Position groups BB has under-/over-invested in?

[RayClay]

Chandler Jones before Easley, actually.

Anyhow, the if-healthy starting front seven is Hightower/Mayo/Collins plus Jones/Easley/Wilfork/Ninkovich, which represents considerable investment. However, the backups are a lot cheaper than back when guys like Jarvis Green, Ted Johnson or even Willie McGinest didn't start. Ayers could be a first step toward spending again on Front Seven depth.

Hard to have an apples to apples comparison given the different roles. I'm comparing wilfork, Branch and siliga to W, seymour and warren. Much cheaper.

Hightower mayo collins and chandler to guyton and the rest of the flotsam and
jetsam between now and the classic LB De-olb groups.

 

[Fencer]

Hard to have an apples to apples comparison given the different roles. I'm comparing wilfork, Branch and siliga to W, seymour and warren. Much cheaper.

You're taking two positions and leaving out a 1st round pick, and comparing them to what was 3 positions in the old days.

Yeah, apples to apples is hard.

 

[Fencer]

That's why I prefer to go with Front Seven overall. Reasonable shot at apples-to-apples there, the increase in sub-package downs notwithstanding.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Vereen often seems to be underperforming because of a wrist or ankle or whatever. (Reiss' most recent chat says its an ankle at the moment.)

He needs to spend some quality time with the JUGS machine.

 

[rochrist]

Necroing this thread:

• DE/rush OLB depth became a problem. Fortunately, Ayers was a great scrap-heap find.
• DT depth was a problem. Fortunately, Walker was enough to muddle through.
• LB depth was a problem. Fortunately, Casillas was on the scrap-heap.
• RB depth was a bit of a problem, even with Gray on the PS. Fortunately, Blount made his way to the scrap-heap.

I'd like to see BB pay up for Ayers, up to point. Edge rushers are expensive, but he certainly seems to be worth more than, say, Cannon.

DT is feeling fine right now, even if Easley doesn't produce this year.

LB will be an issue for the off-season. If both Mayo and Casillas stay, that's a good start.

Power RB depth depends on whether Gray can be quickly rehabilitated. (And if Blount is hurt, it should be quick indeed.) Vereen/White is hard to forecast; Vereen seems a bit glassy, but that might also lower his price.

Where did you get the idea Blount was hurt?

 

[woolster22]

The Tommy Kelly move is still a head-scratcher.

He was raising a stink over a seeming platoon and his contract incentives. He probably would have become a malcontent, and presumably would have given a poor example for the younger guys in the locker room.

 

[Oswlek]

He was raising a stink over a seeming platoon and his contract incentives. He probably would have become a malcontent, and presumably would have given a poor example for the younger guys in the locker room.

And if they win out, barring injuries, they appear to have enviable depth at DT, so you have to wonder how much more production they'd get from Kelly anyway. If they someone drop one of the last three, I could see a case for NE beating Miami in week one and retaining the top seed had Tommy stuck around.

 

[Fencer]

Where did you get the idea Blount was hurt?

Possibly I got confused regarding the missed practice for his legal issue.

 

[AzPatsFan]

He was raising a stink over a seeming platoon and his contract incentives. He probably would have become a malcontent, and presumably would have given a poor example for the younger guys in the locker room.

Bingo! Belichick regards team chemistry as an important team profile for a winning club. He sacrificed and hurt the talent level, to remove a potential malcontent that could destroy the chemistry.

 

[mgteich]

I think that Belichick spends less than the rest of the league at RB, WR and S. He also has underspent on the OL. Note that his major additions on the OL last year were two 4th rounders. The OT's are a 1st and 2nd rounder at relatively low salaries.

I think that recently the patriots have spent more resources on the defensive front seven, on cornerbacks, and on special teamers (kickers and specialists) .
==========
Obviously (from the record), Belichick balance works very well for us. We should expect even higher a percentage to be spent on defense if we bring back Revis, McCourty, Ayers and Chung. Of course, this increase presumes no decreases for Wilfork and Mayo.

