Post Game Thread- Pats @ Jets

[supafly]

I think people are taken aback by the insinuation that you feel the team is "falling apart", when they are 9-2 and the #1 seed. So are the Raiders "falling apart" as well? They almost lost to the Panthers. Are the Seahawks "falling apart" because they only scored 5 points against the Bucs AND LOST AT HOME? Injuries are as common as the cold. They have gotten through them to the tune of 9 wins. They got through them today even when it seemed grim. I don't know what else they can do.

Basically, like you said, just try and manage the injuries as well as possible, and continue to work on some of the weaknesses of the team. Hopefully, the injury situation won't be quite as bad as last year. In the meantime, the defense can obviously be improved upon in certain areas. As you know, the pressure and secondary play go hand in hand. It's difficult to cover without any pressure.

The expectations are high and last year's debacle is fresh in a lot of minds. Starting 10-0 only to win 2/6 to finish the year left a bad taste in the mouths of many. Having gone to 5 consecutive AFCCGs only to walk away with one SB victory may have some people bracing themselves for what they see as the inevitable, which is frustrating when it appears as though the same issues are continuing to resurface.

I'll take Belichick's approach with remaining consistent and playing the odds. The more 12-4 seasons you have should enable you to win more championships. He's not going to go "all in" and will remain focused on both the present AND the future, and I think we saw some of that with the decisions to part with Jones and Collins.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Omg you are right about cartoons clearly you can teach us all about football.

That was clearly an example and anyway, you don't need to be able to teach others about football to be right/wrong about football.

I expected negative feedback and that's fine. I always get negative feedback on my bold opinions.

 

[AtomicDawg]

Why would Oakland be falling apart at 9-2? That's their best record in a long time

I'm not saying New England can't win in January. I'm not saying we won't be 9-2(or 8-3 or whatever) to start the 2017 NFL season. I'm trying to say that I can see the cracks forming of the eventual end of this dynasty and I think it will be over by 2020. Brady is 39 (playing great) though making more mental mistakes recently.. granted he was injured today, Gronk is like glass and might be gone sooner than later, Gost is having issues (though other kickers do), and coaching errors seem to be occuring more often. There are other reasons too, but I can see the cracks. Maybe I'm wrong though because:

I am human. I'm not always right. I HOPE I AM WRONG! We'll see though. If I am proved wrong and this team is still dynamic and deadly by 2019-2020 then you all can laugh at me and put me in the dumb posts hall of shame

I think you are repeating yourself. You said the team is falling apart, so I pointed out other teams who have had close wins/losses who are hovering around the Pats' record.

1) For you to say someone is made of glass when that same player has played 36 of 38 possible games the last two years it's crazy. Once again, if he is "injury prone" all players are and that needs to be acknowledged.

2) While Brady has not been perfect or even up to his standards, he still has thrown 18 TDs to ONE interception this year. I'll take that over anybody else at this point.

Nobody is saying you aren't human. I would hope that I am talking to one right now. What I am saying is that why does this team have to have a 4-5 year waiting period for you? It is a strong possibility that they will do big things in January if health improves and other teams stumble, which has already seemed to happen somewhat. 2019-2020, this team will look totally different, just like the teams 4 years prior to this year look different. It isn't in a vaccum. This is what we have now, a flawed but resilient, darn good team. Why is that not good enough?

 

[supafly]

That was clearly an example and anyway, you don't need to be able to teach others about football to be right/wrong about football.

I expected negative feedback and that's fine. I always get negative feedback on my bold opinions.

I don't think anyone necessarily minds your opinion, only that you don't seem to have much more than a hunch in terms of backing it up. Stating that "the dynasty is coming to an end" isn't exactly an original thought, as many have been saying that for 10+ years now.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Belichick and company have consistently kept an eye on the future in terms of managing the salary cap, and that obviously helps keep a team in contention. For example, the Pats will have more available cap space (and a higher percentage of available space) this coming offseason than they've ever had before, so one could make a solid argument that the dynasty isn't coming to an end, but constantly being rebuilt on the fly. Just for ****s and giggles, let's ponder the thought of retaining Jimmy Garoppolo as the QB of the future. Would you still feel that they'll suddenly take a nose dive then?

