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Postgame Thoughts

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats1, Nov 6, 2006.

  1. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That was certainly a tough one to swallow. Deep breathing as Vinatieri lined up, jubilation as it sailed wide. With a quick strike to Watson, the Pats were in prime position to send it to OT. But just as quickly...

    It was over.

    And how fitting Denny Green's quote seems today:

    "The [Colts] are who we thought they were! And we let them off the hook!"

    How true.

    -The Pats let them off the hook, simply by ABANDONING the running game come the second half. Abysmal! Enough screwing with the reverses and pound some Dillon and Maroney up the middle! The Colts proved they couldn't stop it.

    -Brady looked just like he did vs. Denver. Sailing passes dangerously into coverage each and every time.

    -Antoine Bethea. Hindsight is 20/20, but I'd rather have this guy than Mincey (picked about 20 spots higher), especially considering the secondary injury problems. Chad Scott and Hawkins at safety couldn't help but bring back memories of last year against Indy, when Gay and Stone were lined up deep. Bethea and Sanders were EVERYWHERE. That Cover-2 ate up the receivers deep, forcing the underneath throws that were tipped again and again.

    -Marvin Harrison is one of the best receivers we have seen in our lifetimes. That was one amazing catch.

    -With that said, CB (along with LB) has to be a focus in the draft. I have no problem with Samuel and Hobbs, but depth is DESPERATELY needed.

    -Did Vanderjagt hijack Vinatieri and Manning hijack Brady? The former Pat and the current Pat choked in those last 2 minutes.

    -Just like after Denver, Brady in his press conference did something to piss me off. He was smiling and smirking like it was some ******* preseason game! And was laughing and joking with Peyton immediately after blowing the biggest game of the regular season! A *****slap needed.

    -Great job by the Pats' front seven stopping the run, but their blitz was surprising thwarted by a *mobile* Peyton Manning with receivers seemingly at the right place in the right time.

    -I should have known. In good weather, the Colts have had pretty damn good recent success at Foxboro, even in the 2004 opener which took a Vandershank for them to lose. Let's see what Peyton does in January before we anoint him the King of Foxboro. It might not even have to come to New England @ Indy in the A.F.C. Championship. I wouldn't be surprised if they were knocked early again.

    -The officiating was downright awful. For the both sides. Winters was dysfunctional. From Brown's taunting to Brady's "first down" to multiple other penalties, it had a negative effect for both teams.

    -You can't blame Faulk for that last play. How is this an accurate pass? :

    http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faulkmissdb3.jpg

    http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faulkmiss2cs5.jpg

    -The Pats NEEDED to get the points off turnovers! If they used the momentum from Hawkins' strip, Scott's INT, Vinatieri's misses, etc., they would have WON this!

    -The Pats need to be VERY careful about next week. The Jets aren't a pushover. A loss would put the Pats at 6-3, and suddenly right back in the pack.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2006
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If the coaches have so little confidence in S&H that we have to give 10 yard cushions, I do have a problem with them.

    He was probably trying to avoid another week of "bad body language" talk :rolleyes:

    Yep. Colvin's late hit was also crap because he couldn't stop after a late whistle. If he'd just stood there and the Colt had broken free we'd have been yelling "PLAY TO THE WHISTLE" - but you do and they throw a flag.

    Yeah, they had ample opportunities and simply couldn't take advantage of them. Very, very disappointing.

    Screw that, the jesters just lost to the Browns. The Browns. Right now the Patriots are a good team that's not good enough to beat the elite (hopefully that will change and we'll start to beat the elite). If we can't beat the jesters at home we're no more than average.
  3. Johnny Mac

    Johnny Mac Rookie

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    Yes I can. He's got both hands on it. He needs to catch it.
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pats 1 - You need to get over the Faulk binky thing. Really. Brady has earned a lot more slack based on past performance vs. screwups. Try capturing the frame before that first one too - where the ball is bisecting his hands. Our receivers occasonally make great catches. Manning's make them routinely. The maddening thing is when we can't make the routine catch.

