 2015.
11 ~ And that is an enormous Difference.
12 ~ Lead HalfBacks age rapidly.

13 ~ History tells us that most Lead HalfBacks slow down, often, substantially, at about 29.
14 ~ Ladanian Tomlinson was spectacular at 28...and sucked at 29. Look it up.
15 ~ Shaun Alexander was phenomenal at 28...and sucked at 29.

16 ~ There is no hard and fast rule: Barry Sanders was sensational at 29.
17 ~ And Dillon had his Swan Song with us at 29 before fading fast.
18 ~ But Matt Forte will be 30.

19 ~ I'm not saying that he'll suck. I think that he's probably got a couple of solid Years left.
20 ~ But his YPC numbers strongly suggest that he peaked 3 Years ago.
21 ~ I'd like to have'm...but for far less than I think he'll command.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Yeah not getting my hopes up Denver has been killing free agency past few years.

with C.J. Anderson on there team i dont think they are looking to sign a vet RB they need the money to keep that defense in place but the packers are a other story and it would give him 2 games vs his old team

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Couldn't disagree more, and when it comes to, letting players develop I stay with them much longer than the vast majority of people, too long in to many cases, but I also know rookie running backs are a total crapshoot and that Christine Michaels in not in any way shape or form the answer and would never bet my season on him which is what you apparently willing to do. Pimping. Christine Michaels while acting like Forte is a JAG just makes you look ignorant. As for run blocking OL Shaq Mason is as good a prospect as you will find and I wouldn't pay 50 million dollars for Osemele.

You want a JAG then good for you, I don't want a repeat of the second half of this year when Brady got killed because he was throwing every down and replacing the interior OL with pricey free agents isn't going to happen. Getting a proven back is the answer and they are there to be had.

And if you think Brandon Bolden is better than Chris Ivory you really don't watch football.

You seem to like to throw insults around when people disagree with you. Why? Nothing wrong with having some good philosophical/analytical discussion about disagreements on personnel/needs/etc.

You're entitled to your opinion, but in my mind, you have no idea what you're talking about.

You seem more caught up in fantasy football stats and name value than on field performance/potential. This is not Madden where you go and sign Matt Forte because he's rated an 88 and has good catching skills.

You can look at his stats and tell me all the wonderful things he's done, i don't care. When i watched him play this year, he looked like he was starting to show signs of wear and tear. Not the same player he was years ago. And not worth the type of cash you're talking about IMO.

You can give me your rhetoric about him "wanting to win" and how he still put up good stats on a bad team, but that's the same garbage people were trying to sell about Frank Gore last year. If you actually watched Gore play last year and didn't just go based on reputation and stats, It would be obvious that he was close to being done and not close to player he once was.

Your assessment of Chris Ivory is way off. Stop getting caught up in the announcers calling him a battering ram and seeing him pumped up as a good get in fantasy football. Watch the guy play for five games. Almost every single rush of his is 2-3 yards where he smacks into his own OL like how Maroney used to. The guy has poor vision. Once a game he'll bust a 25-30 yard run thru a gaping hole which will bring his YPA up near 4.0. If given the choice of Bolden or Ivory, i would definitely choose Bolden. You can get Bolden for a much better price and he's far more versatile with his ability to catch the ball and play special teams.

Do you honestly think that having Matt Forte or Chris Ivory in the backfield Would have changed anything in Denver?

I don't. Our offensive line was getting blown off the ball completely on almost every play. Any time a RB was handed the ball, there was immediate penetration with no where to go. Our five man offensive line was getting worked by a three man defensive front. I don't care if you have Adrian Peterson -- With that type of line play, you're not running the ball effectively regardless of who is in the backfield.

Bottom line: Upgrading the personnel on the offensive line is more important than getting a "stud RB." Not only does the OL protect Brady, it dictates how well you run the ball.

A good example of this from this year can be seen when you look at Demarco Murray and Darren McFadden. Murray had a fabulous season with Dallas in 2014, signs with Philly and is absolutely abysmal. McFadden has been deemed a JAG, done, fragile, soft, overrated yet gets signed by Dallas and has his best season in years despite playing they majority of the season with Matt Cassel as his QB - AKA no real passing threat at QB.

