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Poll: The Red Sox are being structured for sale to a new majority owner

Discussion in 'Red Sox Fan Forum' started by goheels22002, Aug 1, 2014.

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True or False: The Red Sox are being structured to be sold to a new majority owner.

  1. True

    33.3%
  2. False

    33.3%
  3. The opening poster is insane

    33.3%
  1. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    The modest long term salary commitments, solid TV/radio revenues, loyal fan base, terrific Fenway Park upgrades, talented baseball management group, and strong farm system make the Red Sox an attractive investment for anybody with the money to buy John Henry's stake.

    Henry is moving onto being a media mogul and international sports owner in soccer. He's got three rings and his buddy Larry Lucchino turns 70 next year and has little to prove in major league baseball.

    If the Clippers are worth $2 Billion (!?!) what can Henry get for the Red Sox?
     
  2. captain insano

    captain insano In the Starting Line-Up

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    #11 Jersey

    we will have a better idea after the off season.
     
  3. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    0.0000% chance this group sells the Saux....Not a chance.
    1) Did the Clippers sell for $2 billion because they were a low payroll team?
    Are the Marlins more valuable because they reside near the bottom of annual payroll?
    This train of thought is 1970's thinking.
    Just look at what this ownership has been able to achieve thanks to a guaranteed and growing revenue stream in an obscenely high margin business: NESN/NASCAR/Liverpool/Boston Globe/Sports Marketing. The Saux are the incubator that has enabled all that expansion. No way they punt away their one invincible asset.
    2) Why is Donald Sterling so adverse to accepting a $2 billion check for his team (besides the fact that his team is being stolen from him IMO), because they like being the owner of a high profile business and the notoriety that comes with it. Does anyone think John Henry is different. You don't achieve lofty community/national status being the best damn widget manufacturer in New England. They love their life and who can blame them. Think about Robert Kraft. Pats fans revere him so highly, they refer to him as Mr. Kraft. You don't get put on such a lofty pedestal owning Jordan's Furniture. You don't wine and dine movie stars and politicians and attractive nieces owning Super Cuts.
    3) About 15 years ago I went to a big birthday party dinner in S Florida and I was seated next to Wayne Huizenga's #2 man....and at the time Huizenga owned the Dolphins, the Marlins, and the Panthers hockey team. This guy was in charge of selling both the Panthers and the Marlins at the time and he ran through the numbers for me of all 3 teams and it was scary the losses Huizenga was taking on baseball and hockey....just getting crushed because the guaranteed revenue was so miniscule for both. His main point was obvious, without guaranteed revenue, ownership was a losing proposition ...especially in a fickle market like S Forida. But not the NFL given the massive guaranteed TV contracts. Now look at the Saux today....as loyal a fan base as you will ever see. I couldn't believe my eyes the other night, the Saux were losing 12-1 late in their game vs Toronto....but Pedroia turned a sweet double play and the crowd went nuts. The stands were full in this blowout and the Fenway faithful were still enjoying themselves on and nice summer night...sucking down their $10 beers and $7 hot dogs. That is a business you don't ever walk way from
    4) I know some fellows that work for Henry's trading operation in Boca, and no doubt that business is a shell of its former greatness, but Henry still owns it and he is very loyal to his guys which is another reason I say no way Henry sells the Saux....at least not until......
    5)These owners are still young with plenty of time to get estate planning in order. Yes ...at some point a sale may be in their families' best interests, but I'd bet the Saux will be the last asset to go. In fact, I'd wager the goal is to do everything possible to make sure the Saux stay in the family for the next generations. Huizenga eventually sold the Dolphins because of estate planning but the Dolphins were never a passion for him, just a toy that a billionaire had to buy at the time. The Saux are definitely not a toy for Henry and his group. IMO
     
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  4. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    ...continued...
    2) to expand on the "notoriety acheived by ownership" topic.......back when George W Bush was running for reelection, he came down to a fundraising dinner in Boca at a rich donors house and local big shots paid $50k per plate to be in the room. A friend attended this dinner and sat at the head table table with Bush....and seated next to Bush was Huizenga, apparently drunk off his ass. And for half the dinner conversation, Bush was busting Huizenga's balls about what a crappy team the Dolphins were. As my friend tells the story, the dinner devolved from a formal atmosphere into frathouse antics, especially between Bush and Huizenga.....the owner of the DOLPHINS. Own a sports team....you get seated at the head table, you have something to talk about with the President, and people treat you on equal levels if not higher. Priceless
    Two side stories about that dinner...my friend sitting across the table from Bush said to him..."Excuse me Mr President, can you pass me the dinner rolls"....so Bush reached into the basket, grabbed a rolled a fired it across the table to him. Another at the table asked Bush about the "Beast", the armored limo that he travels in. Bush told the table he just got the new upgraded Beast and it was parked outside and said "Lets go have a look at it"....so the group started towards the door but Secret service persuaded Bush that that was a bad idea.....for security reasons, no one sees the Beast.
     
