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Poll: Tomase a victim?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatriotsReign, May 17, 2008.

?

How do you feel regarding tomasse's role in the Walsh story?

Poll closed May 20, 2008.
  1. He was just doing his job & I'l forgive him

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  2. He gave in to tremendous pressure in an overly-competitive environment - I'll forgive him

    4 vote(s)
    3.8%
  3. He was irresponsible on the Walsh story - I don't know if I'll forgive him

    12 vote(s)
    11.5%
  4. He was purposefully negligent and did not care - I'll never forgive him

    29 vote(s)
    27.9%
  5. He sold his soul for personal gain & apologized due to fan reaction - He can burn in hell

    58 vote(s)
    55.8%
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  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    (Mods please delete the previous "poll" thread I posted)

    I figured this might be the best way to combat any effort to portray Tomasse as a victim. Let's get an anonymous opinion of Tomasse's actions relative to his role in bringing the Walsh (non)story to print.
  2. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    MODS; This is the thread I want to KEEP.
  3. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    I didn't understand the descriptions attached to the levels of forgiveness (or lack thereof). That is, I don't know what purposely negligent means, but then, I'm not a lawyer.

    I won't forgive him, not ever. OTOH, burning in hell is pretty severe punishment, so I hear.
  4. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    As I said in the other thread, "He isn't a victim. But he isn't a evil villain either. He is a guy who made a mistake.

    Let summarize the mistake. Assuming that a guy who job is to videotape games was at an opposing teams practice, then he must have been there to tape it."

    On the issue of forgiving him. I neither forgive nor not forgive him. He didn't do anything to ME. He did not defame me.

    Kraft, BB, and the 2001 Patriot players must decide if they forgive him or not. That is there call, not mine.

    (Side note: If you want to read a great book on Forgiveness, read "The Sunflower" by Simon Wiesenthal. I take the Jewish stance on forgiveness, that only the one harmed can forgive, it is not up to others. Likewise I can not forgive or not the Catholic priest who molested children. Only those molested can forgive or not forgive. The Christian view is you can forgive someone who did not harm you, makes no sense to me.)

    For those of us who were not actually employed by the New England Patriots, the question is not of forgiveness but of trust. Can we trust the accuracy of Mr. Tomasse's reporting going forward?

    Quite frankly I never thought the reporting in the Herald was that good before this, preferring the NYT or BG for better news. The only reason I would ever read the Herald is if I wanted to read something and the other papers were sold out, or if I was taking mass transit, because it is easier to read. Nothing that has happened as changed by view of the relatively poor reporting of the Herald.
  5. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    I voted for the last one, but of course, he was a victim - of his own delusions of granduer. Also, since his imagination was his "source" he was a victim of that as well. It is incredibile to me that this guy has not been fired or at least reassigned.
  6. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    Apparently neither is the OP. The legal term would be reckless, "conscious disregard of a known danger."
  7. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    thanks for the explanation... You're a lawyer I presume?
  8. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    not yet, but in the process.
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    I agree that Tomase didn't act in malice. He acted ambitiously, overly ambitiously. He wanted to leave his mark on the sports world. He gambled that this story would thrust him into the national spotlight. Unfortunately for him, it did.

    Tomase is guilty of breaking the journalistic code of reporting a rumor as fact and rushing a story to print to be first, but not neccessarily right. Those are both inexcusable offenses.

    I still believe that although Tomase deserves to be criticized, there are still more media organizations that deserve more of the Pats fans ire. There are people in the media who are literally out to get the Patriots. A large number of them are at ESPN and the New York Times. Remember if it wasn't for the Times, Tomase would have never written his story.
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    Then I assume you're working hard...good luck in your pursuit.
  11. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    I was going to post this on another thread.
    Ten years ago or so he and the editor most likely would have been fired or suspended for a long time. But now if you keep denying any wrong doing,play the victim,and basically just hang on long enough things blow over and you get to keep your job. IMO
  12. makoute

    makoute Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    Where is the option: He made it up, hoping he was right, and I think he should resign?
  13. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    Maybe in another year, or after another Super Bowl, the anger might dim a bit so-as to change my selection to: He was irresponsible on the Walsh story - I don't know if I'll forgive him.

    But for now, I'm still so pissed at him that I went with: Sold his soul.
  14. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    Like I said in another "victim" thread:
    The only thing TomAASe is a victim of is a large dose of Big Mac's with extra cheese, donuts, and no exercise. Which are all in his control. Also in his control was running a story on a hunch.
    Last edited: May 17, 2008
  15. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    Sold his soul, for fame, and got fame, only the wrong kind.......