How does this happen? Offensive line play. Dallas' offensive line is one of the best in the league, Philly's is one of the worst.

Philly went out and got that "stud RB" yet could not run the ball at all. He's wasting away. When the OL can't get any push or open any holes, it doesn't matter who you have back there.

Dallas kept its very good OL in place and brought in a mid-level RB replacement, and got excellent production out of him especially when you consider how poor their QB play was.

OL > RB. Stop getting caught up in names. Our problem hasn't been that we don't have a Doug Martin or Chris Ivory. Our problem has been that we lost excellent offensive lineman like Brian Waters and Logan Mankins over the last few years and haven't found capable replacements yet.

 

[PatsfanCP]

You seem to like to throw insults around when people disagree with you. Why? Nothing wrong with having some good philosophical/analytical discussion about disagreements on personnel/needs/etc.

You're entitled to your opinion, but in my mind, you have no idea what you're talking about.

You seem more caught up in fantasy football stats and name value than on field performance/potential. This is not Madden where you go and sign Matt Forte because he's rated an 88 and has good catching skills.

You can look at his stats and tell me all the wonderful things he's done, i don't care. When i watched him play this year, he looked like he was starting to show signs of wear and tear. Not the same player he was years ago. And not worth the type of cash you're talking about IMO.

You can give me your rhetoric about him "wanting to win" and how he still put up good stats on a bad team, but that's the same garbage people were trying to sell about Frank Gore last year. If you actually watched Gore play last year and didn't just go based on reputation and stats, It would be obvious that he was close to being done and not close to player he once was.

Your assessment of Chris Ivory is way off. Stop getting caught up in the announcers calling him a battering ram and seeing him pumped up as a good get in fantasy football. Watch the guy play for five games. Almost every single rush of his is 2-3 yards where he smacks into his own OL like how Maroney used to. The guy has poor vision. Once a game he'll bust a 25-30 yard run thru a gaping hole which will bring his YPA up near 4.0. If given the choice of Bolden or Ivory, i would definitely choose Bolden. You can get Bolden for a much better price and he's far more versatile with his ability to catch the ball and play special teams.

Do you honestly think that having Matt Forte or Chris Ivory in the backfield Would have changed anything in Denver?

I don't. Our offensive line was getting blown off the ball completely on almost every play. Any time a RB was handed the ball, there was immediate penetration with no where to go. Our five man offensive line was getting worked by a three man defensive front. I don't care if you have Adrian Peterson -- With that type of line play, you're not running the ball effectively regardless of who is in the backfield.

Bottom line: Upgrading the personnel on the offensive line is more important than getting a "stud RB." Not only does the OL protect Brady, it dictates how well you run the ball.

A good example of this from this year can be seen when you look at Demarco Murray and Darren McFadden. Murray had a fabulous season with Dallas in 2014, signs with Philly and is absolutely abysmal. McFadden has been deemed a JAG, done, fragile, soft, overrated yet gets signed by Dallas and has his best season in years despite playing they majority of the season with Matt Cassel as his QB - AKA no real passing threat at QB.

How does this happen? Offensive line play. Dallas' offensive line is one of the best in the league, Philly's is one of the worst.

Philly went out and got that "stud RB" yet could not run the ball at all. He's wasting away. When the OL can't get any push or open any holes, it doesn't matter who you have back there.

Dallas kept its very good OL in place and brought in a mid-level RB replacement, and got excellent production out of him especially when you consider how poor their QB play was.

OL > RB. Stop getting caught up in names. Our problem hasn't been that we don't have a Doug Martin or Chris Ivory. Our problem has been that we lost excellent offensive lineman like Brian Waters and Logan Mankins over the last few years and haven't found capable replacements yet.

i dont think bill will go out and get offensive lineman i think the patriots will just try to operate in house with solider coming back

 

[SEA_Pat]

I think Matt Forte at a Gore-like deal is a winner. But we're overlooking the biggest issue, which remains getting the coaching staff in place that can turn what we have around. Last year was always going to be hard with the injuries and turnover on the line, but I think what Belichek found unforgivable was the inability to adjust in the big games in hostile environments due to lack of preparation. I don't think we're going to see major changes in personnel but I'm expecting significant changes due to the coaching, and some possible issues early on dealing with them.