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  5. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I wish that Lucky Larry & Rosanne Barr's buddy would sell their stakes in the DeadSux;
    otherwise, I agree that Henry would be foolish to sell.
     
  6. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    It's kinda of funny....three World Series titles in the last decade, one just months ago, and many Saux fans would like to run ownership out of Boston. Then there is the Patriots, a decade without a ring, yet Mr. Kraft is the toast of the town. Outsiders vs Insiders....a funny prejudice don't you think, especially for politically correct Massachusetts, home of the 1/32 Indian Senator, so she claims. :)
     
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  7. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Yeah, I understand how that looks. Still, how much have Lucchino & Werner really contributed
    to the team's on-field success? And how influential was Larry when the disasters of Carl Crawford,
    Adrien Gonzales et. al. were being consummated?

    As for Kraft, he's doing what responsible owners should do: he's allowing the football people to run
    the football operation. Whether he has all the right football people in place is perhaps the subject
    for another thread. Where he has failed however is in better protecting the "brand" and "product"
    (his words) by allowing the Jets employee/Omissioner to permanently carve the scarlett letter C
    on everything the Pats accomplished prior to Opening Day 2007.
     
  8. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    Lucchino has everything to do with the product on the field. It is no accident that ownership hires these 20 something year old GMs who they can mold and control. Essentially they are the hi-tech information accumulators that ownership relies on before they make the major decisions. It has never been more clear how involved ownership is with the final product. No long term contracts to 30+ year old starters...a John Henry edict. No top ranked free agents because of the massive/6 and 7 year deals...another ownership philosophy that Cherington dutifully deploys. The Lester negotiation is all Luchino with the latest being that Larry works best with his back against the wall.
    Running a baseball team is a massive operation and so far more complex than the NFL. One MLB team, a half dozen minor league teams, Scouting that covers all the high schools, colleges, minor leagues, major leagues, foreign countries. Massive bonus to kids who never rise in the system, guaranteed massive contracts to the MLB players .......of course the hand print from ownership touches most every major decision....especially Larry.
    Warner...he's the TV guy but from what I've read, he is more involved with Liverpool than the Saux.
    As far as NE goes, I have a personal belief that the Krafts are very involved on the contract/negotiation side of the business which should be expected. I believe the youth movement inside the coaching staff is partially driven by budget restrictions....with Belichick consuming a massive slice of that pie.

    But back to the insider/outsider discussion. Kraft will always be revered as the local guy who kept NE in NE, though that crisis of potential departure was a self created crisis used as leverage IMO. Kraft built his own stadium with his own money.....worthy of infinite praise as well. Under his stewardship, the team has become big time.....and that occurred before BB arrived so another Kraft driven huge positive.
    Ultimately, the biggest factor why Kraft gets the love and Henry gets mocked despite the Saux abundance of success......Kraft connects with the everyday people.....face to face, in the bars on the streets. in front of the cameras. He is a New Englander. Dr. Creepy, aka John Henry, is the polar opposite....a chardonnay sipping elitist who contacts the masses by email, afraid to make media appearances, never been spotted with boots on the ground. He must be an absolute piece of work that his handlers have to keep such a wall between him and the public. Though, the people I know who know him all respect the guy and admire his loyalty.
     
  9. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Maybe another question or 2 that should be asked then is: has Larry been good for the team,
    and has this iron-clad edict that prohibits long-term contracts to 30+ players been used properly,
    with no room for someone like Lester?
     
  10. captain insano

    captain insano In the Starting Line-Up

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    #11 Jersey

    if there was ever an exception to be made to there so called 30 plus rule. its john lester. and if they wont break the rule for him. then who do they ever break it for? what are the sox now? a small market team like the rays? im all for them being care full and spending there money wisely but cmon. they are a big market team. act like it. at least sometimes.
     
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  11. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    Easy to feel that way when it is not your business... but imagine the Red Saux experiencing what the Yankees have ahead of them over the next several seasons....$50+ million in horrible contracts to just two long term 30+ year players...ARod and Sabathia. It is real money to the owners who write the checks. Look at Verlander...signed through 2019 for $28 mill/ year. His decline has begun....and they had to go get Price because the decline.
    Personally, I think Lester will be back.....too much chatter from current Saux not to think something is in the works
     
  12. captain insano

    captain insano In the Starting Line-Up

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    #11 Jersey

    arod and sabathia arent the yankees home grown and developed players. the sox drafted lester and he grew up in the system. hes a all star and a proven playoff performer. he was there best player. we are talking about one player here. the redsox dont compare to what the yankees spend on payroll. if the redsox are using money as a excuse not to sign lester thats extremlly weak. not to mention the redsox have the highest ticket prices in baseball. i dont want the sox spending crazy money on free agents. but i do want them to keep there own players when they are left handed pitchers in the prime of there careers.
     
