Possible Punishments: ESPN update 10:16 per Clayton

[Rob0729]

We seem to be ready to believe that we will lose a couple of draft choices, with no consequences whatever for Belichick. Somehow, I don't think that this is the way it will come down.

Based on what? Adam Schefter is the only one who is even hinting that Belichick could be suspended.

Some people are calling for his suspension, but I think it is going to be hard for the league to pin this directly on Belichick even if he absolutely believes Belichick made the call on this. I don't think any GMs or head coaches want Belichick to go down for this without hard proof he gave the order. That will leave every GM and/or head coach potentially left holding the bag for anything their staff does in the future.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

We are going to win the Superbowl this year. It will start Sunday night when the Pats *crush* the Chargers. What will the headlines be like when the Pats win 48-10? Are they going to claim cheating then? Make no mistake about it. The Black Flag is going up for all the Pats opponents this season. I don't like it but that will be the only way to shut the weasels, pygmies, and sore losers.

But the players will Rally to that "Black Flag". I bet the players to a T want to prove to the whole NFL they can win without cheating, and this could be the "chip on the shoulder".

As far as a 2nd and a 5th goes. We get off easy. Watch BB trade SF's high 1st for a lower first (where he likes it anyway), and a 2nd. 5th rounder....what could we get with that...another Moss?

 

[Rob0729]

If you don't want to discuss speculation, then don't. That's your choice. Of course, we all should all wait until after Friday's hearing and hope all this will go away. As of this morning, the vast majority posting thought that this whole incident was a hoax. We'll all see when the commission rules, and Robert Kraft makes a statement in the week after the ruling.

Based on Kraft's current comments, it looks like he will stand behind Belichick. I just don't know if they are going to be able to prove Belichick made this decision personally. If they can't, I don't believe Godell will suspend Belichick.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Doesn't Clayton remember this article (already posted) where he says, "Stealing signs is part of football?"

What a hypocrite. But I suppose we'll all have to get used to it until the penalty comes down.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2696227

The entire NFL front office is a hypocrite because they want to distract fans from realizing that cheating by stealing signs isn't considered cheating.

That's the real scandal to me - I only just learned that today.

So as far as the NFL is concerned, Cheating is Legal - just don't cheat at cheating.

That's a great message.

 

[AtivanPatsFan]

So if the Raiders were caught doing it, an appropriate punishment for them would be taking away a compensatory seventh rounder? I'm sorry, the success of the Patriots and the likelihood of a second day pick making the roster should not have any bearing on the decision. The Pats should be treated the same as the Raiders if they were accused of this crime.

As for Clayton's logic, it is faulty anyway. If you look at the Patriots' way of doing things, the Pats could easily trade away a fourth in next year's draft for a third in the 2009 draft. Also, if they wanted to move up a place or two in the first round, they may need one or two of their second day picks to move up. To say that the Pats' second day picks have no value to the Patriots is just misinformed.

There are a lot of bad analysts out there, but John Clayton is one of the worst. He really should just stick to reporting the news and leave his opinions out of it.

Every draft pick for every team is considered important. Fortunately for us, and unfortunately for the rest of the leauge, our track record on the draft has been ... above average ... lets say.

And while I agree with you I believe it is unfair that because the Raiders have had an attrocious last couple seasons, they would be punished "less" than we would be punished, that unfortunately, is the way it seems to work.

I think back to the Cowboys of the early 1990s. Everyone hated them because all they did was win, win, win. It's our turn in the hot seat, and it's time to show the NFL what New England Patriots football is all about.

 

[eastsrule]

No way would they take away a first day pick based on this incident.

If, however, there is legitimate proof and evidence of the Pats doing it over the past couple of years - different story.

I still maintain that this is nothing but an ESPN beat-up.

 

[patpatriot]

The one thing that gives me hope in this whole thing is that Bob Kraft talked about possible adjudication. There may be more to this story than is out there. I still can't see Belichick getting suspended personally.

Ajudiwhat? You mean like suing the league a la Al Davis?

 

[Rob0729]

Every draft pick for every team is considered important. Fortunately for us, and unfortunately for the rest of the leauge, our track record on the draft has been ... above average ... lets say.

