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Pledge of Allegiance - History to Today

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IcyPatriot, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'll try to make it brief which kind of leaves stuff out but it's easily researched.

    1892 version by Francis Bellamy:

    [FONT=arial, helvetica]"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."[/FONT]


    [FONT=arial, helvetica]By 1924 The National Flag Conference / American Legion changed
    "My flag" to "The Flag of the United States of America.[/FONT]

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


    1953 to 1954 at the urging of Eisenhower public opinion grew and Sen. Homer Ferguson sponsored a bill to add God to the pledge ... it passed in June 1954.

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

    June 26 2002 states won in declaring the pledge unconstituional based on the "Under God" term they were [FONT=arial, helvetica]AK, AZ, CA, HI, ID, MT, NV, OR and WA.

    SCOTUS later overturned the decision which stands to this day. (Edit: they threw it out)

    It is also noteworthy that the 'Under God' was motivated to differentiate between communism and western capitalistic democracies.

    Which is what motivated me to make this post ...

    think about that today - God / Capitalistic.

    Back then they apparently seemed to go together - now - there is no connection is there?

    God was a capitalist? Jesus was a capitalist? Mary? Joseph? Moses? Abraham" Isaac?

    Who :confused2:


    Opinions?





    [/FONT]
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2010
  2. PatsFanInVa

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    Jesus saves. Moses invests.

    But seriously... good post, good research.

    I'll play devil's advocate, and point out that it was not necessarily the capitalism that motivated the insertion of God, so much as the identification of the West with God, in the mind of Americans.

    Since Lenin's implementation of Marxist scientific socialism involved eradication of religion, it is rational to think that the identification of God with the West would make sense to those who inserted the phrase.

    It counterposes the God-worshipping West against the specifically Atheistic Commie world, and as such, is a rallying-cry for the 1950s.

    The difficulty, of course, is that while all good Communists were atheists, all atheists are not Communists.

    Many atheists are -- God forbid -- Americans: patriotic, tax-paying, sometimes armed-service-joining Americans.

    The simple-mindedness of McCarthyism has no place in 2010 America.

    America is not the place where God rules: it is the place where the individual has the right to choose whether God rules his or her individual life.

    There are plenty of theocracies to choose from. If you want "one nation/under God," move to Saudi.

    The U.S. is one nation, where you are free to worship as you choose, and free not to worship at all -- as regards religion, that is what defines the United States of America.

    You may argue that enforced and vague monotheism is better than atheism (though there is no way to say you are right or wrong.)

    But those aren't the choices. There is a third way, which is supposed to be the American way: freedom of religion.

    The insertion of the phrase is an insult to Jefferson, Madison, and all those who believed in religious liberty among the founders -- not to mention an insult against all who believe that religion is a private, not a state, matter.

    PFnV
     
  3. DarrylS

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    I always find it compelling in this day and age about reverting back to the basic values or our country, and this invariably means reverting to some type of nation with heavy christian overtones..

    We have discussed that our forefathers were deists, and how they favored the separation of church and state..

    The most telling fact is that in our great constitution that god is mentioned only once, under the boilerplate.. "One nation under god".. that is all. Does not say christian god, jewish god, muslim god or tree god.. very non specific. "God is god", Joan Baez.

    The reality is that "under god" can apply to just about any religion and just about any country...

    Prior to inclusion by Dwight D. it was heavily promoted by the Knights of Columbus..

    Not sure the Supreme Court actually gave a ruling in this case, in the Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow case it was more about whether or not the person who brought the case had standing, he did not .. there was some discussion but no real ruling.. as best can tell there has been no SCOTUS ruling on this issue..

    Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, U.S. Supreme Court Case Summary & Oral Argument
     
  4. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I think religion is going to be a huge political topic as we hit the years 2011 - 2020. It will be an interesting debate for sure ... and yes ... though a Catholic i agree it is a huge insult to the founding fathers. Christians in a way get to dominate the political world and this is obvious to foreign countries. We can't deny it, we can't hide it ... it's there.
    I find it amazing how afraid we were of commies - seems almost funny now.
     
  5. PatsFanInVa

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    Came out of college in the 80s, and it was already funny then... the progressives were all about getting over it. The conservatives were all about the peril and danger we were all in.