    The game plan was ill conceived. We didn't play to our strength vs. their weakness. We likely let a blowout win against an inferior NFC pass defense skewer our perception of what this receiving corps could and couldn't do. Not to mention buying into Manning angst that apparently had coaches and players over reaching and forcing calls and plays. These new receivers remain the not ready for prime time players unless they are facing a team flawed on both sides of the ball. Luckily they have 8 more weeks to develop. Even CJ should be able to muster more than a cameo by then.

    BTW Richard and Tedy sounded pretty chipper on WEEI today too. Damn them. Unlike in 2005 when a .500 team acted like their dog just died. They know they all screwed up to some extent, including a defense that gave up 5 first downs on third down penalties (phantom or otherwise) but at 6-2 with a cupcake schedule left including the fraudulent 7-1 Bears, they are not going to kvetch like the chicken little fan base. They are going to go back to work.

    PS. Tedy called his "very close friend" Adam as the Colts bussed to the airport last night to catch up after the game and wish him well. Even ribbed him about the misses. THEY AREN'T ENEMIES TO EACH OTHER, only to a juvenile fan base mentality.
  5. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As they say, "past performance does not guarantee future results."

    Just because Brady is one of the greatest QBs of All-Time doesn't mean he can make a poor throw.

    Faulk was less than 10 yards from Brady. Sitting underneath. Wide open. Little pressure.

    That ball should have been square in the numbers. Or at the very least, targeted for a body part of Faulk.

    Instead, a 5-foot-10 Faulk had to extend his arms all the way into the air, just to get a piece of it.

    With that said, Faulk did get his hands on that one. He should have caught it. But giving Brady the benefit of the doubt on this single play because of what he did months and years ago just doesn't work.

    I find it a tad bit disturbing how some are so eager to heap blame on Faulk after every single TEAM miscue. Same thing goes for Pass. The Pats don't hold grudges against players for bad plays in the PAST (Faulk's Denver fumble, Pass' Buffalo fumble, etc.).

    The requested frame:

    [​IMG]

    If Faulk was an inch or two taller, the result last night may have been different.

    Also notice how Faulk has left the ground. Should that be necessary for a stationary receiver sitting wide open on a short underneath route, with no close defenders and without any considerable pressure on the QB?

    The answer is no.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2006
  6. brady2brown

    brady2brown Rookie

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    He is not an "enemy" to us either, but by definition fans cheer for their team, not the opposing team. You may not like the idea of fans cheering only for their team, and it may not be your idea of how people should watch sports, but that doesn't make it juvenile, Mr. Poopy Head. We are very adult.
  7. brady2brown

    brady2brown Rookie

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    I find it a tad bit disturbing how some are so eager to heap blame on Faulk after every single TEAM miscue. [/QUOTE]Who blamed him for anything other than not catching a pass that hit him in the hands? He makes enough good plays in enough games that we forget the horrible fumbles and dropped passes that absolutely kill us in other games.

    Yeah, if Brady hit him in the numbers every time, he might catch more passes, but you know what? In the NFL you need to do more than stand still and wait for a QB to hit you between the numbers. There are about 32 third down backs or fewer playing professional ball in this country. There are about 32,000 guys who can catch balls that hit them in the chest. Faulk is definately in the latter category, but he sure isn't one of the top 32 third dwon backs in the country.

    Maybe if we activate Pass (I just read again that he was practicing) we can let Faulk sit a while, at least for the next game so we can keep our not-losing-two-games-in-a-row streak intact.

    Man, I sure wish Faulk wasn't active yesterday.

    Don't you wish Brady had thrown toward Troy Brown or Benjamin Watson on that last play? I sure do.
  8. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh, I know it's just a travesty that a RB does his job and finds a void underneath and sits in it to occupy the defense. Damn shame, I tell you. What a horrible way to attack a zone defense.

    The only reason it hit him in the hands is because he had to leap and extend to catch a 5-yard pass.