And while I agree with you I believe it is unfair that because the Raiders have had an attrocious last couple seasons, they would be punished "less" than we would be punished, that unfortunately, is the way it seems to work.

I think back to the Cowboys of the early 1990s. Everyone hated them because all they did was win, win, win. It's our turn in the hot seat, and it's time to show the NFL what New England Patriots football is all about.

The problem is that if he set the bar too high with the punishment with the Patriots, if a bad team like the Raiders are the next to get caught Goodell can only go up with the punishment. He can't take away a second and a fifth from the Patriots for this offense and then someone else be stupid enough to be caught after they saw the Pats' punishment and give them a lesser punishment just because they are a worse team.

I expect unless the Pats made a strong case, the Pats will get a harsh punishment of maybe a third and a sixth or a seventh, but I find it really hard to think that Goodell will do a second and fifth because the next team will have to lose a first.

 

[Rob0729]

Ajudiwhat? You mean like suing the league a la Al Davis?

Sorry my bad, it is late. I was thinking something else when I read Kraft's statement. I think I was was thinking aquittance.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

First off Goodell is a total D-bag that gets a boner every time his name get mentioned, anywhere .

Here are the only acceptable punishments that the competition committee will entertain;

1) Moss must be immediately traded.
2) Brady must retire, like yesterday.
3) Any team named the Patriots MUST play with only 7 defenders at all times.
4) The patriots must forfeit every game for the last 7 years.
5) Umm, just the patriots suck...and anyone the says otherwise will be suspended from watching NFL games for 1 year.

 

[mgteich]

Kraft is absolutely standing by Belichick. He will have a lot more information within a week, and a lot more to deal with. As I have said many times, I have 100% confidence in whatever the Krafts decide and in their statements.

Based on Kraft's current comments, it looks like he will stand behind Belichick. I just don't know if they are going to be able to prove Belichick made this decision personally. If they can't, I don't believe Godell will suspend Belichick.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Ajudiwhat? You mean like suing the league a la Al Davis?

Interesting that you bring up Al Davis. I think people are ignoring the importance of Kraft in all of this.

We've heard countless times how involved Bob and John are in league matters. The NFL loves Kraft because he's a large market owner who is willing to play their communist game.

Alienating Kraft would not be a smart thing for the commissioner to do. He doesn't need the owner of the 2nd most valuable franchise to say "screw the league, I'm looking out for myself."

Since the day they signed the old CBA there have been rumblings about the small market owners looking for change in the next one. The next one is right around the corner and an unhappy Kraft would not make things any easier.

I expect a stern statement, a fine, and maybe a 2nd day pick. Anything more severe opens the league up to alienating Kraft, potential action against the league by NE, and a whole lot made out of the hypocrisy of a severe punishment for a practice that everyone does. The NFL should want this to go away.

 

[Trot]

Kraft is absolutely standing by Belichick. He will have a lot more information within a week, and a lot more to deal with. As I have said many times, I have 100% confidence in whatever the Krafts decide and in their statements.

You're implying that Kraft will abandon BB when more info comes out. Why don't you just come out and say as much? Lay your cards on the table, Mr. Doom and Gloom; don't hide behind vague statements

 

[wistahpatsfan]

First off Goodell is a total D-bag that gets a boner every time his name get mentioned, anywhere .

Here are the only acceptable punishments that the competition committee will entertain;

1) Moss must be immediately traded.
2) Brady must retire, like yesterday.
3) Any team named the Patriots MUST play with only 7 defenders at all times.
4) The patriots must forfeit every game for the last 7 years.
5) Umm, just the patriots suck.............. and anyone the says otherwise will be suspended from watching NFL games for 1 year.

.... :eat1:

 

[Rob0729]

Interesting that you bring up Al Davis. I think people are ignoring the importance of Kraft in all of this.

We've heard countless times how involved Bob and John are in league matters. The NFL loves Kraft because he's a large market owner who is willing to play their communist game.

Alienating Kraft would not be a smart thing for the commissioner to do. He doesn't need the owner of the 2nd most valuable franchise to say "screw the league, I'm looking out for myself."