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  13. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    I have to disagree with the homegrown loyalty argument....In general, great for public relations and maybe the box office but hasn't BB taught us a few irrefutable lessons in team building: take emotion out of the equation and don't pay a premium for expected declining production. Jeter is the living example of the value of hometown loyalty....lots of nifty feel good moments during his twilight years but unfortunately a substandard producer during this time. Factor in the multiple washed up/washed out/injured $20+ million earners on their roster and that team is likely to watch the playoffs from the golf course club house for the second year in a row. A terrible formula that the Saux want and need to avoid. If the Saux can maneuver adeptly in the next year or so, the AL East is theirs to dominate for a long long time IMO.
    Today's Saux rumor du jour is that the team is going to go hard at both Lester and Stanton in this offseason....and given the stockpile of picks received during trading season plus the nice job they do with creating compensatory picks, Stanton may be doable once the Marlins give in....and they will. It just might not be to the Saux.
    Edit: I wanted to add another point...look what's going on in baseball. Runs are scarce, power is dwindling, and the list of great pitchers in the ML is quite long. Should a team pay these massive premiums for aces in a league having difficulty hitting average pitching. No doubt the playoff teams still believe the ace is the place to go in a playoff hunt....I'm just saying the conversation regarding deploying resources to field pitching staffs likely has shifted somewhat. From my vantage point, it looks like the Saux have prioritized offense with pitching a secondary concern.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  14. captain insano

    captain insano In the Starting Line-Up

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    #11 Jersey

    I didn't suggest they keep lester out of home town loyalty or sentimentality. that has nothing to do with it. take all emotion out of it. they should keep him because he was there best player and pitcher.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  15. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    If the Sux could make the argument that they are choosing to devote capital to power over pitching,
    then I could understand. Unfortunately, they have absolutely no power either; so they might as well
    try to keep the one dependable player on their entire team who projects to maintain that level of
    production for the next several seasons.
     
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  16. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    Define "several"....because it will likely take a six year contract to obtain the desired "next several seasons"
    Herald article this A.M. dampers the Lester returning narrative and instead outlines the pitching plan going forward. Keep in mind, Cherington has been stock piling arms via the draft and now thru trades for the last three years. Seems this plan has been in place for some time and they have just been waiting for the right time to suck. A top 6 draft pick after this season is a nice consolation prize along with being at the front for every round of the draft.

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2014/08/ben_cherington_no_ace_no_problem

    Edit: Regarding this master plan that seems to be moving ahead, probably a year ahead of schedule. Remember, in 2012 they were only giving out 3 year contracts to their new free agents, so this rebuild should not come as a surprise. They want young cost controlled players and the organization has been pointed in this direction for some time. I look at that Yankee roster and cringe to think how that organization continues to kick the can down the road every year...with not much to show for it. If Cherington can get this rebuild right, the Saux could own the AL East for an extended period of time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  17. captain insano

    captain insano In the Starting Line-Up

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    #11 Jersey

    giving john lester a 6 year deal worth 125 to 140 million will not hamstring the redsox payroll going forward. you keep using the yankees situation as an example but there is no comparasion. the yankees have multiple players under huge long term contracts. the redsox do not.
     
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  18. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I have absolutely no problem giving Lester a 6-year contract.
     
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  19. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thanks to all for keeping the discussion going. My feelings regarding what the Saux are up to has definitely evolved over the past few weeks and from all the chatter Big Ben has dropped on the Boston media just in the last two days regarding the construction of the pitching staff....here's what I think the front office is thinking
    1) Given the amemic offenses throughout MLB, Saux leadership likely feels the huge premium required to secure elite pitching doesn't dramatically shift the balance of power as in the past
    2) Prior to the Cespedes and Craig trades, the Saux had maybe only one hitter approaching/in their physical prime. Napoli....maybe, Pedroia....down swing....everyone else pre trade was raw and green....
    3) As this years trade market proved.....Aces can be obtained mid season if you have the right capital to trade...no problem what so ever
    Now pulling these three points together.....Is paying up for an ace for 2015 likely to lift these Saux to the top? Given their rawness...unlikely. But.....lets say these young arms get it together by mid year and management decides to invest in a playoff run, they can easily find that elite pitcher on the market and that pitcher will likely be on a short contract...which will thrill management. It is all about options.
    What I have found interesting just in the past two days is the disparity in stories coming out of Fenway. One day we read the Saux will be taking a run at Lester in the off season. Then Cherington chimes in and says its time to let the young arms develop in the big leagues. Is he bluffing? Time will tell.
    In the past, the Saux have occasionally caved in to public pressure or they have made baseball decisions based on the TV show vs the team. Maybe this group has finally reached the point where they will actually follow through with what they truly believe in....John Henry's version of Money Ball.
    Personally, I'd like to see them give it a go this way. Then again, I'm not a paying customer
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  20. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I'm not a paying customer either, but they now have not one starting pitcher worth a crap unless
    the brittle Buchholz is included.

    And now that I think about it, why trade Lackey when he was going to play for 500K next season?

    And now that I think about it some more, to make room for whom exactly did they feel compelled to release 2 local lefties in Capuano & Hill (who, in the name of full disclosure, is my brother-in-law's brother-in-law)?
     
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