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Politically, who is health care reform good for?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Dec 19, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If a health care reform is passed and signed by Obama, who do you think it will benefit more, the Republican or Democrats?

    I think even in its current form it will benefit the Democrats more than the Republicans, in part because private insurance companies will start marketing its benefits, which include no limits on coverage, no canceling of someone's insurance because they're too sick, kids will be able to stay on their parents insurance longer, and there are a number of cost cutting measures (such as bundled payments for treatment, rather than paying for procedures piece by piece), but I'm not sure what has survived since early on.

    The Republicans will try to emphasize the cost of it, but I'm not sure that will work much outside the Republican base. I suppose the Republican leadership will also try to terrorize people that HCR is going to be one big disaster, but I'm not sure that is as effective these days without presenting a viable alternative.
  2. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    It wouldn't matter what the democrats passed, you'd be in here saying how awesome it is, or how much it will benefit them. How can a piece of legislation that the people don't want passed, benefit the dems if they alone pass it? I think this bill will hurt the dems, more than it will help. The bill sucks. The bill does nothing to tackle the real problem, which is the rising cost of care. Gimmick BS policy is what we have here in Massachusetts, and hows that working out for us? My premiums went up AGAIN this year. I'm so tired of the BS. Bankruptcy is the only option.


    I just bought my parents a TV for Christmas, with my own hard earned cash, and I see that I have to pay the wonderful state of Crapachusetts, $42.75 in order to do so. Go **** yourself you losers! :mad:
  4. PatsFanInMaine

    PatsFanInMaine Rookie

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    We will know who benefits most when the referendum for this is held in just under a year from now. My hunch, the chickens will be coming home to roost for the Democrats.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And how do you propose paying for the roads, bridges, and tunnels that allow the tv to get to the store and you to get to the store?
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Given that the polls show this bill (such as it is, as no-one has actually seen the final version) is about 60-40 against by the voters, it's pretty much a given that it's bad for Democrats. Unless the people really are stupid and say they're against something only to change their minds when it's passed by Congress. But if you're against it yesterday you should be against it tomorrow and next week also.
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmmmm....does NH have roads, bridges, and tunnels that allow the tv to get to the store, and people to get to the store?

    :rolleyes:
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    States raise money in different ways. New Hampshire ranks #2 in terms of property taxes.

    Property tax levels by state; buying and owning a home - MSN Money

    Also, MA is generally considered the superior state in terms of education, culture (museums, etc.), and hospitals, all of which get state support. Maybe that's not important to you; in which case you might be happier in a state like New Hampshire.
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    You really do have no clue do you? I sometimes wonder you're simply FOS and you know it, or if you're truly being sincere. NH has no sales tax, and no state income tax. Also, they have the 4th rated education system in the country. So, about those roads again...:rolleyes:
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why in the world do you live in MA? Why not pack up and move your business to New Hampshire? Sure, it has fewer people, less money, less public transportation, fewer top flight hospitals, fewer museums and cultural institutions, but it's a money-grubbers paradise. MA taxes are by no means the highest, and we get a lot of benefits for it. I like the benefits of living in a state with great universities, hospitals, and museums, a state that has very good roads and services, a state that is very diverse, and a state that pays high wages.

    BBER-UNM: All States Average Wage and Salary per Job

    I think the standard of living is higher in MA than NH, and this chart shows the average wage here is nearly $13k higher than in NH.

    Out of curiosity, do you think everything is free? Are you unaware of the role taxes play in utilities, airwaves, roads, water, education, etc.? NH finds ways to get it's money -- it taxes dividends and interest, property, hotels and meals, but overall taxes are lower there because it's a dull rural state with rundown cities. But, some people like that.
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Fewer museums...:rolleyes:
  12. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    His argument lost all credibility when he used the phrases "money grubbers", "dull" and "run down cities" :rolleyes:
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Anyone who moves to New Hampshire because of all the extra cash they'll have is money grubbing. Of course, there are other reasons to move there, but RW is making it clear that he's not interested in anything MA has to offer. If you want to save a few tax dollars, move to NH for the low taxes and work in MA for the high salaries. RW apparently doesn't value museums, but that's his loss, IMHO. Museums expand neural activity, which I would think would be helpful to people who fear change and cling to the past, like conservatives do. (It's difficult to be a conservative with new ideas, since conservative ideas tend to be rooted in the imaginary good old days.)
  14. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Forget it Patters, it's a lockstep one-note bleating herd of revanchists who think "free thinking" means a race to reject any form of progress. The racism, sexism, and homophobia fostered on this board have pretty much banished the most progressive elements here. You know this. So there ya go, an outpost of the echo-chamber world where progress is only desired by "sheeple" and free-thinkers bleat endlessly that things were better before and their taxes are too high :rolleyes:

