Possible movement in negotiations?

[NEGoldenAge]

Youre thread is idiotic.

The Redskins found a way to sacrifice quality depth and wins so they could spend to brink of bankrupt every season. No other team wants to read "Management secrets of the Washington Redskins."

You don't understand Dan Snyder's philosophy. He has actually been very successful in what he is trying to do. He doesn't sign the big names to win games. He signs them to build and maintain the fainbase, and has been very successful at it.

#2 Washington Redskins - Forbes.com

He runs the team much like many of the wannabe GMs on this board would. The difference is that Dan Snyder does it purely to make more money. The wannabe GMs of this board think that is how you win. Essentially, he is pandering to the masses and laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[jefmblrd]

I like the idea of a salary cap, because it keeps things even-in that same vein they need to have a rookie wage scale. This concept of paying professionally untested rookies huge dollars makes no sense at all and choosing the wrong player at a huge cost can really set a franchise back years. They should also raise the number of players who can be kept on a roster-the current numbers are too low.

 

[Rob0729]

You don't understand Dan Snyder's philosophy. He has actually been very successful in what he is trying to do. He doesn't sign the big names to win games. He signs them to build and maintain the fainbase, and has been very successful at it.

#2 Washington Redskins - Forbes.com

He runs the team much like many of the wannabe GMs on this board would. The difference is that Dan Snyder does it purely to make more money. The wannabe GMs of this board think that is how you win. Essentially, he is pandering to the masses and laughing all the way to the bank.

You give Snyder too much credit. The guy is a billionaire who is a fan who bought the team to win a championship and he has thrown money around like crazy to do so and failed miserably.

Yes, the team is ranked #2 in valuation, but that doesn't mean he is just doing it for the money. The Cowboys are #1 and the Pats #3 and do you think they don't care about championships and are only doing to for money. If Snyder was doing it for the money, he wouldn't have paid overpriced coaches time after time to try to win a championship like Spurrier, Gibbs, and Shanahan. Jerry Jones has the number one valuation of any team with only one season where the team has won a playoff game in 15 years or so and he hired a bunch of no names and retreads other than Parcells and it hasn't hurt his valuation.

Snyder is desperate for a championship. Just because he is a successful marketer, has a large loyal fanbase, and a large capacity stadium doesn't mean he is just in it for the money. I guarantee you if there was no salary cap (and not just for one year like last year, but none going forward) that he would buy a championship even if it did nothing for his bottomline.

 

[Rob0729]

Mike Freeman wrote on Twitter that multiple sources told him that a new CBA could be struck before the 8th Circuit rules in what many expect will be early July.

Twitter

 

[NEGoldenAge]

You give Snyder too much credit. The guy is a billionaire who is a fan who bought the team to win a championship and he has thrown money around like crazy to do so and failed miserably.

Yes, the team is ranked #2 in valuation, but that doesn't mean he is just doing it for the money. The Cowboys are #1 and the Pats #3 and do you think they don't care about championships and are only doing to for money. If Snyder was doing it for the money, he wouldn't have paid overpriced coaches time after time to try to win a championship like Spurrier, Gibbs, and Shanahan. Jerry Jones has the number one valuation of any team with only one season where the team has won a playoff game in 15 years or so and he hired a bunch of no names and retreads other than Parcells and it hasn't hurt his valuation.

Snyder is desperate for a championship. Just because he is a successful marketer, has a large loyal fanbase, and a large capacity stadium doesn't mean he is just in it for the money. I guarantee you if there was no salary cap (and not just for one year like last year, but none going forward) that he would buy a championship even if it did nothing for his bottomline.

Bringing in big name coaches is much like bringing in big name players, it keeps the masses interested. I agree that if there was no salary cap, he'd try to buy a championship. If he could combine winning with signing the big names, he'd jump at the chance. That said, it is much harder to win than it is to pander to the masses.

If you'd like to assume that Snyder just a reckless fan trying to buy a championship, it's not surprising. I'll go with the more rational assumption; that a savy business man who is raking in the dough in the NFL is simply being a savy business man.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Mike Freeman wrote on Twitter that multiple sources told him that a new CBA could be struck before the 8th Circuit rules in what many expect will be early July.