I don't think Cristine Michael or Chris Ivory are better options than Forte. Forte can play all three downs and won't be used to the same extent he has been on the Bears. He gets tough yards, picks up blitzes, rarely fumbles and is a great safety valve out of the backfield. He has a nose for the end zone.

 

[meatface]

There are always good HalfBacks in the Middle Rounds...and far beyond.

names? most of these guys arent able to come in and make an imediate impact, I dont care how they get them but they need someone who can actually run the ball; nobody on this roster can.

 

[Off The Grid]

Id like to find a ridley type in the draft too but there arent many good running backs in the middle rounds of the draft.

There are always good HalfBacks in the Middle Rounds...and far beyond.

names? most of these guys arent able to come in and make an imediate impact, I dont care how they get them but they need someone who can actually run the ball; nobody on this roster can.

Yeah, Lewis can't run at all.

Do your own Work.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think Matt Forte at a Gore-like deal is a winner. But we're overlooking the biggest issue, which remains getting the coaching staff in place that can turn what we have around. Last year was always going to be hard with the injuries and turnover on the line, but I think what Belichek found unforgivable was the inability to adjust in the big games in hostile environments due to lack of preparation. I don't think we're going to see major changes in personnel but I'm expecting significant changes due to the coaching, and some possible issues early on dealing with them.

I don't think Cristine Michael or Chris Ivory are better options than Forte. Forte can play all three downs and won't be used to the same extent he has been on the Bears. He gets tough yards, picks up blitzes, rarely fumbles and is a great safety valve out of the backfield. He has a nose for the end zone.

Gore's deal is basically a 2yr/9.5m. Won't happen here.

If Forte wants to play here he'll need to be satisfied with 1/2 of what Gore got from the Indy Idiots.

 

[Gronk]

Gore's deal is basically a 2yr/9.5m. Won't happen here.

If Forte wants to play here he'll need to be satisfied with 1/2 of what Gore got from the Indy Idiots.

I don't think it's totally out there as a number.

****'s sake Marcus Cannon got an extension of 2 yr/$9m/$3.2m guaranteed. That's a backup swing tackle (or maybe at that point they expected him to start at G, I don't recall). But still. If Forte is amenable to something like that at or around the Gore range with incentives (as outlined by Miguel's proposal), they'd be foolish to not at least seriously consider it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think it's totally out there as a number.

$4.75m/yr for Forte? Sigh....I just don't see them forking over that kind of dough for a 30yr old RB. The did that for Dillon in 2005, paid him $10m+ for 2 years and he was not even 1/2 of what he was in 04. I LOVE Forte, though. I want him here badly.

****'s sake Marcus Cannon got an extension of 2 yr/$9m/$3.2m guaranteed. That's a backup swing tackle (or maybe at that point they expected him to start at G, I don't recall). But still. If Forte is amenable to something like that at or around the Gore range with incentives (as outlined by Miguel's proposal), they'd be foolish to not at least seriously consider it.

I understand how the money is in line but really can't compare the two players. Cannon was coming off a 2013 in which he played very well and was insurance if Vollmer didn't stick around. Clearly he is erratic. Marybe Scar can get him back to what we saw in 2013.

I don't remember Miguel's proposal but I'd do Forte at $2m + incentives in 2016 + signing bonus spread over 2 years bringing the deal ~$4m payout in 2016 but if he is cooked they can cut him and have a palatable cap hit in 2017.

 

[Ivan]

This is a good Thread, by the way. Props to the OP, our divergent Perspectives notwithstanding.

01 ~ I'm sure that we all agree that Matt Forte has been a tremendous PowerBack for many Years.
02 ~ And it goes without saying that for the right Price, Forte would be a great addition.
03 ~ But that would be true of many Free Agents.

04 ~ Therefore, it seems to clearly come down to two things, yes?
05 ~ What would we have to pay to get'm?
06 ~ And what would we get?