    Hell we're all smack in the middle of a brutal snowstorm and I still only drifted only here because I was sick of looking at my offensive AI on a game I only picked up because you can dispense of these arguments on the merits in about 20 seconds, after which it's all a bunch of ad-hom childish nonsense.

    To answer the question, it'll be a tough sell to tell the millions of newly insured that they didn't really need insurance in the first place. It'll be equally tough to tell the guy who currently is an indentured servant, but can now migrate to different insurance even though he's sick, that his emancipation is bad because taxes might go up in some vague way, when he knows for certain he flat-out could not change jobs w/o a $1000 a month insurance hike -- or the possibility of paying everything out of pocket INSTEAD of insurance, if he could even do so.

    On the flip side, in retrospect it may have been better to play hardball from day 1, lock the Republicans out, and tell the Dems they'd have to leave the party (and its money) next election if they didn't get in line. That would get you your 50, and they could have built it piece by piece in reconciliation, like Bush did with pretty much everything. Majority rule, after all. Without the long drawn-out process of irrational screaming, highlighted by this summer's spectacle, we may have moved on with a robust public option by now, and the echo-chamber would have some other talking point. Either way they'll call the result socialism (or fascism), claim they're fiscal conservatives, and paint Bush's deficits as Obama's.

    Screw it, may as well have gone whole hog.

    PFnV
  15. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    No one... Actual amounts of unisured are likely to increase not decrease, people will choose the penalty as a cheaper alternative to buying the coverage. I got one insurance companies, they score big with health care. If they lower the age to qualify for Medicair to 55 insurance companies will be thrilled to lose most of their clients prior to going chronic. Way to go Democrats you are true representitives of the special interest.
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nothing left now but to be patient, sit back and wait, 2010/2012 the Democrats will pay dearly, the people are quick to forget and forgive on many things but they won't forget this one and the way our new president is falling in the polls and his arrogant continuance of "Bushism" he too will go down with the rest of them.

    The "Change We Can Believe In" never happened did it, what did happen seems to become clearer each day, things are getting worse, even worse than The Hated Bush.

    Obama/This Congress
    Back room cigar chomping dirty politics at it's finest and the people know it.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The dems will win in the long run, even when they take a hit in the short term. They will wreck the private health care system and move us to a single payer system. Everyone in the country ill become a ward of the government hence the party of big government wins, the people lose...their freedom.
  18. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    People will be taxed on this bill for the next four years to pay for it. Then the benefits will occur. That's right we need to do something immediately for health care or it will kill our economy......Newsflash idiots we don't recieve benefits from the new plan until 2014..... That's right we are all gonna pay for it and then wait for it's benefits to take place in 2014, nice!
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Which is why the CBO score is silly even though the concept is a good idea.

    There's no way they'll actually make the Medicare cuts either. That's just sitting there for CBO scoring to make this look good. That'll get overturned and they'll raise taxes to make up that supposed $500B. Medicare is going bankrupt already, they can't cut half a trillion out of it especially with the boomers close to moving onto Medicare. Anyone who believe Medicare will be cut is dreaming.
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do you think that the people of England, Canada, and France have lost their freedom? In at least France, you can go to exclusive private doctors and hospitals if you choose, but most people would rather spend their money elsewhere. Single payer to the best of my knowledge does not exclude the right of the wealthy, health obsessed, and hypochondriacs to seek healthcare from specialists outside the system.

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