 

[AtomicDawg]

Basically, like you said, just try and manage the injuries as well as possible, and continue to work on some of the weaknesses of the team. Hopefully, the injury situation won't be quite as bad as last year. In the meantime, the defense can obviously be improved upon in certain areas. As you know, the pressure and secondary play go hand in hand. It's difficult to cover without any pressure.

The expectations are high and last year's debacle is fresh in a lot of minds. Starting 10-0 only to win 2/6 to finish the year left a bad taste in the mouths of many. Having gone to 5 consecutive AFCCGs only to walk away with one SB victory may have some people bracing themselves for what they see as the inevitable, which is frustrating when it appears as though the same issues are continuing to resurface.

I'll take Belichick's approach with remaining consistent and playing the odds. The more 12-4 seasons you have should enable you to win more championships. He's not going to go "all in" and will remain focused on both the present AND the future, and I think we saw some of that with the decisions to part with Jones and Collins.

100% with you Supa. I definitely am part of the "man I wish one AFCCG or one SB turned out better". I can't tell you how many times I've watched the games that never happened .

 

[supafly]

100% with you Supa. I definitely am part of the "man I wish one AFCCG or one SB turned out better". I can't tell you how many times I've watched the games that never happened .

I think the current 2016 version is flawed, so I can certainly respect the views that state that. As a matter of fact, I have complained about certain things too, just not to the same level as some.

That said, I don't see too many teams right now that aren't flawed in some capacity, so sometimes we need to remind ourselves that being 9-2 (again) is a pretty good spot to be in, barring injury concerns, of course.

 

[Brewskies]

Thanks for the kind words. I haven't gotten much of the feeling back in the leg just yet, but I did have the same surgery that Gronk had, in terms of de-compressing the nerves that were being destroyed from the leaky material pressing on them. Luckily for him, he was very young at the time (only 19 yrs old in 2009) and seems to have recovered from that situation quite nicely.

I wish you the best in your battle, @Brewskies. Chronic back pain can be debilitating. I hope that yours can at least be "managed" with some of the pain pills and epidural shots. For me, the epidurals helped a lot (numbers 2 and 3---the first one didn't help at all), but sadly I could not avoid surgery in the end.

I share your concerns about it not being a championship year, believe me. That said, we can take comfort in knowing that our offense can usually hang in there with just about anyone, so we should have a shot come January--as usual. Will it be enough? Maybe/maybe not, but all we can do is try and enjoy the ride.

Superfly that's got to be tough and painful. I hope things change soon for the better. I am glad I couldn't have surgery and if I could it was less than 50% positive. In the past 3 1/2 years I have had 10 epidural shots some work and some don't and as I said eat a mild pain killer Tramadol 100 mg like candy every 8 hours with 650 mg of Tylenol to relieve the daily pain.

IMO the Pats will have another ugly win like the past two games, SF and Jets, against LA then struggle badly against Denver and Miami and have another ugly win against the Jets. Ending in probably 13-3 or 12-4 the playoffs will be a struggle.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I think you are repeating yourself. You said the team is falling apart, so I pointed out other teams who have had close wins/losses who are hovering around the Pats' record.

1) For you to say someone is made of glass when that same player has played 36 of 38 possible games the last two years it's crazy. Once again, if he is "injury prone" all players are and that needs to be acknowledged.

2) While Brady has not been perfect or even up to his standards, he still has thrown 18 TDs to ONE interception this year. I'll take that over anybody else at this point.

Nobody is saying you aren't human. I would hope that I am talking to one right now. What I am saying is that why does this team have to have a 4-5 year waiting period for you? It is a strong possibility that they will do big things in January if health improves and other teams stumble, which has already seemed to happen somewhat. 2019-2020, this team will look totally different, just like the teams 4 years prior to this year look different. It isn't in a vaccum. This is what we have now, a flawed but resilient, darn good team. Why is that not good enough?

I'm just repeating myself because its the point I'm trying to make. The teams you've showed me (Oakland and Seattle) are in different situations than our Patriots: They have quarterbacks that aren't 39 and Oakland especially have no way of being compared to us just because they have a 9-2 record. Completely different situation over in Oakland and the team has no current dynasty that could be fading.