    The commies collapsed, the conservatives took credit, but about 10 minutes later nobody cared either way....

    Now the cold war is like a re-run at 3 in the morning. Oh the nukes are still there, even though the Russian flag isn't red anymore. And they opened up the nuclear football years after the old USSR broke up when we launched some atmospheric observation project over Norway, and we almost all died. But they aren't Godless, so it wouldn't have been so bad.

    Weirdly enough, commies that loan us money are okay. China isn't a festering morass of evil God-hating wrongness, because heck, "that landlord guy is okay... he just believes differently from us..."
     
  6. PatsFanInVa

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    God isn't in the constitution, neither is "one nation under God."

    Neither is "the Creator", as in "endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights" (from the Declaration of Independence)

    The closest thing to "God" is in the signatory section where they use the formula "in the year of our Lord..."
     
  7. DarrylS

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    I got it wrong, you are right about "in the year of our lord"... how can it be then that any mention of reverting back to christian values of our forefathers has to do with heavy religious overtones?????
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  8. DarrylS

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    Trying to remember the overall themes of those days, as was in catholic grade school at the time(god bless the sadistic nuns), seem to recollect that it was less about atheism/godlessness or the Commies.. and more about flat out fear of invasion & nuking our country.. perhaps they mentioned the atheisim part, but remember more succinctly just being afraid of getting killed. Growing up in Newport,RI and having a huge navy base, we were always told that we were a "prime" target for the commies... and when it came we would be hit on the first wave of missiles..

    Another factor not mentioned yet we had just come out of fighting the Korean Conflict, which had to do with the Chinese Commies...

    Paranoia ran deep, nothing quite like in the middle of the day doing disaster drills and hiding under your desk.. or everytime you had to use the facilities(bathrooms were always in the basement) there were the prerequisite yellow and green signs indicating it was fallout shelter along with the barrels of water... was scared shytless most of the time.
     
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    100 years from today most all the world will be worshipping ALLAH.
     
  10. PatsFanInVa

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    As is so often the case, Harry, you're wrong again -- but more importantly, it will not matter.

    I have been happily worshipping an unpopular God for a number of decades now, as have my co-religionists. I could understand Catholics being upset in their "war for souls" with Muslims, or mainline protestants who think Catholics are Christians, just a different kind of Christian.

    But have you noticed the ones doing head-counts of Religion A vs. Religion B are the very ones who insist that 90% of the people "in religion A" aren't even in Religion A the moment the subject changes from Islam to what a "good Christian does/believes"?

    Who cares whether the dangerous theocratic mob is Christian or Muslim, so long as the secular nature of our Republic is maintained? It protects us from all fanatics, regardless of their rallying cry.

    PFnV
     
  11. IcyPatriot

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    #24 Jersey


    i did the nuns also ... hated it but I guess they were saving me or something due to where I grew up. In any case ... yeah ... the nuns pounded it in your head that we could be killed. My school was a brick structure and had all those signs also. As we got older we were brainwashed that Nixon was our savior because the commies were scared crap of him.
     
  12. DarrylS

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    As a generation older than you, I learned the Nixon was lower than whale shyt... he was the epitome of a scumbag politician..
     
  13. PatsFanInVa

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    For me, the Korean War was "M*A*S*H," and Vietnam was during my youth and all over in time for my bar mitzvah.

    We didn't "duck and cover" anymore, but all the teachers were convinced that the Commies were the antichrist and it was a big mistake to get all detente-y with them. The scare stories were mainly out of the news. But it was still a time of two eternal blocs that would always oppose each other, and it was only the wacky academics that thought anything else might ever be the case. After all, how could either Superpower ever "lose"?

    Here we are now in a multi-polar world - how different, even, from the unchallenged American hegemony of the 90s. We're at the point where what we want to make sure of is that we're one of the countries that matter.
     
  14. IcyPatriot

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    #24 Jersey

    This could be the line of the year in the PoFo :camera:
     
  15. PatsFanInVa

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    I can still remember when you could say "The problem with Communism is there's no money in it."

    I guess that was Communism 1.0.
     

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