Welcome to PatsFans.com

Playmakers where art thou?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsfanTN, Sep 21, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. PatsfanTN

    PatsfanTN On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +43 / 0 / -6

    Seriously though,
    After watching all last season and 2 games into this season, I think we have finally run the well of doing more with less dry. It seems (at least to me), that we no longer have playmakers on the defensive side of the ball.

    Positives
    1. Middle of the D line, still pretty solid imo

    Negatives
    1. Loss of Mayo is huge, and to be honest much bigger than I had originally thought
    2. Rest of the linebackers and Secondary, average AT BEST.

    The problem is, when our Offense was clicking (and I have absolute faith it will again) we had a defense that would "Bend not break", when the Offense wasnt we had Playmakers on the Defensive side that would pick it up (Samuels, Seymour, Harrison,..etc). We no longer have "those" (as in type) of guys. We have cant continue to rely on a High powered offense with an average or below average defense and expect to compete.
    Passing on some Defensive players in the draft is looking rougher and rougher.
    First half D looked good yesterday, but gave up 3rd downs too often in the 2nd half.

    Want to buy a pass rush...but hey, at least the Titans fans here cant give me crap today...:)

    Go pats!
     
  2. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    I guess what bugged me, was the lack of trying to bring pressure. There was a couple of Sanchez plays that we lined up five, but then dropped two of em, and rushed only 3. Why not blitz the hell of out him? He's a rookie, and we let him have plenty of time back there. I kept waiting for the blitz that would lead to a Merriweather INT, and it just never happened. Maybe i missed something? Maybe there was a reason we didnt try to blitz his head off.

    Atleast we know we can stop the run :eek:

    and you're right, it will be a peaceful week here with the Titan fans :D
     
  3. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,447
    Likes Received:
    631
    Ratings:
    +1,711 / 12 / -15

    #75 Jersey

    We haven't seen a pressure/blitzing D here since Crennel left and Pees took over.

    Pees is the reason for the "stay back on the heels" strategy for 5 years running now.
     
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,566
    Likes Received:
    625
    Ratings:
    +1,778 / 5 / -6

    Seems to me we haven't won a superbowl since Crennel left and Pees took over for the defense, either.

    As Rod Laver used to say, "never change a winning game, always change a losing game". That defensive approach ain't getting us there.
     
  5. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    yes, thats true. Which brings us to the question of ,WHY does Bill continue to let Pees do this? Probably because this is how he wants it to be, even though I hate it! :mad: :D

    I need to go buy some more kool-aid. The fridge is empty :(
     
  6. parthasas

    parthasas Patriots Nation PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +26 / 1 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Very true, I have not seen us bringing in the house and blitz the crap out of QB. Every other team is doing it but we don't regularly blitz in key situations. The reason beats me though !::eek:
     
  7. PatsfanTN

    PatsfanTN On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +43 / 0 / -6

    Ahhh man do I miss the gritty, tough, and knock the other teams QB into the dirt.

    Member the days of giving Peyton "Happy Feet"?.....I miss Rodney Harrison../tears
     
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,739
    Likes Received:
    235
    Ratings:
    +587 / 14 / -14

    #24 Jersey

    But we were one Samuel catch away from going 19-0. That's a lame statement and you're better than that.

    I'd be curious how Crennel would do with this team. Last we saw Romeo in NE he had the likes of Law (admittedly hurt for the playoffs), Samuel, Harrison, Bruschi, McGinnest, Vrabel all in their prime.
     
  9. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    16,972
    Likes Received:
    509
    Ratings:
    +1,596 / 9 / -19

    #61 Jersey

    Yup, it's more personnel than scheme. Regardless, the defense played well enough to win yesterday on the road. I attribute this loss to:

    (1). Brady being off-target to open receivers on too many throws (23 for 47 = Jamarcus Russell numbers).

    (2). Eleven penalties.

    (3). Mediocre to poor special teams play.
     
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,739
    Likes Received:
    235
    Ratings:
    +587 / 14 / -14

    #24 Jersey

    The defense was good enough - they scare the hell out of me for this week against an actual good offense although Buffalo's offense looked good against TB. With no Mayo we have serious issues, I though we could outscore those issues but now I'm not so sure.
     
  11. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,566
    Likes Received:
    625
    Ratings:
    +1,778 / 5 / -6

    Sorry to be "lame".

    Obviously, personnel is a big part of it. But so is scheme, and so is anticipating personnel turnover and restocking appropriately. With that in mind, let's look at the changes since the 2004 SB:

    1. DL. Up to the Seymour trade, no major changes in the starting unit of Seymour-Wilfork-Warren that would mandate a change in scheme. Still adjusting to the Seymour trade. Hasn't yet used talented rookie DLs much in the regular season, after they looked very good in preseason.

    Upshot: No reason from a DL point of view that this defense should be less aggressive and attacking than the 2003-2004 vintage. Additions of Brace and Pryor are promising, if the DC is willing to use them.