Anyway, Gronk is made of glass because he's been injury prone since College. Every injury will eventually pile up and in my opinion will be gone by 2020-2021 as well. Brady on the other hand I pick over most quarterbacks obviously since he is the goat, but that doesn't mean potential cracks arent forming.

There's a lot of reasons why I see this dynasty is potentially ending but I will say @supafly - If Jimmy G is our QB of the future then I will feel more confident. That would mean he was groomed and time was taken on him. Though, time is ticking each passing year because I assume Jimmy G wants to play.

I get both of your points though. Its impossible to say I'm wrong or you're wrong as of 2016. I just don't think we'll be a dynasty level team in 2020 under Brady. We might be a decent team, but not a truly dynamic team like now.

 

[JMC00]

Oline needs to be addressed next season with serious talent. And I mean proven starts. Big, angry, tough a**holes that can command the trenches. Some have made the point "They were up against a great DLine!", which I don't discredit, but ask yourself, when is the last time Brady has had a SINGLE clean game where the Oline gave him time and didn't have him running around for his life? I can't remember one...

Brady was only pressured on 24% of his throws. But good job acting like what happened in the 1st quarter was what happened all game....

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Brady was only pressured on 24% of his throws. But good job acting like what happened in the 1st quarter was what happened all game....

Every time you post I can't help but imagine the girl in your avatar saying it because she has that "I know what I'm talking about" face.

Funny stuff.

 

[Ivan]

The great thing about the game thread is

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

Brady was only pressured on 24% of his throws. But good job acting like what happened in the 1st quarter was what happened all game....

Where do you get the pressure stat?

 

[Joker]

Pressures-R-Us

 

[Sciz]

Officially, Brady took two hits on the first two offensive plays and then two hits on the next 48 dropbacks combined.

 

[deroc5050]

Nah look at Gronks whole career he has missed a lot of games. And even when he plays at the end of the season he is banged up and it effects his play. He is so important for us to win the Super Bowl, I would only play him if he is 100% or at least 95% healthy. Edelman, Mitchell, Lewis, White, Bennet, Gronk, Hogan.. we have an embarrassment of riches on the offensive side of the ball we should be unstoppable.

I think play calling has been questionable over the last 2 weeks.. early in the game going for the home run balls on 3rd and long and at the end of the half was god awful clock management.. which forced ghost to miss another easy FG.. but we could have scored a TD if we managed the situation correctly. And last week in SF it was the Brady targeting Edelman 27 times show... which in the end most likely left points off the board.

This team is good, I am not sure they are a great team. Hopefully in the last regular season month we get some momentum going on D and start playing better offense.. I mean their is no excuse for **** play.. Brady had a **** game today, that happens a couple times a season. Some of his throws were waaayy off the mark and he missed deep all day.


Lets face it, we needed turn overs to win this game. Thats not necessarily a good thing against a 3-7 team.

 

[AtomicDawg]

I'm just repeating myself because its the point I'm trying to make. The teams you've showed me (Oakland and Seattle) are in different situations than our Patriots: They have quarterbacks that aren't 39 and Oakland especially have no way of being compared to us just because they have a 9-2 record. Completely different situation over in Oakland and the team has no current dynasty that could be fading.

Anyway, Gronk is made of glass because he's been injury prone since College. Every injury will eventually pile up and in my opinion will be gone by 2020-2021 as well. Brady on the other hand I pick over most quarterbacks obviously since he is the goat, but that doesn't mean potential cracks arent forming.

There's a lot of reasons why I see this dynasty is potentially ending but I will say @supafly - If Jimmy G is our QB of the future then I will feel more confident. That would mean he was groomed and time was taken on him. Though, time is ticking each passing year because I assume Jimmy G wants to play.

I get both of your points though. Its impossible to say I'm wrong or you're wrong as of 2016. I just don't think we'll be a dynasty level team in 2020 under Brady. We might be a decent team, but not a truly dynamic team like now.

I guess I have to repeat myself again.....Gronk has played 36 of 38 possible games the last two seasons......if he is injury prone so is every NFL player who has ever played. Every player gets dinged up and nicked up. There hasn't been one alive that hasn't gotten hurt and if there is they are made of Flubber or some other rubbery substance.

