Pondering the future of our LINEBACKER Position

[ATippett56]

I said the EXACT same thing the year Andy Katzenmoyer came into the league and was drafted by the Pats

Katzenmoyer was a well documented idiot who did not take studying seriously.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Calvin Pace is a converted DE who has played well for the Cardnials new coaching staff. He's a UFA.

Dansby would be my first choice.

I like Haggans, if he's available.

IMO, the Pats are a lock to draft a top DB, assuming Samuel walks.

OT NOTE: I like the Giants UFA FS, Gabril Wilson. He'd be a nice pickup.

 

[emoney_33]

Calvin Pace is a converted DE who has played well for the Cardnials new coaching staff. He's a UFA.

Dansby would be my first choice.

I like Haggans, if he's available.

IMO, the Pats are a lock to draft a top DB, assuming Samuel walks.

OT NOTE: I like the Giants UFA FS, Gabril Wilson. He'd be a nice pickup.

I used to assume Samuel would walk. I'm not so sure anymore

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

I used to assume Samuel would walk. I'm not so sure anymore

He wants Clements money. Maybe more. The AJC reports that the Falcons will likely make a big run at him in FA.

Despite his great game against Philly, I don't think Asante is worth that much under a salary cap. The Pats can get a top CB in the top-5 of the draft and improve the safety and LB (and RB?) corps in FA.

When you put too much money in one position, you'll weaken others.

JMHO

 

[ALP]

i dont think we have the money to just sign other experienced LB's from the FA...

my prediction is we will start with andrews and woods when Seau and Chad leave...

Brushchi will come back for one year for the lone purpose of teaching the new top pick LB a couple of things...and play little football...

Vrabel will stay, and AD will be in the outside, with Pierre alternating between the 3, which would give us a pretty good 3 on the outside...

then we will start season with andrews and Bru in the inside...until about halfway through season, when the top LB from the draft will start coming into the rotation...

i think Colvin is gone, and i think we may replace him with someone else, preferably vilma, so he can play ILB

 

[Gumby]

He wants Clements money. Maybe more. The AJC reports that the Falcons will likely make a big run at him in FA.

Despite his great game against Philly, I don't think Asante is worth that much under a salary cap. The Pats can get a top CB in the top-5 of the draft and improve the safety and LB (and RB?) corps in FA.

When you put too much money in one position, you'll weaken others.

JMHO

but BB likes vets. Also in the DBs. He hasn't thrown too many rookies out there yet. He seems to have a shorter string on DBs than LBs (rook dbs do get out there at year 2-3). DL seem to be the only ones who go straight from college to starters.

So I think we need to keep Asante or we end up with a 3rd rate secondary; especially with rodney aging.

With cap limits though; I dont see how we afford both Moss and Asante and then go out FA overspending to get a limited pool of LBs to come here.

If Pats make it to SB - you are going to have to see a marvelous Bioli job of managing the cap or a couple of guys who want to give us hometown discounts in the offseason to see them put this team back together again at the level it is at now.

 

[PatsFanVancouver]

Is it probable they will trade the high pick for veteran defensive help?

 

[Jimke]

My unfortunate prediction is we will end up sticking a couple green rookies or JAGS into the lineup and the will stink because we didn't develop LBs years ago when we had a chance.

Of course I hope I'm wrong.

I don't think we will plug in any rookies but probably will plug in

Monte Beisel and Chad Brown types.

 

[RussFrancis]

On Asante-

Im hoping, I repeat hoping, the team will be able to give Samuel about 25-30mil upfront at an average of about $7mil/ year to keep hold on to him. The guy is absolutely one of the 3 best corners in the league. He may even be the best. And he is as close to 'shut down' as there is in the game. I would hope he'd consider staying if he gets the right amount of upfront bonus money to make him a rich man and keep him happy. Im sure he'd love to stay, but realistically knows there's alot of money out there waiting for him. I dont want to see him crush the team's cap, but he's gonna be a hard guy to replace he walks. Guys that good just dont grow on trees.

 

[mcbee]

Pats are dumb for not developing rookies in previous years who would now be capable starters.

I know they like vets but how is that cap efficient to sign FAs all the time? Unless they're loser FAs like monty beisel. How was spending a 3rd on Duane Starks smart? He sucked. I don't think there are a lot of vets coming up into FA anyway. Hire some waiver wire guys, don't know how much you'd get out of that.

Hopefully, they'll make it through this year OK, but next year could be a big problem.

 

[Jimke]

On Asante-

Im hoping, I repeat hoping, the team will be able to give Samuel about 25-30mil upfront at an average of about $7mil/ year to keep hold on to him. The guy is absolutely one of the 3 best corners in the league. He may even be the best. And he is as close to 'shut down' as there is in the game. I would hope he'd consider staying if he gets the right amount of upfront bonus money to make him a rich man and keep him happy. Im sure he'd love to stay, but realistically knows there's alot of money out there waiting for him. I dont want to see him crush the team's cap, but he's gonna be a hard guy to replace he walks. Guys that good just dont grow on trees.

If they had a couple good cornebacks waiting in the wings, I would say let him walk. They don't. Rookie cornerbacks are not the answer nor are second tier players like Duane Starks, Tory James, and Eric Warfield.
What seems an outrageous bonus and salary today may be the norm in
a couple of years. Compare Seymour's salary vs Freeny's salary.

 

[DaBruinz]

Good post, John.

According to KFFL, Bruschi and Vrabel are also UFAs.

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=LB&y=2008

Are you sure about Haggins, Hobson and Thompson? Their names aren't listed with the other '08 FAs.

I don't think that Dontarrius Thomas is too small for ILB, at least not WILB.

Teddy Lehman and Raonall Smith are two other names to consider.

Vrabel isn't a FA. He's signed through 2010.