07 ~ Corey Dillon was 29, going into 2004.
08 ~ Matt Forte will be 30, going into 2016.
09 ~ If you don't think that that's a substantial Difference, you haven't done your HomeWork.

10 ~ However, Frank Gore was 32, going into 2015.
11 ~ And that is an enormous Difference.
12 ~ Lead HalfBacks age rapidly.

13 ~ History tells us that most Lead HalfBacks slow down, often, substantially, at about 29.
14 ~ Ladanian Tomlinson was spectacular at 28...and sucked at 29. Look it up.
15 ~ Shaun Alexander was phenomenal at 28...and sucked at 29.

16 ~ There is no hard and fast rule: Barry Sanders was sensational at 29.
17 ~ And Dillon had his Swan Song with us at 29 before fading fast.
18 ~ But Matt Forte will be 30.

19 ~ I'm not saying that he'll suck. I think that he's probably got a couple of solid Years left.
20 ~ But his YPC numbers strongly suggest that he peaked 3 Years ago.
21 ~ I'd like to have'm...but for far less than I think he'll command.

Good post, I like Forte more than you and believe he has good years left and fits their need perfectly. I am probably in the minority but I believe the problems with their run game and projection are a result of both injuries and not having a really good running back on first and second downs. They literally could not run the ball against a good defense so defenses teed off on them and the OL got beat and Brady beaten up. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see Belichick make a significant in the RB unit this off-season because he knows they cannot end up in the same situation next season. We will see how he approached the offseason, if nothing else it should be interesting. Last off-season they really didn't have much to spend but this year they are in a position of strength and they should make the most of it.

 

[Gronk]

$4.75m/yr for Forte? Sigh....I just don't see them forking over that kind of dough for a 30yr old RB. The did that for Dillon in 2005, paid him $10m+ for 2 years and he was not even 1/2 of what he was in 04. I LOVE Forte, though. I want him here badly.



I understand how the money is in line but really can't compare the two players. Cannon was coming off a 2013 in which he played very well and was insurance if Vollmer didn't stick around. Clearly he is erratic. Marybe Scar can get him back to what we saw in 2013.

I don't remember Miguel's proposal but I'd do Forte at $2m + incentives in 2016 + signing bonus spread over 2 years bringing the deal ~$4m payout in 2016 but if he is cooked they can cut him and have a palatable cap hit in 2017.

What you suggested is like a 2 yr version of Miguel's 3 yr proposal.

I def see where people are coming from being reticent about the team putting big money into a 30 yr old RB. Sometimes you have to operate with some risk. I'm not a "THE WINDOW IS CLOSING" guy at all, but just because it's gonna cost more than usual or more than is ideal doesn't mean there isn't a great value to be had.

NE has suffered worse dead money hits than taking a shot on Matt Forte on a team that has a big need at RB.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What you suggested is like a 2 yr version of Miguel's 3 yr proposal.

I def see where people are coming from being reticent about the team putting big money into a 30 yr old RB. Sometimes you have to operate with some risk. I'm not a "THE WINDOW IS CLOSING" guy at all, but just because it's gonna cost more than usual or more than is ideal doesn't mean there isn't a great value to be had.

NE has suffered worse dead money hits than taking a shot on Matt Forte on a team that has a big need at RB.

Ok on Miguel's proposal. As Grid said RBs tend to fall off a cliff. Need to be real careful.

Forte didn't have any major injuries last year but he was injured fairly regularly with a back and 2 or 3 knee issues so that needs to be checked out and determined is it attributed to wear and tear and a lighter workload is the cure or is he 75% of what he was? Don;t know.

Dead money is reality. I think the team has proven it is ok with some but not a crazy amount. For example they will not accept $4m in 2017 dead money for Forte if he sucks in 2016. $1m might be more reasonable.

 

[Ivan]

You seem to like to throw insults around when people disagree with you. Why? Nothing wrong with having some good philosophical/analytical discussion about disagreements on personnel/needs/etc.

You're entitled to your opinion, but in my mind, you have no idea what you're talking about.

You seem more caught up in fantasy football stats and name value than on field performance/potential. This is not Madden where you go and sign Matt Forte because he's rated an 88 and has good catching skills.

