Post game thoughts....the short version

[Rob0729]

- While Butler didn't have a great game, it was hardly the disaster that most people are making it out to be. On Cunningham's sack and Richard's 1st sack, Butler had the coverage that enabled the pressure to reach the QB.

I agree. I remember last night on 3rd and very long in Jags territory Butler stopped the receiver a yard short of the first down marker and people killed for giving up a big play when he did his job exactly the way the coaching staff wanted him to do it. The coaching staff didn't care about whether the Jags got a big passing play on that down only that the Jags didn't convert the down or get close enough to go for it on fourth down. So the DBs were playing the marker not the player. Butler stopped the guy a little over a yard short of the first down marker forcing the Jags to punt. Perfect play and people trashed him for doing his job right.

Granted a defensive offsides penalty on fourth down negated that, but Butler did his job. Yet, people thought he got burnt.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Pre-season is way better than No-season!! I know that last night was a game of backups versus a team that will be lucky to win 5 games this year, but man it was nice sitting down, drinking a beer and watching some Patriot football!!:rocker:

 

[Metaphors]

I saw Butler getting picked on all night. Tons of knowledgable media people (including Mike Reiss) have been noting that he played poorly last night. Add that he sucked last year, I'm not hopeful.

11-26 for 120 yds. I hope the Pats get picked on like this all year.

Seriously, can you name the plays where Butler got abused? I can pick out one in the 2nd half and a couple of others where he could have done a better job, but nothing like the abuse he is taking.

While you are at it, can you name any plays where Butler did a solid job? If you can't, your eyes are just reinforcing your bias instead of seeing the game.

 

[PatsFanatic69]

I STILL think that the hit on Price should NOT have been a penalty. The Jag player didn't lead with his top of his head. He met Price with his face mask. His head in good position. That's the distinction I would make in the rule. Face mask to face mask should be OK. Top of you helmet is BAD. JMHO

Its because it was the defenseless player rule and not the leading with the helmut rule. The receiver was defenseless and therefore he should not have been hit at all by the defender.

 

[upstater1]

So I need to watch the coaches tape to have any opinion ? That's idiotic.
It seemed to me that JaMarcus Russell wasn't very good, but I'm not a professional football coach and haven't watched the game tape so I'll reserve judgement. LOL!

I saw Butler getting picked on all night. Tons of knowledgable media people (including Mike Reiss) have been noting that he played poorly last night. Add that he sucked last year, I'm not hopeful.

Jamarcus Russell has the cameras trained on him, CBs don't.
What Butler is doing downfield while a QB is getting sacked may be connected, right?

There was a thread about Reiss's football IQ on here last week.

After losing his job early last year, Butler played the slot well. He's a 5th or 6th DB.

Coach's tape will show the play of CBs downfield.

I think Ken was remarking that you replied to Metaphors and my post by completely disregarding what we wrote. What's your reply to Gabbert looking in Butler's direction multiple times, holding the ball and getting sacked?

 

[Shelterdog]

I agree. I remember last night on 3rd and very long in Jags territory Butler stopped the receiver a yard short of the first down marker and people killed for giving up a big play when he did his job exactly the way the coaching staff wanted him to do it. The coaching staff didn't care about whether the Jags got a big passing play on that down only that the Jags didn't convert the down or get close enough to go for it on fourth down. So the DBs were playing the marker not the player. Butler stopped the guy a little over a yard short of the first down marker forcing the Jags to punt. Perfect play and people trashed him for doing his job right.

Granted a defensive offsides penalty on fourth down negated that, but Butler did his job. Yet, people thought he got burnt.

Exactly. Similarly there were a bunch of plays where he was playing with outside leverage and his guy cuts inside for six to ten yard catches; first it might be the safeties or backers who should have broken that up but second giving up a seven yard pass to the middle of the field in a barn burner isn't that bad.

And the Jags were 11-26 for 120 yards and 4 coverage type sacks and no 20 yard receptions; your secondary is doing it's job with numbers like that.