Since the day they signed the old CBA there have been rumblings about the small market owners looking for change in the next one. The next one is right around the corner and an unhappy Kraft would not make things any easier.

I expect a stern statement, a fine, and maybe a 2nd day pick. Anything more severe opens the league up to alienating Kraft, potential action against the league by NE, and a whole lot made out of the hypocrisy of a severe punishment for a practice that everyone does. The NFL should want this to go away.

Yeah, the one thing going for us is that Kraft is one of the most progressive and internationally thinking owners in the league. Since international expansion is a high priority for Goodell, that is a good trump card for the Patriots.

That said though. I still hope they treat us how they would treat anyone else. I don't want to be penalized for being successful as Clayton sugguests or given special treatment because of Kraft. There is a lot of hatred around the league for the Pats and there has been a concerted effort to discredit or get to the Patriots. If Goodell plays favoritism to Kraft, that hatred will only intensify.

 

[AtivanPatsFan]

I expect a stern statement, a fine, and maybe a 2nd day pick. Anything more severe opens the league up to alienating Kraft, potential action against the league by NE, and a whole lot made out of the hypocrisy of a severe punishment for a practice that everyone does. The NFL should want this to go away.

You said it best right here. A hefty fine, a slap on the wrist saying "no more," and a loss of one or possibly two second day picks. Anything first day is far, FAR to harsh a penalty and I believe that even RG knows that (of course this is based on my own common sense and nothing more).

In all fairness, if any other team was accused of this, I would be just as angered and would expect similar punishment, in terms of fine and a second day pick penalty.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm mixed. In reality a #5 or so is plenty unless they can show that we used a videotape for real time in game changes that couldn't have been done with other means (binoculars, etc). So many people think of the entire act, though, it will have to be more unless Goodall has a press conference in which he outright says sign stealing is legal - while that's true I can't see him doing it.

So I expect them to lose a #3 as there's the Bronco precedent for that for "cheating".

 

[DW Toys]

I agree completely with this. The following game vs. the Chargers will account significantly not only for home field advantage, but also for a vital first round bye.

I believe RG should make a decision as late as Wednesday night or Thursday morning regarding the accusations.

NONE of us have seen what is on the tape, so speculation is the only road we are treading currently. But action must be taken now. I want no distractions when playing the Chargers. Just vendetta.

Cousins,
Now let me get this straight. If Goodell lets this go to the competition committee for their "opinion" and input, we are faced with Jeff Fisher who smiled, cheered and winked as his WR tried to take Rodney Harrisons' career from him last season and Bill Polian who singlehandedly had the league rules changed to fit the signature of his team so that his team could win a Super Bowl? And we can start this nasty rumor, the officiating crew who called the Playoff game would have never been allowed to ref a big game in their career if they called the obvious and correct PI in the endzone on Calwell with 3 minutes to go. Polian would have had them whacked. BB did not whine. Was that Plyoff game not "tainted"? Yet the fate of this stupid spy deal is in those two boobs hands perhaps? Wonderful!
DW Toys

 

[mgteich]

I do not know the details of the commissioner's findings before the hearing. Kraft will not "abandon" Belichick. But, he will deal with the situation. This nonsense will NOT be a distraction all year. In the end, the commissioner's punishment and how the FO deals with the repercussions will depend on what exactly Belichick knew and when he knew it, with regard to this incident and a dozen others.

You're implying that Kraft will abandon BB when more info comes out. Why don't you just come out and say as much? Lay your cards on the table, Mr. Doom and Gloom; don't hide behind vague statements

 

[Trot]

I do not know the details of the commissioner's findings before the hearing. Kraft will not "abandon" Belichick. But, he will deal with the situation. This nonsense will NOT be a distraction all year. In the end, the commissioner's punishment and how the FO deals with the repercussions will depend on what exactly Belichick knew and when he knew it, with regard to this incident and a dozen others.

You do a good job on the site, mgteich, and godluvya, but Newsflash: Belichick IS the "Front Office." Assume BB knew everything about this from the beginning: are you saying Kraft will fire him or not?

What other "incidents" are you referring to? 3 SBs? The incredible increase in value in the Pats that BB has spawned? What? Kraft is a businessman, not an idiot: he will keep his best asset.