 

[Fencer]

I think that Belichick spends less than the rest of the league at RB, WR and S. He also has underspent on the OL. Note that his major additions on the OL last year were two 4th rounders. The OT's are a 1st and 2nd rounder at relatively low salaries.

I think that recently the patriots have spent more resources on the defensive front seven, on cornerbacks, and on special teamers (kickers and specialists) .
==========
Obviously (from the record), Belichick balance works very well for us. We should expect even higher a percentage to be spent on defense if we bring back Revis, McCourty, Ayers and Chung. Of course, this increase presumes no decreases for Wilfork and Mayo.

I count picks as part of investment. So I don't see Solder, Vereen, or (in the past) Maroney as cheap players.

 

[RayClay]

You're taking two positions and leaving out a 1st round pick, and comparing them to what was 3 positions in the old days.

Yeah, apples to apples is hard.

Leaving out a first round pick? If you mean chandler Jones, he is more Willie mcGinest, Vrabel linebacker, than stout DL. You can't vompare by defense, but it's not that hard by body type. Seymour was a highly skilled 3-4 DE, who played some NT but at 320 was not comparable to Chandler Jones

 

[Fencer]

Leaving out a first round pick? If you mean chandler Jones,

Actually, I meant Easley.

 

[RayClay]

That's why I prefer to go with Front Seven overall. Reasonable shot at apples-to-apples there, the increase in sub-package downs notwithstanding.

I mention Easley as a transition to a new type of interior lineman, especially since he seems hurt.

I realy don't see any value to lumping together dissimilar players players historically, with Easley being the only potential hybrid.

It's easy to see the difference between a prime Sey, wilf, Warren line and a cheap, poor patch (Adalius, for his price) linebacking corps as the great lb corps aged. The Gary Guyton, Pierre Woods type LB corps were protected by the great line and as the line aged, they were not replaced by 1st round picks (other than future man, hybrid Easley, who is obviously recent).

Rather Wilfork and Love and a ton of 7th round picks tried to hold the fort while the invested in the LBs for the first time since Parcells (Mayo, Collins, Hightower and I include the pass rushing role Chandler here).

So they've patched with Tommy Kelly, two young free agents who got their battle promotion last year and a huge guy who got a DUI.

I'd say just the division between the stout types and the linebacker types shows an ebb and flow of investment that is lost by lumping them together.

As i say, comparison wise, we can't compare Easley yet, because we don't really know what type of defense they have in mind if/when he becomes the dominant player we expect.

 

[RayClay]

I mention Easley as a transition to a new type of interior lineman, especially since he seems hurt.

I realy don't see any value to lumping together dissimilar players players historically, with Easley being the only potential hybrid.

It's easy to see the difference between a prime Sey, wilf, Warren line and a cheap, poor patch (Adalius, for his price) linebacking corps as the great lb corps aged. The Gary Guyton, Pierre Woods type LB corps were protected by the great line and as the line aged Seymour and Warren, were not replaced by 1st round picks (other than future man, hybrid Easley, who is obviously recent).

Rather Wilfork and Love and a ton of 7th round picks tried to hold the fort while the invested in the LBs for the first time since Parcells (Mayo, Collins, Hightower and I include the pass rushing role Chandler here).

So they've patched with Tommy Kelly, two young free agents who got their battle promotion last year and a huge guy who got a DUI.

I'd say just the division between the stout types and the linebacker types shows an ebb and flow of investment that is lost by lumping them together.

As i say, comparison wise, we can't compare Easley yet, because we don't really know what type of defense they have in mind if/when he becomes the dominant player we expect.

 

[mgteich]

I count picks as part of investment. So I don't see Solder, Vereen, or (in the past) Maroney as cheap players.