    Great, keep your best blitz-pickup guy and best option out of the backfield on the bench because some inexplicable notion around this fanbase that Faulk fumbles too much to be an NFL player.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2006
  9. g-fresh

    g-fresh Rookie

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    Last nights game really reminded me of the Denver game, our Pats just kept making mistake after mistake and although they are good enough to hang in there while doing so they will never beat a good team like the Colts if they play like that. Anyway here are some of my thoughts on last nights game:

    The bad:

    How many times did we move the chains for them after making a big stop on third down? A stop against the Colts offense is huge, but you will never stop anyone if you let them off with a little penalty away from the play. That was really the story of the night for me, instead of finding a way to win like they usually do they kept finding ways to let themselves down. There are countless examples of this, but one that stuck with me is the play where Samuel's INT in the end zone was called off because of illegal contact. There was no reason for him to grab Wayne like that he had position on him and he easily made the pick when Manning threw it up. It seems like maybe the coaches said to be physical with the receivers but the secondary didn't quite get the message.

    I feel like the offense never got it going after those second quarter touchdowns. Its very disappointing but it seems that after a great game against a solid defense that the receivers took a big step backwards, and the passing game was off all night. In my opinion the receivers cost them this game, they were not getting open and I think it showed in Brady's play. Troy had five catches with Gabriel having two and Caldwell and Jackson each having one. That is not going to work, and I think its a pretty good indicator of how poorly they did at getting open.

    The worst part is how the receivers caused two huge turnovers with Watson completely misplaying that deep pass and batting it up high which was the only way it could have been picked, and Faulk making a mistake at the worst possible moment. In my view those plays are 100% on the receivers, Watson should have kept running instead of turning around and at worst let it drop for an incomplete, and although Faulk makes that catch 99 times out of 100, last night was the 100. Neither ball was thrown perfectly but its the NFL and neither of those plays required anything spectacular.

    As for Brady it seemed that he was off all night, and that he was trying to force the big play. While the other INTs are on the receivers the first one is 100% Brady's fault as he said in his press conference. Maybe going 5 wide in the shotgun hid some of the problems the receivers had against the Vikings but from what I could tell whenever he went to pass he spent a lot of time looking at covered receivers I almost got the feeling that the passing game was so good last week that they didn't work on it this week like they had been and suffered for it during the game.

    I hate to go NEM on you guys but it seemed like the offensive game plan was just not very good. Granted missing Neal and Graham is going to really hurt the blocking, but it seemed like the Colt's made adjustments on defense at the half and the Pats just couldn't counter them. Obviously turning the ball over 5 times will make it tough to get any kind of offensive rhythm going but they really did seem out coached on offense. I know everyone has been saying it, but what were they doing trying to throw screen passes against a defense that is small and fast? Why were they throwing 3 straight downs when they averaged 4.5 ypc? Frankly it seemed like McDaniel's panicked when they were getting stopped in the second half and the only thing he could come up with was a lame Charlie Weiss imitation.

    As much as I hate to say it where were the routes over the middle? I have to watch the game again but it seemed like they were trying to work the sidelines which is that defenses strength. Again I'm going off memory from last night so I could be completely wrong about this, but no matter what there were big problems in the passing game. At one point Brady tried to run for a first down, you know things are bad when he pulls it down and tries to run for it.

    My theory is that Belichick spent so much time on defense preparing for this game that Josh McDaniel's was more on his own and it showed. I've had McDaniel's back for most of the season and we were all high on him after a great game against Minnesota but the offense really cost them the game so I'm a bit on the fence now.

    The good:

    The defense held them to 10 points in the second half, which against the Colts with both your starting safeties out is pretty good. They did a decent job getting pressure on Manning, although it seems like he has really worked on throwing on the move and handling the pressure better. The Payton Manning of a few years ago would have been rattled and started throwing picks.

    They held the Colts to 53 yards on 25 carries and when they were milking the clock at the end of the game they forced them to really pull some crazy pass plays out of their asses to move the chains because they simply could not run the ball to save their lives. This may seem like its not a big deal but when you stop the run cold when you expect pass every down is saying something.