Twitter

NEPats1 posted a link to Freeman's tiwtter on the previous page in the thread.

 

[BlueThunder]

I sure hope the owners/players strike a deal early in July.......there might be a reasonable shot at having some good football played in 2011 and the rookies wouldn't suffer too much with lost time....

MAKE IT SO ! :rocker:

 

[Rob0729]

Bringing in big name coaches is much like bringing in big name players, it keeps the masses interested. I agree that if there was no salary cap, he'd try to buy a championship. If he could combine winning with signing the big names, he'd jump at the chance. That said, it is much harder to win than it is to pander to the masses.

If you'd like to assume that Snyder just a reckless fan trying to buy a championship, it's not surprising. I'll go with the more rational assumption; that a savy business man who is raking in the dough in the NFL is simply being a savy business man.

So there is there is a cap. That means Snyder doesn't care about winning a championship? No cap means he can care.

Let me educate you. The reason why Bob Kraft has the third highest valuated team is i n large part because of three Super Bowl rings. The reason the Cowboys are #1 is in large part because of five Super Bowl rings. The reason the Redskins are #2 is in large part because of four Super Bowl rings. The reason why the Cowboys and Redskins can still keep high valuations even when they haven't even sniffed the Super Bowl in years is because of the currency and fan base amassed by the years of winning. Super Bowl wins equal revenue and profits.

Even if Snyder is just in it for the money, he would be smarter to do it the Pats way by not making huge splashes in free agency and throwing away millions of dollars on signing bonuses for bust big name free agents (Haynesworth, Jerimiah Trotter, Jeff George, Adam Archuletta, and Deion Sanders to name some of Snyder's biggest bust signings), but rather build a team that competes for a Super Bowl year after year. The Patriots' valuation is about as much as the Redskins eventhough Gillette sits just under 23,000 less people (FedEx Field has a capacity of 91,700 while Gillette sits 68,756). That means Snyder has the capacity to make exponentially more money at the gate, parking, and concessions, but in 2009 he only made 9% more (gross revenue) than Kraft did. In fact, even with 23k less seats in the stadium, Kraft made $5 million more in gate receipts than Snyder did. That tells me that winning championships and consistently competiting for championships is a better business strategy buying names.

A large portion of the Redskins fan base hate Snyder because they think he is playing fantasy football with the Redskins. Many fans stay loyal despite their strategy of overpaying for big named players. Do you think the fanbase after getting burned by McNabb, Haynesworth, Trotter, George, Archuletta, Spurrier, Deion, Gibbs, etc. get juiced everytime Snyder signs an overrated and expensive free agent? Everyone outside the DC area ridicule Snyder's strategy of "buying a championship". You don't think a large portion of the Redskins fans don't feel the same way? Not even Redskins fan is a mindless drone and forgets that this strategy of signing big names has done nothing to even make them a consistent playoff contender nevermind a consistent Super Bowl contender. I guarantee you a significant portion of the Redskins' fan base is sick of these big name players. I mean if you look at this board, there are a lot of people who are sick of the Patriots way of building a team eventhough it has been far more successful than Snyder's way.

To think that Snyder is a Jeremey Jacobs type who really only cares about the bottomline and not as much about championships is foolish. Snyder is a fan and he wants to win championships just like Kraft does. Both want to make money, but both want to win. Winning championships and making money are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they go hand in hand.

I think Snyder is a great businessman, but a horrible General Manager. Just because you can make a lot of money in business doesn't mean you can scout talent. The difference between Kraft and Snyder is Kraft learned that lesson quickly (he no longer goes to Pro Days with his stop watch and evaluates players or overruling the head coach on who to draft like he used to) and it is taking Snyder a lot longer to learn it.

 

[Rob0729]

NEPats1 posted a link to Freeman's tiwtter on the previous page in the thread.

Thanks for the update. Must have missed it. Good thing your obsession with me keeps me honest.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

So there is there is a cap. That means Snyder doesn't care about winning a championship? No cap means he can care.

