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Poison pill?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DW Toys, Apr 28, 2011.

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  1. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    What if the NFL owners are good actors? What if they got Judge "Dumb Ass" Nelson to do their bidding for them?

    Obviously a win on the lock out situation would have been the goal but, now Nelson has set the stage for the Owners to "Start up League year business" without any formal direction. Bingo....I see Bingo!

    O.K. Mo the little Pimp won a round or two here but he basically screwed the NFL players in his infinite wisdom and political power grab.
    FACT:
    There is no more CBA

    There is no Union to interceded for players demands

    In essence each player must sign a W9:
    The person who gives Form W-9 to the partnership for purposes of
    establishing its U.S. status and avoiding withholding on its allocable
    share of net income from the partnership conducting a trade or business
    in the United States is in the following cases:
    • The U.S. owner of a disregarded entity and not the entity,
    • The U.S. grantor or other owner of a grantor trust and not the trust,
    and
    • The U.S. trust (other than a grantor trust) and not the beneficiaries of
    the trust.


    The Players automatically become their own business and entity.

    They are outside labor and not entitled to insurance nor can it be negotiated by the "Union" as it was decertified.

    Judge "SA" has created a fire storm!!!

    She told the Owners to make up rules to begin business for the year.
    Some most sought after items the Players want gone are "Franchising" of a player, Shorter contract terms, The elimination of the Draft as we know it so the players can pick where they want to play and certainly not longer seasons. You might not want to get those by sacrificing what is below.

    The Owners go nuclear. Well Judge SA has not ordered the Owners to make the rules and it could go this way and these would not tamper with the Anti Trust issues. It would also put more money back in each owners investment that the NFLPA tried to stop:

    1_ Immediately the season goes to 18 Games this year

    2_The new League installed CAP is back down to $80m from $120m

    a) This prevents richest Teams from buying up the best players

    b) This absolutely hurts the "What used to be, Union" because they lose 25% of the NFL Player force who will be jobless, go the the UFL or CFL. It causes massive internal destruction of the NFLPA as with no new CBA or Union, each player in on his own.

    c) The elite Players will be required to play Special Teams or multiple positions.

    3_ Team rosters will not exceed 40 players.

    a) Again...see above. The smaller market Teams or lesser financially resourced ones can put their best 40 Players out as equals.

    b) All the players that come out of college and that can no longer be fairly Drafted, can't pick just one Team like say the Cowboys or Packers because each Team only holds a 40 man roster. Or they can play for less to fit the CAP of said Team they want to forfeit Salary.

    4_Off Season Practice will be limited to 30 Days prior to the Season so added personnel can be limited to save Team resources.

    5_One Drug Test per week required and any player in violation an automatic one year suspension with no pay as per new "League rules" HA HA!

    a) This can also include even a parking ticket

    6_As new private contractors, each player will be required to sign an NDA (non compete agreement)

    a)Any player getting a endorsement or personal service contract, if the name NFL is mentioned, their Team is mentioned or anything professional football, would be required to give a stipulated amount of financial return from said endorsement back to the Team and the NFL or be sued by said Team or the NFL.

    7_ As private contractors, they would have to buy their own insurance for themselves and their families.

    a) As private contractors they must sign releases with their contracted Teams to hold harmless against said Team any injury or health related issue.

    8_ As Private contractors, they could be responsible for their own transportation,lodging and food "We play Cleveland this Sunday at 1:00....Be there or do not get paid!" Or they can buy tickets on the Team plane.

    9_All profit sharing with the players as a group is obviously null and void as they are each their own entity.

    10_Year end Free Agents can only be added after each Teams Bye Week that following Season

    At the end of the day Judge SA, was she duped by the owners? Did they say, "If we get stiffed on the lockout, let's see if we can get a numbskull judge to force us to open our doors a ...get this....create NEW rules?" Could that have been the clever fallback?

    The reduction of 25% of the payroll creates about $1.2b in added revenue back to the NFL. Thanks little Pimp man! Thanks Numbskull Judge! Then the League gains a few sheckles by eliminating the perks and gaining two more schedule season games.

    Now to get through to some of the media and others who seem uninformed or live in an information vaccum. BB would be advised NOT to trade up to 2012. That would be crazy!