And the teams I used as examples may have younger QBs...but younger also means less experienced. Wilson is damn good and we know that. Carr is coming into his own but we have yet to realize what he can be when the lights come on. Oakland doesn't have a dynasty because prior to this season (and thanks to their pretty good offseason by their GM Reggie Mac) they were sucking wind.

I never really cared about the "dynasty" talk and I still don't to this day. That doesn't concern me. My issue is that things are situated pretty good for the Pats as it stands as far as prospects for a successful season and a subsequent playoff run in January. The defense and other aspects of the coaching needs to improve before then, but like BB always says, the season begins after Thanksgiving. This is where the big boys begin to seperate themselves. That's why I mentioned Oakland and Seattle. Our game against the Jets was close, but that had to be expected given the circumstances going in. I don't put much stock in Seattle losing to the Bucs, but that's what happened. I'm happy to root for a team that is in this situation and has been here for going on 16 seasons. That is unprecedented. I intend to enjoy.

 

[ralmat55]

ok, where did you read its "serious" ? Pats are leaking info to PFT that gronk will be not missing time next week ? Have you seen how they handle injury news for 16 years?

They do leak misinformation when it suits their purpose. My guess is Gronk's "back" injury is just an excuse for screwing up and thinking Gronk's "lung" injury had healed enough for him to make it through the game. Of course, the "lung" and "back" injuries are "cover injuries " for a rib cage injury which Gronk likely has. C'mon folks could Gronk have finished the Seattle game with a perforated lung?

Going off a tangent here. The physical toll these players endure because of the NFL's archaic roster rules and traditions continues to astound me. These players don't get the time to recover from injuries, so small injuries become bigger injuries and surgery is needed rather than rest.

From a fan's perspective, we get to watch Matellus Bennett soldier through the season at 60% of himself rather rather than have an opportunity to heal his ankle and shoulder. And, we get to watch Rob Gronkowski have an 10 season career rather than a 15 year career because small injuries become chronic.

The salary cap removes all the logical reasons why the roster rules couldn't be changed, so healthier players could be available to play while unhealthy players have time to heal. Non-guaranteed contracts would prevent it from becoming like baseball when a hangnail can lead to the disabled list. Of course, it's the foolish warrior mentality that permeates the game that is the real culprit. Football players play football you know.

 

[deroc5050]

I guess I have to repeat myself again.....Gronk has played 36 of 38 possible games the last two seasons......if he is injury prone so is every NFL player who has ever played. Every player gets dinged up and nicked up. There hasn't been one alive that hasn't gotten hurt and if there is they are made of Flubber or some other rubbery substance.

And the teams I used as examples may have younger QBs...but younger also means less experienced. Wilson is damn good and we know that. Carr is coming into his own but we have yet to realize what he can be when the lights come on. Oakland doesn't have a dynasty because prior to this season (and thanks to their pretty good offseason by their GM Reggie Mac) they were sucking wind.

I never really cared about the "dynasty" talk and I still don't to this day. That doesn't concern me. My issue is that things are situated pretty good for the Pats as it stands as far as prospects for a successful season and a subsequent playoff run in January. The defense and other aspects of the coaching needs to improve before then, but like BB always says, the season begins after Thanksgiving. This is where the big boys begin to seperate themselves. That's why I mentioned Oakland and Seattle. Our game against the Jets was close, but that had to be expected given the circumstances going in. I don't put much stock in Seattle losing to the Bucs, but that's what happened. I'm happy to root for a team that is in this situation and has been here for going on 16 seasons. That is unprecedented. I intend to enjoy.

Over the past 4 seasons he has missed 12-13 games. Thats almost a full season bro.

 

[AtomicDawg]

Over the past 4 seasons he has missed 12-13 games. Thats almost a full season bro.

To me that means nothing when you look at a guy who he's creeping up to in TDs....Antonio Gates. Look at this injury history....



And this isn't even a full list...it only goes up to 2012....I'm sure he's had plenty more since then. In fact I'm pretty sure he missed a game or two this season because Hunter Henry started some.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

Can't believe none of the Jets lit up Brady on this play, insane.

If this was Denver he tried this against he would of been decleated