You can look at his stats and tell me all the wonderful things he's done, i don't care. When i watched him play this year, he looked like he was starting to show signs of wear and tear. Not the same player he was years ago. And not worth the type of cash you're talking about IMO.

You can give me your rhetoric about him "wanting to win" and how he still put up good stats on a bad team, but that's the same garbage people were trying to sell about Frank Gore last year. If you actually watched Gore play last year and didn't just go based on reputation and stats, It would be obvious that he was close to being done and not close to player he once was.

Your assessment of Chris Ivory is way off. Stop getting caught up in the announcers calling him a battering ram and seeing him pumped up as a good get in fantasy football. Watch the guy play for five games. Almost every single rush of his is 2-3 yards where he smacks into his own OL like how Maroney used to. The guy has poor vision. Once a game he'll bust a 25-30 yard run thru a gaping hole which will bring his YPA up near 4.0. If given the choice of Bolden or Ivory, i would definitely choose Bolden. You can get Bolden for a much better price and he's far more versatile with his ability to catch the ball and play special teams.

Do you honestly think that having Matt Forte or Chris Ivory in the backfield Would have changed anything in Denver?

I don't. Our offensive line was getting blown off the ball completely on almost every play. Any time a RB was handed the ball, there was immediate penetration with no where to go. Our five man offensive line was getting worked by a three man defensive front. I don't care if you have Adrian Peterson -- With that type of line play, you're not running the ball effectively regardless of who is in the backfield.

Bottom line: Upgrading the personnel on the offensive line is more important than getting a "stud RB." Not only does the OL protect Brady, it dictates how well you run the ball.

A good example of this from this year can be seen when you look at Demarco Murray and Darren McFadden. Murray had a fabulous season with Dallas in 2014, signs with Philly and is absolutely abysmal. McFadden has been deemed a JAG, done, fragile, soft, overrated yet gets signed by Dallas and has his best season in years despite playing they majority of the season with Matt Cassel as his QB - AKA no real passing threat at QB.

How does this happen? Offensive line play. Dallas' offensive line is one of the best in the league, Philly's is one of the worst.

Philly went out and got that "stud RB" yet could not run the ball at all. He's wasting away. When the OL can't get any push or open any holes, it doesn't matter who you have back there.

Dallas kept its very good OL in place and brought in a mid-level RB replacement, and got excellent production out of him especially when you consider how poor their QB play was.

OL > RB. Stop getting caught up in names. Our problem hasn't been that we don't have a Doug Martin or Chris Ivory. Our problem has been that we lost excellent offensive lineman like Brian Waters and Logan Mankins over the last few years and haven't found capable replacements yet.

Couldn't disagree more and I don't care about numbers, never have. When you claim Brandon Bolden is a better RB than Chris Ivory you lose all credibility. You then amended it to basically say he's a better deal but even then you are pretty much the only person who would take Bolden over Ivory. And while losing guys like Mankins always hurts they have restocked the interior OL with good young players imo and need a quality RB or possibly 2 to give them the run game they will need against good defenses. I think they will get much more out of a RB who can get 1,200 yards and catch 80 ballad out of the backfield and only costs 4-5 million a season than they can out of a guard who gets 8+.

When you are touting Christine Micheal over Matt Forte based on Micheals college career you shouldn't expect much support or agreement and you shouldn't be trying to call others out for "not watching football" when you are actually deliberately ignoring Michaels play in the pros.

You want jags at RB and I want a proven RB, that's not "getting caught up in names" it's going with those who we know can get it done over taking a big chance on those. who haven't, and I want them to spend to get a really good back. nothing is going to change that now we just wait and see what Belichick does.

 

[Banjo]

I think Matt Forte has one good year left in him. For that reason I want him (at a fair price of course).

I just want depth at RB. Lewis, Forte, and a rookie from the draft that could develop into the starter two seasons from now would be ideal IMO.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok on Miguel's proposal. As Grid said RB's tend to fall off a cliff. Need to be real careful.

Forte didn't have any major injuries last year but he was injured fairly regularly with a back and 2 or 3 knee issues so that needs to be checked out and determined is it attributed to wear and tear and a lighter workload is the cure or is he 75% of what he was? Don;t know.