I also don't see Solder as a cheap player. We've spent a 1st, 2nd and 5th on our OT's. I guess it is the interior line that we have spent so little on.

With regard to running back, I don't think that we spend much compared to the rest of the league. Vereen is a receiver as much as a running back. That is the reason he was drafted early.

Besides, the issue is allocation of resources. We have less resources than others since we draft late. But the issues is the same. How should we use our resources? We can talk about best player available all we wish. I think that Belichick favors the defensive front seven early in the draft, and wide receivers in free agency.

BOTTOM LINE
Where is the money and top draft choices? Where does Belichick put more money and where does he put less.

AN ASIDE
I have thought that one planned weakness has been backup/rotational DE. Moore and Buchanan are not exactly a serious commitment. The team has been extremely vulnerable to an injury at DE forcing Ninkovich and Jones to play over 90% of the reps last year. The MIRACLE this year has been the acquisition of Ayers. I don't want to think of where we'd be with Moore as our full-time starting DE.

 

[mgteich]

Yes there are 3 groups: DT, DE/OLB and LB. We can celebrate the acquisition of Jones, Hightower and Collins (and we should). We were still extremely thin at DE/OLB unit we acquired Ayers.

I'd say just the division between the stout types and the linebacker types shows an ebb and flow of investment that is lost by lumping them together.

 

[RayClay]

Actually, I meant Easley.

I did address that and more, but it does warrant a response. Easley wouldn't have been drafted in our championshipyears, I don't believe. I could be wrong, but he is not a direct replacement for anyone. On our team his role went to a part time player like Mike Wright, he isn't built to do what our linemen did exceptionally well.

He is, therefore, a transition figure until we see how he will be used. Maybe he's more a Richard Dent or Willie McGinest in the elephant role, which would make him as close to a linebacker in function as he is to our classic 3 championship DL.

Our linebacking corps has changed too, yet we can still say we invested high picks starting with Mayo, but never before (1sts, 2nds BB era). We drafted linebackers, before we used converted DEs or hybrids except for Phifer.

With Easley not really contributing much yet, our DL is a patch grafted onto an aging Wilfork that is a good patch. Easley is from the future, at this point. No one knows exactly what investments and changes in roles the future holds.

 

[RayClay]

I also don't see Solder as a cheap player. We've spent a 1st, 2nd and 5th on our OT's. I guess it is the interior line that we have spent so little on.

With regard to running back, I don't think that we spend much compared to the rest of the league. Vereen is a receiver as much as a running back. That is the reason he was drafted early.

Besides, the issue is allocation of resources. We have less resources than others since we draft late. But the issues is the same. How should we use our resources? We can talk about best player available all we wish. I think that Belichick favors the defensive front seven early in the draft, and wide receivers in free agency.

BOTTOM LINE
Where is the money and top draft choices? Where does Belichick put more money and where does he put less.

AN ASIDE
I have thought that one planned weakness has been backup/rotational DE. Moore and Buchanan are not exactly a serious commitment. The team has been extremely vulnerable to an injury at DE forcing Ninkovich and Jones to play over 90% of the reps last year. The MIRACLE this year has been the acquisition of Ayers. I don't want to think of where we'd be with Moore as our full-time starting DE.

You are right they have hesitated to spend high for a pass rusher. I think the expensive bust rate, or the one dimensionality of some has scared them off. They definitely hit with chandler, but i think they feel they can get pressure better by hitting from a variety of places such as linebacker and the acquisition of Easley.

They did it in their heyday and never had situational pass rushing backups that i can recall.

 

[RayClay]

Yes there are 3 groups: DT, DE/OLB and LB. We can celebrate the acquisition of Jones, Hightower and Collins (and we should). We were still extremely thin at DE/OLB unit we acquired Ayers.

I'd say that's a good way to break it down, but really, do we need a strict DE/OLB on the bench? (not that I'm against it) aren't Collins, Hightower and Ayers good DE/OLB any time they want to be?