    I have no sorrow for this individual, his actions were of his own choosing, and his consequences are his own as well.
  16. castlelong1

    castlelong1 Banned

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    I forgive him and wish him well covering High School Sports for the Des Moines Register.
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    Nice random selection of a "small market" newspaper...where did that come from?:confused:
    Last edited: May 17, 2008
  18. Angry Man

    Angry Man REV-OH-LU-TION PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I say purposefully negligent myself. Its too convient that he had this story published right before the Super Bowl. Now that he opened the Pandora's Box that was nearly locked up I don't forgive him at all.
  19. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

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    Up until Tomase's "explanation" I did not figure that we could know how much responsibility he had versus the possibility that he was 'assigned' to the story.

    From his "explanation", if he's telling the truth, he had an enormous amount of responsibility in the collecting of 'source' information and putting the story together. To say the least, it turned out to be a flamingly irresponsible exercise of journalism - acutally I think it's fair to say you can't call this article 'jounalism'. It should more properly be labelled as tabloid sensationalism.

    The impact of his story will never leave the Patriots image.

    Therefore, it seems fair that the stigma of his irresponsibility should never be allowed to leave him.
  20. Joker

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    My only question is....is Tomase that Jared kid from the Subway commercial pre weight loss? Or the androgynous Pat from that Saturday Night Live sketch?
  21. DarrylS

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    What he did was unforgivable, he needs to move on to another city, another beat or even another profession..
  22. Angry Man

    Angry Man REV-OH-LU-TION PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd say Pat myself.
  23. SpiderFox53

    SpiderFox53 Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    While I agree that only the person harmed can give forgiveness. I disagree completely that we as fans were not harmed by that story.
  24. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    To some extent everyone in society is harmed, every time a member of society acts wrongfully.

    I was sickened by reading the accounts of Catholic Priest molesting children. I was shocked by the images of the blown apart Federal Building in Okl city. To some extent I was harmed by both of those. By I was not the victim in either of those case, I was a bystander.

    Many fans have allowed the "12th man" myth pervert their thinking. Unless you draw a paycheck from Bob Kraft, calling the Patriots "we" is a stretch. On Sundays, I do not call plays, catch balls, or tackle the opposing team, I convert beer into urine. I do not win or lose football games, the Patriots do.

    I am considerable more sickened by reading the accounts of what happened to the victims of child molesters, then I have ever been by what Tomasse did.

    But it is not my place to forgive or not forgive the child molesters. I was not the victim, my harm was secondary. In fact even if it was my own child it would not be my place to forgive or not to forgive. It would the child's. If you were to rape my sister, I could neither forgive you, nor not forgive -- only my sister could.

    This make murder unforgivable, there is no one to ask forgiveness to.

    Tomase defamed BB. He defamed the 2001 Patriots squad. It is up to them, not me to decide to forgive him or not.
  25. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Tomase a victim?

    What happened - did some anonmymous second hand party accuse him of being a child molester and the Herald went and reported it in the paper?
  26. BSR

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    I voted "He was purposefully negligent and did not care - I'll never forgive him." but I can forgive him. It is just football afterall.
  27. Evil Tom

    Evil Tom Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?


    There's 2 things a newspaper reporter can't do. You can't use someone else's work and present it as your own and you can't write fiction and present it as fact. It's also a bad idea to write a story that gets the readers to boycott your paper and companies that advertise in it.

    The reason he went with the story is he knew a reporter from the NY Times was talking to Walsh. Tomasse probably just thought "If I run my rumors first and he nails down the story with real sources a day or 2 later I'll get the credit." That's not plagiarism but it's not that far from it. It's certainly unethical, but if his speculation had turned out to be true Tomasse might have even won an award for it. It might have helped him get a job in the future if/when the Herald goes out of business.

    It's fair to question whether his unnamed source exists as anything more than someone who confirmed they had also heard the rumors. He never saw a videotape. No one he talked to ever saw a video tape. He doesn't even explain what his one "strong" source told him. Why was this a strong source? A reporter is supposed to present facts not conjecture.
  28. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    I don't agree at all.

    By YOUR logic, Belichik only owed an apology to Kraft, yet he apologized to all Patriots fans. We are all part of this, it's not a "corporate thing".

    We as fans are "owed" a lot of things...
  29. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Re: Poll: Tomasse a Victim?

    I won't argue he wasn't wrong.

    He was wrong. He made a mistake. No debate there. Everyone agrees including Tomasse that he violated the rules of journalism.

    He presented conjecture as facts. And he got it wrong. But he is not the first and we won't be the last journalist to do this. And he did it on relatively minor issue -- a sporting event. Not the economy, not WMD, not the military record of a presidential candidate, not the safety of automobiles, not inspection of nuclear power plant, not baby food safety, not the rescue of a POW, not on terrorism -- but on a game.

    I dare say if every journalist who did what Tomasse did was fired, then every newspaper would have a crossword puzzle and cooking section -- and thats it.
  30. jsinger121

    jsinger121 Rookie

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    Tomase is no victim. He is a careless sportswriter who should be fired from the Herald. If anyone of us in the regular world made a mistake like that at our job we would have been canned. Its that simple.
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