 

[Rob0729]

I said this last night. One concern that I have for this team and last night showed me nothing to make me think my concerns are unfounded are special teams. With all these extra d-linemen and veterans who don't play special teams, the area that is going to be most hurt is the special teams. Last night the coverage and return teams were horrid at times.

Granted some of the starters who do play special teams were given the night off. That could be a huge difference. Also, with the new kick off rules and Gotskowski doing kick offs, the kick off coverage team might not be a big deal. And if Mesko can punt like he did early last night, that alleves that problem at punt coverage a bit too.

 

[Patspsycho]

I said this last night. One concern that I have for this team and last night showed me nothing to make me think my concerns are unfounded are special teams. With all these extra d-linemen and veterans who don't play special teams, the area that is going to be most hurt is the special teams. Last night the coverage and return teams were horrid at times.

Granted some of the starters who do play special teams were given the night off. That could be a huge difference. Also, with the new kick off rules and Gotskowski doing kick offs, the kick off coverage team might not be a big deal. And if Mesko can punt like he did early last night, that alleves that problem at punt coverage a bit too.

It was Koepplin doing the kick-offs, not Gostkowski.

 

[asfpnepRefugee]

Someone needs to tell the Sam Adams CEO that he's had his 15 minutes and he should go back to running his company from the background. That kind of misunderstood celebrity will be his downfall if it shows up in how he runs the business.

I've never not seen him look completely hammered. This is on TV appearances, live appearances and even just bumping into him randomly. He's such a weird guy.

 

[Rob0729]

It was Koepplin doing the kick-offs, not Gostkowski.

I understand that, but Koepplin will not be on the roster come the first game. Gostkowski frequently got touchbacks under the old rules and more likely than not get even more now that he is kicking five yards closer.

 

[Patriot 37]

Jamarcus Russell has the cameras trained on him, CBs don't.
What Butler is doing downfield while a QB is getting sacked may be connected, right?

There was a thread about Reiss's football IQ on here last week.

After losing his job early last year, Butler played the slot well. He's a 5th or 6th DB.

Coach's tape will show the play of CBs downfield.

I think Ken was remarking that you replied to Metaphors and my post by completely disregarding what we wrote. What's your reply to Gabbert looking in Butler's direction multiple times, holding the ball and getting sacked?

This is from Comcast Sports. Although tons of people on the TV/radio have been pointing the obvious fact that Butler played poorly.

Much more work to be done for Pats secondary | CSNNE.com | Mary Paoletti

Darius Butler was not so lucky.

The cornerback played every quarter -- both outside and as a nickel back -- sweating it out for a roster spot. It's a been a hard fall for a player who started last year's regular-season opener.

And it's tough to talk about.

"They made some good throws and got some catches," Butler said. "But that's just part of the game."

That's the best answer he had for Jacksonville training its sniper-sight on his forehead. The Jaguars targeted Butler's side at least six times in the first half -- predictably on third down -- and his coverage blew up more than once. But Belichick kept him in, kept testing him.

When they throw the ball to WR they switch to another camera (they have lots of cameras). Do you listen to the game on the radio ?

The 2 days I was at training camp he sucked then also.
If I insulted your binky I'm sorry, but he's shown nothing.

 

[Tunescribe]

that hit will be called 100 times out of a 100

this ain't the 80's anymore..or even the 90's

From the stands it sure didn't look like a penalty. Just looked like football. Even though we benefited from it, I didn't like it.

 

[Shelterdog]

The 2 days I was at training camp he sucked then also.
If I insulted your binky I'm sorry, but he's shown nothing.

The article sucks. It says they threw at him six times in the first half and he broke down "more than once". Is that twice or four times? If they were 2 of 6 against him for 9 yards he's amazing; if they were 4/6 for 78 yards less so.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Marc Schiechl

Does anyone know if Marc Schiechl played, and if so how he did? He's a binkie, hopefully Dane Fletcher 2.0.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Darius Butler is still awful in coverage, I'm sorry if that offends any of his fanboys on here but its true. The kid was a great athlete at UConn, and showed some decent tackling skills. Being a great athlete doesnt often translate to the NFL. He didn't even start playing football until late in high school. He'll just swat at the ball if he's still with the WR, he'
s always out of position.

