Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by NEPatriot, Dec 22, 2009.
Poll: Most Americans against health care reform | freep.com | Detroit Free Press
I'm in favor of health care reform, but I'm not a fan of the sickman making its way through the legislature right now. The title of the article is misleading. Almost every American wants health care reform, but they can't agree on how to do it.
Anyone who thinks that things are going great now in the healthcare industry are ******* crazy. Costs are out of control and I have to show up to my insurance carrier's office with a club, duct tape, and a Lincoln Town Car to get them to cover the items they said they would.
Most Americans are for health care reform, just not THIS health care reform.
The giveaways to get votes are disgusting. Pretending you're going to cut Medicare when everyone knows you aren't is disgusting. Pretending insurance premiums will go down when they HAVE TO go up as you're mandating insurance takes those with pre existing conditions is disgusting.
The bill sucks, plain and simple.
And how many people are conversant with the specific health care changes being proposed?
It's a good bill. Not perfect (far from it), but a decent first start.
You repeat this claim a lot. Do you have a (reputable) source to back up this assertion?
If George Bush passed this bill, I'd bet that people like you would be hammering it.
Reform is a must in the HC industry. The #1 problem is the rising costs of care. This bill does nothing to curb that. Look no further than Massachusetts to see how gimmick, band aid, ignore the real problem policies can take you. Here, the diarea "reform" has resulted in my premiums rising at twice the national average, and every year since the inception of the "reform". It's the rising costs stupid. That's what the people in DC need to be reminded of.
Do I have to have a link to breath ? Jesus.
Insurance companies have a profit margin of about 3%. Now they're being mandated to take bad risk customers. Where is that going to come from ? Higher premiums. That's how insurance works.
Lots of currently uninsured will pay the $750 annual fine and remain uninsured. Then if something happens and they significant healthcare they can sign up for insurance and can't be denied. Use your brain.
Why do you feel the need to respond to my posts (when I'm not even addressing you) with links to unfunny and trite images?
How can one be conversant with a bill hatched behind closed doors that is being rushed through before people can discover all the pork and payoffs hidden in the thousands of pages.
But polling shows the people don't want this junk.
I'll ask you again: Do you have a link to a reputable source that supports your assertion, and not just some logic chain you managed to formulate in your head?
Because you continue asking others to use their brain when you don't use yours.
George Bush would have never passed a bill like this. But regardless, I wouldn't hammer anyone, because the industry is in massive need of reform and this is probably the best bill that we could get in the current political climate.
The Republicans have absolutely nothing to gain by helping the Democrats pass a bill; hence, why they have no interest in negotiating in good faith.
Ezra Klein - Five cost controls in the Senate health-care bill
If you're just going to troll, you're welcome to become the first addition to my ignore list.
Senate Health-Care Bill Will Raise Insurance Costs - WSJ.com
"CBO found that premiums in the individual market will rise by 10% to 13% more than if Congress did nothing."
There's a ton more, maybe Google doesn't work on your computer. I would give you more links but with the various bills floating around you never know exactly what bill they're referring to.
Turn your brain on - insurance is being MANDATED TO TAKE BAD RISK CUSTOMERS; what do you think will be the result ?
Because it's clear what changes are included in the bill, general reforms, etc.
Look, you can be a smartass all you want, but you made the claim, and therefore the onus is on you to provide support for said claim. That's generally how arguments work
And, as expected, your link doesn't really tell the whole story.
Not only that, but according to the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, costs will also decrease in the long-term.
Chart of the Day: Healthcare Spending | Mother Jones
You asked essentially the same question in the Democratic Governors thread.. Here is my response from that thread describing my concerns/objections/fears re the bill making it's way through Congress. Like most Americans, I want reform, just not THIS 'reform'.
>>>>Off the top of my head...
1)How does it impact the quality of care i. e. waiting periods?
When you add 30 million people to the health care system while keeping the number of providers the same, you will inevitably strain the system and it will be tougher to get an appointment or doctors will be forced to spend less time with patients, it's the law of supply and demand.
2) This bill is supposed to cut $500 billion dollars from Medicare but not from doctors ( to keep it budget neutral) That means less money for hospitals and they must lower staffs affecting quality of care or risk going out of business. If you donâ€™t cut that much money the program will balloon the deficit.
3)The rich get socked because their taxes go up greatly under the House version
4) The middle class (earning over $59K) lose their subsidies and must pay a high percentage of their income in premiums.
5)The lower income will suffer as businesses realize that it is cheaper to not provide health insurance and pay the tax on lower income employees to stay competitive in their industries. Take an employee earning $20K. An 8% tax is $1600 per year which is cheaper than the annual premiums for that person. Then they have to get the insurance themselves and pay
6)Purchasing drugs from Canada or using the bulk purchasing power of Medicare to lower drug costs is eliminated in this bill leading to higher consumer costs.
7)HSA/MSA (Medical Savings Accounts) used by some to lower their health care costs ( high deductible high copays for lower premiums) are outlawed under the reform bill because out of pocket copays and deductibles are capped. If I can afford it, why shouldnâ€™t I be able to assume the risk for a lower premium? It encourages people to stay healthy and not use the health care system since they see that the money is coming out of their own pocket. You can do it with homeowners insurance or auto insurance. Why shouldnâ€™t I be able to do it with my health care insurance????
8) There will still be 23 million uninsured (8% of the population) after this is implemented according to the CBO. So they will still go to the physician and there will still be unreimbursed care for hospitals that will affect their bottom line. Cut their Medicare reimbursements and what happens to their bottom line??.
9) What is the verification process to ensure that only those in this country legally are able to sign up for the program? Anyone who has read my previous postings knows that I'm not xenophobic but I want those here to pay their fair share of taxes if they are to partake of the benefits of this country....
10) By expanding Medicaid ( health care for the indigent) to 4x the poverty level, it expands the pool of eligible recipients. The problem is that Medicaid is paid for by the states and this is essentially an unfunded mandate turned over to the states and handing them the bill at a time when states are struggling financially. The deal Sen. Nelson got was that the Feds pick up what would be Nebraska's share FOREVER.....until Sen. Dorgan said that future Congress' would not be bound by the agreement.....
You just kill yourself, don't you?
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