    They made a few big stops on third down then had little penalties away from the play that moved the chains. Some of those calls were pretty iffy too (Vrabel's invisible hands to the face anyone?) so that is something positive that can be taken away.

    The biggest thing to me was that they maintained their composure after Rodney went down. They had to shuffle the secondary meaning that Ellis was on Marvin Harrison the whole game and Troy Brown was in on defense again, but it wasn't like last year when they just disintegrated when Rodney was out.

    The ground attack was good, 4.5 ypc should equal success on offense. This was with Neal and Graham both being out, and they are big parts of the running game. The three headed monster worked beautifully with each back playing their role well. The pass blocking was pretty good as well, especially considering that the Colt's D line specializes in rushing the passer. Any time you don't give up a sack is a pretty good job, although Brady did have to move in the pocket a bit more than against the Vikings.

    This is getting long and I'm starting to forget some of the points I was going to make so I'm just going to post this now even though I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out. :)
  10. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    It was a poor pass by Brady, but Faulk still MUST make that catch. The still images don't do it justice, it wasn't like Brady threw a laser, it was a soft pass that Faulk should have caught, and he does catch 9/10 times. Not only that, Faulk has caught many much more poorly thrown balls through the years, we've come to expect Faulk making that grab and turning it into 15 yards, frankly, the second Brady released the ball, I envisioned us at the 20.

    This drop was amplified by the fact that he dropped a potential TD on the previous possession. No one is blaming the game on Faulk, if they are, they are being silly - he is one of many players who made costly mistakes in the game, we should neither ignore his mistakes nor crucify him for them.

    Heck, if I were placing blame, he'd certainly fall beneath Brady, Belichick, Josh McDaniels, Ellis Hobbs, the officiating crew and John Madden.
  11. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Had Brady tried to zip that pass in on Faulks numbers and had another one tipped you'd be complaining about that too. Colts defenders were extending their arms all night. Might have been better in hindsight if Faulk just turned around so Brady could have hit him in the ass.

    For $2.5M per year Faulk should extend more than his arms. The difference between Brady's targets most nights and Mannings is they make plays for their QB regardless of the level of extension required.

    I also find it a tad bit disturbing how some are so eager to heap blame on the QB after every single TEAM miscue. Including a piss poor game plan predicated on moving away from our strength and the opponents overwhelming weakness toward our own continuing weakness while only down by 3 on the heels of a first series defensive stop to open the second half.
  12. mosi

    mosi Rookie

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    Well, I went back and watched the game and actually feel much better about the game.

    Brady had issues but it was not all his fault. Case and point: That last play in the second half was a bad run by Watson. That is the almost the same play Branch ran in the 2004 AFC championship game against the steelers. Watson stopped short and tried to jump to catch it. What he should have done is run through and caught the ball the way Branch did.

    Offensively, what is missing are well timed screens and draws. We need to go back to those.

    The defense played much better in the second half and did a good job of keeping things in check.

    I actually feel more comfortable going on the road this year than playing at home. In the end, I think we could still end up 14-2 or at worst 12-4. We will have to go on the road, but I think we could do it.
  13. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot Rookie

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    Good post Pats1.

    The only slight area of disagreement I have concerns Samuel. I think he's more suited to be a nickel back. He and Hobbs were abused last night but then again, it is Harrison and Wanye. Best WR combo in football. Darrent Williams, who IMO is better than any CB on our roster, got abused by Wayne.

    I was actually kind of pleasantly surprised we got to Manning as much as we did. Of course when we didn't get to him, we paid dearly.
  14. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot Rookie

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    I respectfully disagree. The pass was high. He's a midget. Not a good combo. Watson did the same thing earlier in the game and they picked it.

    Furthermore, by the time that happened, we had already squandered about 4 or 5 opportunities to take control of the game, none of which had anything to do with Faulk, and everything to do with the ineptness of McDaniels and Brady.

    What I still dont understand is why he was in there in that situation. I was under the impression that when you want to win a game, you put your best players on the field. Apparently McDaniels and Co. out-thought themselves in that situation as well.

    Now if someone wanted to argue Faulk is jinxed, I would agree on that.

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