I don't believe Haggans is a UFA as he just re-signed with the Steelers 2 years ago.

 

[patpatriot]

Not to mention did any of you/us geniuses think that Vrabel guy he picked up because Pittsburgh didn't see a reason to keep him would be a pro bowl caliber starter here at OLB with the capacity to move inside if needed?

No, I didn't think so...

Bill and Scott know things we don't. They have a seperate staff scouting the pros full time. A guy Joe fan and some other HC thinks is nothing on a mismanaged roster can project as a potential crown jewel in Belichick's scheme. The scheme takes into account not just what a position does in this system, but what a particular player's skill set can be worked around in conjunction with others to bring to the position. Sometimes Bill has a better read on these guys than they have opinions of themselves. Rodney was kind of fighting for that last contract somewhere with a washed up sign stuck to his back when he met with Bill at the Ground Round and before even asking how his health was, Bill said "we want you". And as a result he basically had Harrison at "hello". And we all know how that turned out.

Monty Beisel

 

[DaBruinz]

In eight years Bill Belichick has not drafted a linebacker higher

than the fifth round. I do not expect him to do so in 2008. He

obviously prefers to sign a veteran free agent. Unfortunately,

very few teams play a 3-4 defense.

Jesus. And prior to Mankins, he'd never drafted an interior lineman there. And prior to Wilfork, BB had only drafted 1 junior player.

BB fulled intended to draft Stewart Bradley in the 3rd round this year. Problem was he couldn't find a trade partner to move up and the Eagles snatched him before the Pats could. That's why the Pats traded the pick to Oakland

 

[MoLewisrocks]

On Asante-

Im hoping, I repeat hoping, the team will be able to give Samuel about 25-30mil upfront at an average of about $7mil/ year to keep hold on to him. The guy is absolutely one of the 3 best corners in the league. He may even be the best. And he is as close to 'shut down' as there is in the game. I would hope he'd consider staying if he gets the right amount of upfront bonus money to make him a rich man and keep him happy. Im sure he'd love to stay, but realistically knows there's alot of money out there waiting for him. I dont want to see him crush the team's cap, but he's gonna be a hard guy to replace he walks. Guys that good just dont grow on trees.

They certainly would be able to do that - this is a top tier revenue franchise. They will not do it because he's not that good, we don't need a corner that good at that price, and they have a salary structure to maintain that guarantees THEY WILL NOT GIVE A DB MORE IN SIGNING BONUS OR SALARY THAN BRADY AND SEYMOUR!!!!!!!

Yeesh....

BTW he was a 4th round draft pick who replaced a perennial pro bowl shut down corner who wanted too much money as a % of this teams cap - go figure.

 

[emoney_33]

They certainly would be able to do that - this is a top tier revenue franchise. They will not do it because he's not that good, we don't need a corner that good at that price, and they have a salary structure to maintain that guarantees THEY WILL NOT GIVE A DB MORE IN SIGNING BONUS OR SALARY THAN BRADY AND SEYMOUR!!!!!!!

Yeesh....

BTW he was a 4th round draft pick who replaced a perennial pro bowl shut down corner who wanted too much money as a % of this teams cap - go figure.

No doubt about it. They will offer Samuel a GOOD contract, but if he wants to be greedy and/or paid a ton, he won't be getting it here. I'm hoping Samuel doesn't let that greed get to him and takes the very nice contract that the pats will surely offer him.

Here's to hoping Samuel has more Bruschi than Branch in him...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Monty Beisel

...was a stop gap along with Brown brought in to rotate at filling the void after Tedy's stroke and before BB knew TJ was gonna retire on the eve of camp and Rodney was gonna hit the blow out the knee trifecta out of the gate. Bill's had more veteran hits than misses, which is why we have 3 rings.

 

[solman]

1. I will be STUNNED if we draft a linebacker on day 1 of the draft. If we do, this young linebacker would have to be "SPECIAL", and I mean Richard Seymour / Teddy Bruschi / Mike Vrabel "SPECIAL".

I, and many others on this board, we all excited about Patrick Willis back when he was projected to go as low as our 28th.

Its a shame that people eventually realized how talented he was, but had he slipped to 24th, I'll bet BB would have had the sense to take him.

 

[Ring 6]

Ever since BB arrived, this discussion has contiuned.

After winning the SB in 2001:

What are we going to do about the LB postion?
Vrabel had a nice year for a cast off, but he isnt really the answer.
Bruschi is good, but is he really a 4-3 MLB? And if we go to a 3-4 who else is playing next to him? Cox is old, Ted Johnson stinks.
We have Phifer outside, but he may retire.

I bet we are now a 43 team, because we just dont have any LBs, and don't tell me we can take Willie McGinest from DE and try to make him an OLB again. Hes always hurt, and we played a 43 because he cant play OLB.
Whatever it is we need a lot of LBs. We are going to be in big trouble by 03, 04. By 2007 the guys we draft in 02 and 03 will be the core of the defense.


I bet BB definitely drafts a LB in round 1, because he has to, and every pro-bowl FA LB should be signed in FA. Otherwise we will never win another SB with these aging slow LBs.
Sound familiar?

 

[IcyPatriot]

For this year don't be surprised if Rodney isn't playing more of a LB/S hybrid like he did against Dallas Clark and Indy.

I agree ... also, these last 2 drafts I was sure Belichick would be the 1st to employ a double safety in their formation. This draft I'm going to bet the house that he finally will do it ... it's the future IMO.

The greatest playmakers Harrison, Reed, Sanders to name a few ... why stop at 1 when you can have 2....so ... we'll see but I hope I'm right.

3 - DL's
1- DL/LB
2 - Mike type LB's
2 - Sam/Will LB/SS
3 - CB and the FS position will be phased out.