Poll: Which tight ends make the final 53?

[signbabybrady]

I think this may be swaying a lot of fans' thinking too much. The gap between draft-day expectations and gameday impact shouldn't be part of the equation at this point -- we just want the best 2009 roster we can put together. I'd be surprised if Watson didn't make that cut.

you better watch out logic doesn't always fly around here.

 

[wdkantro2]

Baker did get a $1.5M signing bonus, but his contract is like what Kelley Washington and Stallworth's contracts were like; sounded huge and long term, but really weren't. The deal is more like a 2 year deal because they need to pick up an option in 2011 for the other 3 years. None of that money is guaranteed, so if they were to release him today, his hit (I believe) is only equal to his signing bonus. I don't know if that is prohibitively big or not, but you can count on the fact that the best TEs will make the team, not just the most expensive ones.
I just have a hard time getting by the fact that a less-than-stellar Jets team didn't want him, scored 0 TDs last year, and has only gained 400 yards once in his career.

 

[JD10367]

I think Baker and Smith stay, everyone else goes. Thomas gets injured too often, and Watson just never reached the next level and is a guy they can get value for in a trade. This team is very heavy with WR and RB, so I think they only carry two TEs to start. (What the hell, Brady almost never uses them anyway, preferring to throw to the backs if the receivers aren't open...)

 

[patchick]

Im going to go the risk that Ben Watson will be delt to Kc for a third and a fifth.

Watson goes to the Bungles for a 4

Watson just never reached the next level and is a guy they can get value for in a trade.

OK...so the consensus is that Watson is worthless to the Pats AND Watson has the highest trade value of any of the TEs? How convenient!

Nothing I've seen from Smith or Baker makes me think that they'll scare defenses much. Watson's inconsistent, but he still looks like the best pass-catching TE on the roster.

 

[signbabybrady]

OK...so the consensus is that Watson is worthless to the Pats AND Watson has the highest trade value of any of the TEs? How convenient!

Nothing I've seen from Smith or Baker makes me think that they'll scare defenses much. Watson's inconsistent, but he still looks like the best pass-catching TE on the roster.

there you go using that logic thing again......I think Smith has looked pretty good out there in camp but I would still agree Watson is our best TE passing threat.

 

[JD10367]

OK...so the consensus is that Watson is worthless to the Pats AND Watson has the highest trade value of any of the TEs? How convenient!

No one said he was "worthless" to them. But his time here is done. Like Graham, he's never taken it to the next level. And he's obviously worth a decent amount in trade, especially compared to the other guys. Just because a player is traded doesn't mean he sucks (see Burgess, Randy Moss, Jay Cutl... okay, well, the jury's out on that one...).

 

[patriot lifer]

I think this may be swaying a lot of fans' thinking too much. The gap between draft-day expectations and gameday impact shouldn't be part of the equation at this point -- we just want the best 2009 roster we can put together. I'd be surprised if Watson didn't make that cut.

i would still be surprised too, even though i still pick him out as a possibile cut. disregarding his first round pick status, I still don't see him as either a good pass-catcher or a very good blocker. and those are the two dimensions for which we measure TE's. he doesn't run very good routes and he doesn't have naturally soft hands. Whenever he's thrown the ball, I think "don't drop it you clutz." his blocking ability supposedly improves over the course of the season. i will always have this lasting image of him completely whiffing on a block in one of last year's preseason games (it was pretty embarrassing). i can't help but think that there has to be someone better of our TE's in camp that can be more reliable come the longevity of the season (and blocking our precious Brady from nasty Pollard-like characters) and for the playoffs when we face the best of the league's pass rushers (and need an above-average blocker).

nevertheless, he'll probably still make the team. i don't know what everyone else is seeing in him, but BB sees it and that's all that matters.

 

[patchick]

No one said he was "worthless" to them. But his time here is done. Like Graham, he's never taken it to the next level. And he's obviously worth a decent amount in trade, especially compared to the other guys. Just because a player is traded doesn't mean he sucks (see Burgess, Randy Moss, Jay Cutl... okay, well, the jury's out on that one...).