    Bill ....Cash out your chips!!!!

    Belichick called this year's crop of defensive linemen one of the best in any draft ever. "There is a lot of depth at the top of the draft," said Belichick. "Some good defensive front seven players [and] on the defensive front, probably more [depth] than in any draft I can remember."

    DW Toys
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  2. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Some of what you suggest could come to pass, but this would be beyond stupid.

    The reason for the "53 on the roster, 45 on game day" is because of that little thing called injuries. You would be courting disaster to try to play the current game with 40-man rosters.
  3. lamafist

    lamafist Rookie

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    Yeah, because, when you're in the middle of an antitrust lawsuit, the best thing for the NFL to do is pile on antitrust violations on top of antitrust violations, all of which would be tacked onto the current suit, and promptly enjoined by Judge Nelson, just like the lockout.

    And since all damages involving a willful violation of antitrust law are treble, the NFLPA would have to be reformed not as a union or trade association, but as a holding company for when the owners have to put the NFL in hock to the players.
  4. patsfanboy

    patsfanboy Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    If i was one of the owner i would suggest to use the old CBA, but implement the rookie wage scale plus i would dilute their share around 30 to 20% maybe more. That would make the NFLPA reform kind of faster than people anticipate.
  5. Tyler.Durden

    Tyler.Durden Rookie

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    Contracts no longer than 1 years deals and all players are rfa at the end of each season.
  6. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Some of your ideas wouldn't survive anti-trust scrutiny (salary and free agency restrictions) but you are correct on several others:

    1) Schedule - The NFL can increase or decrease the regular season as they see fit as long as the players get 20 checks (or whatever their contracts stipulate).

    2) Drug testing - HGH blood tests are now on the table and the players risk their employment if they refuse.

    3) Benefits - Outside of anything explicitly specified in their contracts, they are entitled to nothing.

    I don't anticipate the owners taking advantage of these points since it would effectively be a barrier in future negotiations.

    You are pointing out the insanity of the players actions. They are pursuing a legal remedy where the NFL is just 32 individual companies and the players are just 1700 independent contractors. But they don't want that. They just want the threat of it as a negotiation tool to get more money. But at the end of the day, the court system can't mandate the owners pay more, less or the same for player salaries.

    At some point, the players have to get the owners to agree to a revenue percentage. Pissing them off and forcing them to spend millions in legal fees seems like a misguided approach.
  7. Tyler.Durden

    Tyler.Durden Rookie

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    Or they could play out the season without a cba with conservative spending and see who blinks first???
  8. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Superb post!!!
    DW Toys
  9. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    well said. You can sue for damages but not for a raise.
  10. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    I attempted to make sure none of my scenarios were of anti-trust liability.
    What changes everything is that now each player is an individual contractor. The decertification is raising it's ugly head from the grave and going ....oops! Secondly, with the expiration of the old CBA, the NFL has the right, and the letter of the law to form new "rules", and the bimbo just did not anticipate that she might have been duped. The NFL lawyers (both sides) are smart. They knew this liberal Judge think could happen (more billable hours!!Yea!). They could have set this trap on purpose. The NFLPA did not want to negotiate because they feel they had won the whole pie already and Lil'Mo the Pimpster, was counting the votes for his new political win.

    So if the NFLPA won't negotiate, then Judge Dumbass set this all spinning for the League and Owners. The owners and lawyers were crying alligator tears....."shucks, darn, heck, we're doomed". But I think, Not so fast NFLPA. This is all conjecture and theory but none the less I can't believe the NFL did not have plan "A", "B", "C" etc. already in the pipeline.

    What the players are counting on is that the NFL Owners will just roll over dead now. Well "she" can open the doors but the NFL can set the rules as per her ruling. I am sorry but if anyone on this site buys into the fact that there won't be bad blood between the Owners and Players from this time forward, you would just be wrong then, wouldn't you.

    I think Judge Nelson set a trap for the Players that she didn't even realize.
    With all the body punches to the NFLPA that the League can now under the protection of the law, write in with new nonnegotiable rules due to the lack of a Union without anti-trust language or precedents, the goal would be the Players say...."Ah, O.K. lets sit down again. I thought victory was sweet but there is an aftertaste."