Let me educate you. The reason why Bob Kraft has the third highest valuated team is i n large part because of three Super Bowl rings. The reason the Cowboys are #1 is in large part because of five Super Bowl rings. The reason the Redskins are #2 is in large part because of four Super Bowl rings. The reason why the Cowboys and Redskins can still keep high valuations even when they haven't even sniffed the Super Bowl in years is because of the currency and fan base amassed by the years of winning. Super Bowl wins equal revenue and profits.

Even if Snyder is just in it for the money, he would be smarter to do it the Pats way by not making huge splashes in free agency and throwing away millions of dollars on signing bonuses for bust big name free agents (Haynesworth, Jerimiah Trotter, Jeff George, Adam Archuletta, and Deion Sanders to name some of Snyder's biggest bust signings), but rather build a team that competes for a Super Bowl year after year. The Patriots' valuation is about as much as the Redskins eventhough Gillette sits just under 23,000 less people (FedEx Field has a capacity of 91,700 while Gillette sits 68,756). That means Snyder has the capacity to make exponentially more money at the gate, parking, and concessions, but in 2009 he only made 9% more (gross revenue) than Kraft did. In fact, even with 23k less seats in the stadium, Kraft made $5 million more in gate receipts than Snyder did. That tells me that winning championships and consistently competiting for championships is a better business strategy buying names.

Snyder, like Kraft, was a fan who bought the team. To say that Snyder is content to make money and not win a championship is foolish. Of course Snyder wants a championship. He wants to make money too, but he signs big names to win championships.

A large portion of the Redskins fan base hate Snyder because they think he is playing fantasy football with the Redskins. Many fans stay loyal despite their strategy of overpaying for big named players. Do you think the fanbase after getting burned by McNabb, Haynesworth, Trotter, George, Archuletta, Spurrier, Deion, Gibbs, etc. get juiced everytime Snyder signs an overrated and expensive free agent? Everyone outside the DC area ridicule Snyder's strategy of "buying a championship". You don't think a large portion of the Redskins fans don't feel the same way? Not even Redskins fan is a mindless drone and forgets that this strategy of signing big names has done nothing to even make them a consistent playoff contender nevermind a consistent Super Bowl contender. I guarantee you a significant portion of the Redskins' fan base is sick of these big name players.

For such a "smart" and "open minded" guy, it's pretty amazing that you don't understand the simple points presented. Perhaps if I wasn't such a "knuckle-dragger", I could present this in a way you could understand.

Winning is a great way to build a fan base, I never claimed otherwise. It is not that Snyder would not like to win a superbowl. The simple fact is, winning in the NFL is very, very difficult. Although pandering to the masses is relatively expensive, it is a hell of a lot easier than consistently winning in the NFL, and the payoff is huge and comes almost immediately.

Maybe you can understand this; Snyder made more than Kraft even though the Redskins haven't won a superbowl in almost 20 years. Instead of tirelessly twisting things and trying to find ways to support your viewpoint, perhaps you should take a critical look at your own viewpoint when presented facts that prove it wrong. To do otherwise is not "open minded".

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Thanks for the update. Must have missed it. Good thing your obsession with me keeps me honest.

YouTube - ‪Carly Simon-You're So Vain‬‏

Naw, I just can't pass up an easy target.

 

[Rob0729]

For such a "smart" and "open minded" guy, it's pretty amazing that you don't understand the simple points presented. Perhaps if I wasn't such a "knuckle-dragger", I could present this in a way you could understand.

Winning is a great way to build a fan base, I never claimed otherwise. It is not that Snyder would not like to win a superbowl. The simple fact is, winning in the NFL is very, very difficult. Although pandering to the masses is relatively expensive, it is a hell of a lot easier than consistently winning in the NFL, and the payoff is huge and comes almost immediately.

Maybe you can understand this; Snyder made more than Kraft even though the Redskins haven't won a superbowl in almost 20 years. Instead of tirelessly twisting things and trying to find ways to support your viewpoint, perhaps you should take a critical look at your own viewpoint when presented facts that prove it wrong. To do otherwise is not "open minded".

I understood what you were talking about, but I just think it is stupid premise. Snyder buys talent because thinks it will get him a championship pure and simple. If he does it to create fan interest, then he also a bad businessman not just a bad GM.