Dead money is reality. I think the team has proven it is ok with some but not a crazy amount. For example they will not accept $4m in 2017 dead money for Forte if he sucks in 2016. $1m might be more reasonable.

I would like to think that BB has learned a lesson, and is now more worried about Brady's eventually to be dead career than about dead money for a RB.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I would like to think that BB has learned a lesson, and is now more worried about Brady's eventually to be dead career than about dead money for a RB.

Agreed. If I see him get thrown to the ground 10 times a game this team will not make it out of the 1st round.

 

[Off The Grid]

You seem to like to throw insults around when people disagree with you. Why? Nothing wrong with having some good philosophical/analytical discussion about disagreements on personnel/needs/etc.

Yeah, for what it's worth, Brother Ivan: You know that I'm a Fan of Yours, but Brother 79 is making strong and reasonable Arguments, and ~ disagree though you obviously do ~ I think you've been out'f line, here.

 

[meatface]

Yeah, Lewis can't run at all.

Do your own Work.

I haven't seen one running back I like in the mid rounds and Lewis is coming off his only success in the nil, which was half a season, and he tore his acl.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Couldn't disagree more and I don't care about numbers, never have. When you claim Brandon Bolden is a better RB than Chris Ivory you lose all credibility. You then amended it to basically say he's a better deal but even then you are pretty much the only person who would take Bolden over Ivory. And while losing guys like Mankins always hurts they have restocked the interior OL with good young players imo and need a quality RB or possibly 2 to give them the run game they will need against good defenses. I think they will get much more out of a RB who can get 1,200 yards and catch 80 ballad out of the backfield and only costs 4-5 million a season than they can out of a guard who gets 8+.

When you are touting Christine Micheal over Matt Forte based on Micheals college career you shouldn't expect much support or agreement and you shouldn't be trying to call others out for "not watching football" when you are actually deliberately ignoring Michaels play in the pros.

You want jags at RB and I want a proven RB, that's not "getting caught up in names" it's going with those who we know can get it done over taking a big chance on those. who haven't, and I want them to spend to get a really good back. nothing is going to change that now we just wait and see what Belichick does.

We're not going to find common ground here, just gonna have to agree to disagree. Just to clear up a few things:

I am not touting Christine Michael over Matt Forte strictly based on college film. Yes, it plays a role, but I am also basing it off what I've seen of him in the pros. He has had limited opportunities, but when given them, he has looked very good. Not every guy that you pursue in this league has eight years worth of obvious stats/production to go on. It is a similar projection to that of Michael Turner when he was behind LT. In the small samples seen of him, he looked like a guy that could be a good feature back to me. Atlanta saw that and gave him that chance, and it worked out. That's my point with Christine Michael or some other younger RB in the draft. I'd rather go down that route and bring in 2-3 guys like that than chase these nicked up 30 year olds with bodies with lots of tread on them.

You keep talking about how many times Michael has been cut. So what. Thats not how you judge a player. I guess you were saying the same thing about Dion Lewis? Look at how well he performed here when given the chance.

I stand by my statements on Bolden. I simply would prefer to have him over Ivory. Chris Ivory is not a good running back. Middle of the pack guy at best. Go re-watch some Jets games. You are overrating him because you've seen him have mild success with a rival team in the division. If he came to New England, you'd be very disappointed with him. Maroney 2.0. The same thing happened with Shonn Greene. New England fans overrated him as well.

The offensive line is more important than who you have in the backfield. Most football people would agree with this sentiment. It's why offensive lineman still go routinely in the top half of the first round of the draft and running backs fall every year. It's why top tier tackles and guards are more valuable than upper echelon running backs. It doesn't matter if you have a JAG back there or a veteran stud, if your O-Line can't get any push or open any holes, you're doomed.

The Demarco Murray story is a great example of that. You don't want to recognize this point and that's fine. But the fact of the matter is even if you bring in your Matt Forte, if this OL can't open holes for him, he's not going to succeed.

This debate has run its course. No need to clog up the board continuing to debate our difference of opinions. We will see what happens this off-season and see how it plays out next season.