    These Lawyers are way to smart to set up just one final shot. Was the Judge setting up a poison pill?

    As someone pointed out, the only thing the players won was that the Owners had to "Open the Doors and prepare to do business for the 2011 season." Not how and when and what the old CBA accomplished for the players is now cast aside and we start all over again. How smart was that in retrospect?
    DW Toys
  11. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Excellent!
    I think the NFL Lawyers anticipated this, and the good Judge Nelson just handed them a shovel to wack over the head of the NFLPA without the thought of consequence.

    People don't understand they thought this strife was all over. If there is no new CBA the players do NOT get a share. This is all about the validity of a lockout in an attempt for the League to have the players come back to the Table that Lil'Mo the Pimpster had already decided day one, not to.

    As the players are now all individual private contractors, and the Judge has so ordered the NFL to make new rules for the 2011 Season and begin, she did NOT protect the Players by adding language like "use last years rules" etc. It appears to be a very smart play by the Owners helped inadvertently by a liberal Judge. The Owners and their Lawyers are walking around with the 'woe is me " look in their eyes and laughing their asses off inside.

    It's all just foreplay to get the NFLPA to sit down again. Now...guess what...the Players better do it. Adding games, cutting roster sizes by 25%, reducing the CAP and no set percentage of profit share anywhere on the table right now, are not anti-trust violations. The Players have no voice or right to strike against those items as they no longer have a Union and are all outside contractors. As the League has stated, their profit structure was affected by the last CBA and they have a right to opt out.

    Did this just fall into the Owners lap? Thank you Judge Nelson!
    DW Toys
  12. aabtec

    aabtec Rookie

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    Yes and when the TV ratings crash through the floor and sponsors don't by advertising becuase the product stinks then the owners win?

    Hey, lets go back to replacement players then? No football player is going to risk his life for that scenario. But wait. What happens when the Public gets tciked off and starts lighting up the phones of their Senators and Reps. Do you really think these guys will be in the owners back pocket? Can you say bye bye anti-trust exemption?

    Someone had too much coffee today.
  13. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Problem is that would be illegal.

    The owners gave a lot if rules they have to obey which they won't line, but they could also use this as an opportunity. An 18 game schedule comes to mind.
  14. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Lot's of petty vindictiveness to the players here. You know the guys we pay to watch and used to root for.
  15. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    Exactly. I know you're not really taking sides in this, but I find it truly amazing that some the "fans" that are strongly taking the NFL's side in this are also the ones who are screaming about it being all about liberals vs. conservatives, judges' politics, etc.

    In her rulings, Nelson has highlighted the "public interst" (read "fan interest") as being one of the most important factors she's considered in reaching her decisions. How this is concept is lost on some NFL fans is beyond me.
  16. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Nah.... on the coffee cousin. This is all attended to have the Players sit down again. Nothing personal, just business.
    DW Toys
  17. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Cousin, Do you think the Players, Owners or Judge Nelson actually give two craps about the fans? You are naive to think so.
    DW Toys
  18. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How many lawyers are there posting on this thread?
  19. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    Well, yes, I do--all of them. To think otherwise you would have to be even more cynical than I am, which would be hard to do.

    Ironically, it seems like Judge Nelson (who by all rights should be the most dispassionate player in all this) is showing more sympathy to the fans of the game than either the owners or players.
  20. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    Right on the money JMarr. You might not agree with her ruling, but from everything I have read, her decision is well thought out and written.

    While I have to admit that the frustrated fan in me has thought of several of Toys responses to the ruling as good ideas, I take offense to his bullying right wing ideological framing of everyone who disagrees with his narrow point of view as being a "liberal" or an idiot.

    As someone firmly in the owners camp (more or less), but often considered liberal in SOME of my political views, that kind of rhetoric is not only divisive, but counterproductive to ever finding common ground. But when you are a "bully" finding common ground is not a viable option or strategy. Name calling and labeling takes precedence, and thus many of Toys' valid points get lost in the needless demagoguery (thank god for spell check on THAT word. ;) )

    And with that bit of self righteous pontification, I leave this tread to enjoy the draft for the rest of the day.
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