 

[Mark Morse]

Re: Marc Schiechl

Does anyone know if Marc Schiechl played, and if so how he did? He's a binkie, hopefully Dane Fletcher 2.0.

I was to busy watching the Patriots players. I will check the game again tonight that I DVR'd. I don't think anyone had a sack for Jax.

I was hoping the Pats sihned Schiechl.

 

[patfanken]

So I need to watch the coaches tape to have any opinion ? That's idiotic.
It seemed to me that JaMarcus Russell wasn't very good, but I'm not a professional football coach and haven't watched the game tape so I'll reserve judgement. LOL!

I saw Butler getting picked on all night. Tons of knowledgable media people (including Mike Reiss) have been noting that he played poorly last night. Add that he sucked last year, I'm not hopeful.

No you can have an opinion, but it would be a more accurate one if you couched in terms like, "from what I saw". Just because you saw passes being caught in Butler's area DOES NOT mean he did anything wrong. If his responsibility is to make sure that NO one gets behind him in a zone, then passes are going to be completed in front of him. BAD QBs complete over 50% of their passes. The VERY best CBs in the league allow 4 out of 10 passes to their area to be completed.

No my problem isn't your opinion of Butler's play, with the fact you completely ignored a couple of posts that talked about several plays NOT ON the TV feed where he played well. BTW- Mike Reiss is a great reporter, but his analysis has NO more value than your's or mine. He just has better seats.

 

[Holy Diver]

The OBVIOUS Points -

.....I can hardly wait to see Ben Vereen.

Best thing I've read all morning!

http://www.musicalschwartz.com/images/ben-vereen-steppin-out-live-cd.jpg

I saw him on a 'very special' episode of Webster, he killed it!

 

[shmessy]

Thrilled with how they played after a quarter of crap on both sides of the ball. I was impressed with Hoyer, Price, Mallet, Ridley, etc....I didn't see anyone really stink up the joint, other Edelman and his poor returns - but I suspect that's not all on him. I know it's one preseason game, but I have the impression that Brian Hoyer could play and start for a handful of teams right now in the NFL.
On another note, I'd be p#ssed off if I paid full price for that game, $40 to park, and had to sit through backups, third stringers, and guys who'll be coaching high school football in three weeks. Yes, I know, you know what you're getting when you buy season tickets/preseason tickets, etc...
When I was a season ticket holder in my 20s, I didn't mind the preseason games - the weather was usually nice (aside from the annual Foxboro game time thunderstorm) and the ladies were certainly dressing less . All the ingredients were there to have a great time and get bombed and party, so the fact that we only saw the starters for a quarter didn't matter too much. It was par for the course to just leave at halftime and fire up the grills again. And there always seemed to be some level of debauchery in the parking lots after the preseason games (and in fact, after the September reg season games in the good weather) . Then, the last few years as we got older and gained more "real world" responsibilities, the alcohol consumption went down and it was alot harder to sit through the Brian Hoyers of the world plying their trade.
Kudos to anyone that paid full price for their ticket, tailgated, and stayed for the whole game...

FCB, you forgot the part where you write your obligatory "Kraft is cheap".

 

[patfanken]

This is from Comcast Sports. Although tons of people on the TV/radio have been pointing the obvious fact that Butler played poorly.

Lots of people on the radio? is THAT your evidence? C'mon Again those are nothing but UNINFORMED opinions just like yours and mine. Those are the same opinions that called for Claude's firing before he won the cup. Those are the same opinions that wanted Pedroia sent down when he was batting .150 for a full month his rookie year.

BTW- I don't discount the possibility that you are perfectly correct...and he'll eventually get cut. But only BB and his coaches, who have the coaches tapes which show all 22 players for the entirety of the play know how well he played. I played and coached the game long enough to know that its not always the way it seems when blame and praise are sorted out.

I'm not even looking for you to change your opinion, but rather to acknowledge that he just MIGHT have had several good plays along with those you perceive to be bad ones