    2. LBs. I'm not sure I'd say McGinnest was "in his prime" in 2003-2004, but he did play well. The need to replace a 35 year old elephant should have been anticipated. Bruschi's stroke and Ted Johnson's retirement clearly caught the FO by surprise and cost us in 2005-2006, but we were very slow to draft replacements and went with some fairly lame substitutes (Brown and Beisel in 2005; Victor Hobson as a FA in 2008) which calls into question the FO's judgment in this area. Continued to ignore the need for a pass-rushing OLB until the Derrick Burgess trade, which is too early to be evaluated. Went out and got Adalius Thomas, but hasn't used him as aggressively (or successfully) as Baltimore did. Drafted Jerod Mayo who is a stud and who should be the centerpiece of the defense for years to come, got lucky by geting Gary Guyton in FA. Has a bunch of JAGs hanging around, and the drafting of Crable has been unproductive so far.

    Upshot: There was clearly a falloff in LB talent form 2005-2007 which may have impacted the defensive scheme, but the FO was slow to address it and early steps were woefully ineffective. We now have a fair amount of talent (Mayo, Thomas, Burgess, Guyton) but a lack of depth at the position. We don't seem to be using some of our LBs as aggressively as they have been used with other teams.

    3. Secondary. Ty Law was a fabulous CB in 2003-2004, but he was also an aging CB who wanted way too much money. Samuel was a nice replacement in 2004-2007, but also wanted too much money. Rodney Harrison was a warrior, but was injury prone and slowing significantly after 2004. Clearly personnel changes and attrition may have affected the ability to run an attacking defense, most notably in 2008 when our secondary play was abysmal and we ran a "soft zone" with horrible red zone and 3rd down defense. But the FO was slow to address this area until the past offseason, when they overhauled the unit, with what looks like good results after 2 games. Meriweather is developing nice, Darius Butler looks like he will be a terrific starter for us, and Leigh Bodden has been solid. Currently we have what is probably our best unit since 2003-2004, with the potential of becoming much better.

    Upshot: Certainly the secondary has gone throw personnel turnover growing pains, and at times has probably limited our defensive schemes. But our coverage unit is quite good right now, and should allow us to be much more aggressive and attacking than we are.

    One Samuel catch form 19-0 or not, I feel that our change in defensive philosophy since 2003-2004 has been a significant factor in limiting our success. No one fears our defense anymore, even though we have plenty of talent on D, because we play much too soft and much too passively. I think that this is as much attributable to the defensive coaching staff as to the defensive personnel.
     
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,739
    Likes Received:
    235
    Ratings:
    +587 / 14 / -14

    #24 Jersey

    To be clear, I just meant your "we haven't won the SB since Romeo left" was lame, nothing else. I'm not a big fan of the softish coverage, nor of the lack of blitzing now that we have more talent in the secondary nor of the lack of LB brought in to replace the aging ones.
     
  13. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +3 / 1 / -2

    I agree 100%, Pees and this sit back read and react scheme is getting old and has cost us more games. I go back to the Favre to Keller 3rd and 15 play last year, a perfect spot for a blitz, he sits back in that stupid soft zone and allows a critical game saving 1st down for the Jets. Pees has to go. We need an aggressive defensive coordinator with an attacking scheme, we have the personnel to attack, we choose not too, it has to change. Our defense is making mediocre QB's look like world beaters.
     
  14. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    16,972
    Likes Received:
    509
    Ratings:
    +1,596 / 9 / -19

    #61 Jersey

    Isn't BB's expertise the defensive side of the ball? It's BB's philosophy that Pees implements. I think whatever approach/style you see on the field is tailored to the capabilities of personnel, not whether the defensive coordinator happens to favor "aggressive" or "read and react."
     
  15. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +3 / 1 / -2

    What difference does it make if Pees is implementing BB's philosophy, BB and Romeo used to attack, we used to see consistent corner blitzes mixed in with safety blitzes and periodic LB blitzes, we don't see any of that anymore. This defense gives up more 3rd and longs than you can shake a stick at.

    Since Dean Pees came aboard, we have to lead the lead in giving up 3rd and longs. It's the sit-back read and react scheme, it's making medicore QB's look like HOFamers. It is flat out not working. Look at the Jets and how aggresive they are and what that did for them. We have to do the same damn thing.
     
  16. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    16,972
    Likes Received:
    509
    Ratings:
    +1,596 / 9 / -19

    #61 Jersey

    Because BB is the head coach and he brings in coordinators who run things the way he wants them to. Your gripe is with BB, not Pees.
     
  17. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +3 / 1 / -2

    Ofcourse my gripe is with BB, I think we have to start looking at alot of BB related issues, the damn defensive scheme, the drafts, the personnel moves, the Deltha O'Neal signings, passing on Rey Maualuga and drafting a Patrick Chung to hold a clip board while Rey is making an immediate impact in the Bengal defense. There's alot of BB stuff to discuss, why should he get a free pass?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
  18. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    17,506
    Likes Received:
    70
    Ratings:
    +226 / 6 / -2

    #91 Jersey

    Maybe we should trade for rey maualuga. :D
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>