Snyder has wasted tens of millions of dollars on high priced busts. If you are going to adopt a strategy of acquiring high priced talent who have low success rates of succeeding, you have keep on pouring good money after bad into that strategy to keep fan interest. When you give $30 million to a Haynesworth to be mediocre situational player and a headache, you gotta turnaround in year or two and pay the next free agent bust that type of money. It is stupid business strategy that cost Snyder tens of millions and turned the fans against him.

As for Snyder making more money, he should. He inherited a much larger fan base than Kraft did. Two years before Kraft bought the team, there were home games where only 13,000 people showed up. This was strictly a Red Sox town with the Pats in fourth place in for interest. Kraft has been spending the last 16 years cultivating a fan base that is generational. That is something Snyder inherited when he bought the team. The Redkins won four Super Bowls in the 80s and 90s. There was a whole generation who grew up on Redskin Super Bowls. Also the Redskins were and still are easily the number one team in the DC area. I bet you ten years from now, Kraft will be making more with the Patriots than Snyder will with the Redskins if Snyder doesn't win a Super Bowl.

 

[Deus Irae]

Youre thread is idiotic.

The Redskins found a way to sacrifice quality depth and wins so they could spend to brink of bankrupt every season. No other team wants to read "Management secrets of the Washington Redskins."

You're about a million miles away from the point of the discussion, so you insulting the thread is quite humorous. However, it's really not worth the effort to walk you through it, so, I'll just say good day to you.

 

[Rob0729]

Ironically, there is articles recently saying that they are ripping up seats in FedEx Field to create a party deck (a section of standing room only "seating") and it is being surmised that the demand for season tickets are dwindling and that the 22 plus year string of sell outs for the Redskins (that is 11 plus years longer than Snyder owned the team) may be in jeapordy.

Goodbye, FedExField Seats; Hello, Party Deck: Redskins Removing A Lot of Seats - Washington City Paper

Even if it is purely business decision to increase stadium revenue, it does support my argument that the Redskins fans were extremely loyal to the Redskins long before Snyder bought the team and even sold out seats before Snyder during a stretch of the 90s where they went 4-12 (1993), 3-13 (1994), 6-10 (1995), 9-7 (1996), 8-7-1 (1997), and 6-10 (1998). All those years were sellouts and before Snyder bought the team. This shows Redskins fans will follow the team no matter how bad they are, not because they are suckered in by flashy free agents with two 10 win seasons in 11 years of Snyder (with a 2-3 playoff record during that time).

Yes, RFK stadium held much less people. But FedEx Field opened in 1997 and sold out two years before Snyder bought the team and two non-winning seasons.

Also, forgot to mention that Snyder has no shame in milking the Redskins fans. There is nothing he won't charge for. He charges fans to park at and to attend training camp practices. Kraft could easily do that and other things to generate additional revenue, but he doesn't believe in charging fans for everything he can.

Maybe Snyder has learned though since he has hired Bruce Allen to run the show and taking away responsibilities from his lackey Vinny Cerrato. Maybe Snyder learned what Kraft learned in the late 90s. Being a great businessman does make you qualified to run a football operation and it is better to hire the best to run the show and stay out of football operations as much as possible.

It is the first time I have ever heard anyone label Snyders poor football decisions as smart business strategy. I'd love to see an explaination why Snyder loved trading away high draft picks for stupid reasons as sound business stretegy.

 

[Ring 6]

Ironically, there is articles recently saying that they are ripping up seats in FedEx Field to create a party deck (a section of standing room only "seating") and it is being surmised that the demand for season tickets are dwindling and that the 22 plus year string of sell outs for the Redskins (that is 11 plus years longer than Snyder owned the team) may be in jeapordy.

Goodbye, FedExField Seats; Hello, Party Deck: Redskins Removing A Lot of Seats - Washington City Paper

Even if it is purely business decision to increase stadium revenue, it does support my argument that the Redskins fans were extremely loyal to the Redskins long before Snyder bought the team and even sold out seats before Snyder during a stretch of the 90s where they went 4-12 (1993), 3-13 (1994), 6-10 (1995), 9-7 (1996), 8-7-1 (1997), and 6-10 (1998). All those years were sellouts and before Snyder bought the team. This shows Redskins fans will follow the team no matter how bad they are, not because they are suckered in by flashy free agents with two 10 win seasons in 11 years of Snyder (with a 2-3 playoff record during that time).