OK, I guess there are two different value calculations to be made. Let's say you could trade Watson for a 5th -- which is essentially a low 4th, given the Burgess trade terms. And let's say you couldn't trade the other TEs at all.

If those hypotheticals held true, the decision is no longer "Ben Watson vs. Alex Smith" but "Ben Watson vs. [Alex Smith + a low 4th.]"

So I guess it is possible for Watson to be our best TE and for him to be the one to go. But if he's really the best of the bunch, I'd rather keep this year's roster stacked.

 

[signbabybrady]

nevertheless, he'll probably still make the team. i don't know what everyone else is seeing in him, but BB sees it and that's all that matters.

for me it was his prodution in 05 and 06 that stands out between the 2 seasons he caught about 70 balls for over a thousands yards. none of the other TE on the roster have a 2 year span like that.

His production declined since then but there are logical reasons in 07 it was the Moss and Welker show and last year he didn't have Tom and Cassel felt more comfortable with the afformentioned Moss and Welker.

Obviously BB wasn't happy with his decline in production and not just him but the TE position as a whole because he brought in two new guys. So hopefully now that Ben is back on the field the competition can bring out the best in him.

 

[JD10367]

OK, I guess there are two different value calculations to be made. Let's say you could trade Watson for a 5th -- which is essentially a low 4th, given the Burgess trade terms. And let's say you couldn't trade the other TEs at all.

If those hypotheticals held true, the decision is no longer "Ben Watson vs. Alex Smith" but "Ben Watson vs. [Alex Smith + a low 4th.]"

So I guess it is possible for Watson to be our best TE and for him to be the one to go. But if he's really the best of the bunch, I'd rather keep this year's roster stacked.

Well, I guess that depends on how much Belichick values him. Yes, Watson might be the most naturally-talented of the bunch. But he also has oven mitts for hands. With his price tag and trade value, is it worth it to keep a guy who might drop a crucial ball?

And it's all about production, really. His best year was around 650 yards (2006). In 2007 it was 300 and change. Last year? Watson was 5th on the team in receiving yardage with a measly 22 catches for 209 yards, less than half the yardage that Gaffney and Faulk each caught. Do we think that the two news guys can replace, or better, those numbers? It would be hard for them not to.

 

[patriot lifer]

for me it was his prodution in 05 and 06 that stands out between the 2 seasons he caught about 70 balls for over a thousands yards. none of the other TE on the roster have a 2 year span like that.

His production declined since then but there are logical reasons in 07 it was the Moss and Welker show and last year he didn't have Tom and Cassel felt more comfortable with the afformentioned Moss and Welker.

Obviously BB wasn't happy with his decline in production and not just him but the TE position as a whole because he brought in two new guys. So hopefully now that Ben is back on the field the competition can bring out the best in him.

true, he did have a decent number of receptions and production in 2005 and 2006, however most of it was in 2006 when he had 49 receptions (3 per game) as opposed to 2005 when he had 29 receptions (2 per game). I remember 2006 when we were predicting that he was going to have a bunch of receptions (and more than 49), because the offense had no one to throw to. I look at his 49 receptions as less of an indication of his production than as an indication of the state of the offense (lacking genuine receiving targets). although, i don't remember how he blocked in those years, so I can't speak intelligently on that matter.

 

[State]

Why is everyone so sold on Baker? I was never impressed with him with the Jets, and he caught zero TDs last year. Why on earth is he "the only lock??"

Why? Why ask why?

–The OLB/DE group worked with the TE/T in early group work. The former were working to set the edge in the running game while the latter was trying to open up space for the running backs. Both sides had their share of wins in the work, although Chris Baker notably crushed Pierre Woods on one rep.

That's your purported starting OLB getting his arse handed to him.

Source: Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog Blog Archive From the Hart: Sunday morning hose-down

Oh, by the way, Baker has much better foot speed than Kyle Brady. In college Baker had outrageous speed for such a big man. I'm surprised he lasted until the third round in the draft (same year as Watson who, I agree, is notable trade bait).