Yes, RFK stadium held much less people. But FedEx Field opened in 1997 and sold out two years before Snyder bought the team and two non-winning seasons.

Also, forgot to mention that Snyder has no shame in milking the Redskins fans. There is nothing he won't charge for. He charges fans to park at and to attend training camp practices. Kraft could easily do that and other things to generate additional revenue, but he doesn't believe in charging fans for everything he can.

Maybe Snyder has learned though since he has hired Bruce Allen to run the show and taking away responsibilities from his lackey Vinny Cerrato. Maybe Snyder learned what Kraft learned in the late 90s. Being a great businessman does make you qualified to run a football operation and it is better to hire the best to run the show and stay out of football operations as much as possible.

It is the first time I have ever heard anyone label Snyders poor football decisions as smart business strategy. I'd love to see an explaination why Snyder loved trading away high draft picks for stupid reasons as sound business stretegy.

I think there is a very good case to be made the the popularity of the Redskins has declined under Snyders ownership.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I think there is a very good case to be made the the popularity of the Redskins has declined under Snyders ownership.

It should have declined dramatically, considering the team's actual performance. Their stadium should be almost empty on Sundays. Unfortunately, the sheep are too enamored with all the shiney, big-name players and keep buying tickets and Redskins merchandise. How many other teams that have sniffed a superbowl in almost 20 years are in the top 10 list of NFL earners?

 

[BlueThunder]

Not sure what other venue is in Washington that would draw sporting fans....
He may be making money in spite of himself....:bricks:

 

[Rob0729]

It should have declined dramatically, considering the team's actual performance. Their stadium should be almost empty on Sundays. Unfortunately, the sheep are too enamored with all the shiney, big-name players and keep buying tickets and Redskins merchandise. How many other teams that have sniffed a superbowl in almost 20 years are in the top 10 list of NFL earners?

NFL Team Valuations - Forbes.com

Houston is fourth in earnings and they have never been to the playoff and only have one winning season in team history. Miami is sixth and they haven't sniffed the Super Bowl in over 20 years.

Also, Dallas is third and they went from 1997 to 2008 without a playoff win, had six season from 1997 til last year with six or less wins, and hasn't sniffed the Super Bowl in almost 20 years (well 16 years).

I think this argument that Snyder buys these shiny new toys to keep the masses coming back doesn't hold up.

Besides, it is bad business to begin with to pay a premium for overpriced talent that will only have a short term effect in fan excitement. Unless these high priced free agents perform, the fans turn against them quickly. Snyder has already paid Haynesworth over $30 million in two years and the fans hated Haynesworth after one year. Actually, he might be one of the most hated men in the DC area right now and is a reason for fans to not go to the game because he is the highest paid defensive player in the NFL and he says he doesn't want to be there, has been caught on video dogging plays, and has been ineffective. How is that good business. Paying tens of millions in bonus money for a 6-12 month bump in fan interest? Snyder could have paid about 5-6 solid starters/contributors for what he paid Haynesworth and made the team a contender for 2-3 years which would do more for fan interest.

 

[BlueThunder]

I think the NE fanbase has the same mindset as BB....Whatever is good for the TEAM...

Even when Moss was traded, I don't think there was a big uproar.....It's true they need someone to stretch the field, but most fans believe in BB's assessment of the talent currently signed with the team. Let's get this new CBA in place and wait to see what FA's he signs.

Lets get these players into camp !!!!

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I think the NE fanbase has the same mindset as BB....Whatever is good for the TEAM...

Even when Moss was traded, I don't think there was a big uproar.....It's true they need someone to stretch the field, but most fans believe in BB's assessment of the talent currently signed with the team. Let's get this new CBA in place and wait to see what FA's he signs.

Lets get these players into camp !!!!

I think the outburst by Moss after the game 1 win had a huge factor in the lack of an uproar when he was dealt.