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Players not caving on 18-game schedule, major reason for potential lockout


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I guess I need to listen to a guy with 38 posts.
Chances are you even went to a preseason game this year.
You probably bought them from a scalper at twice the
face value.

A true fan !
 
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I guess I need to listen to a guy with 38 posts.
Chances are you even went to a preseason game this year.
You probably bought them from a scalper at twice the
face value.

A true fan !

I'm a noob.. But not to the fandom.
I'm old school... like Schaefer stadium old school.

Alas, I now find myself living in the glorious Northwest of British Columbia - so no tix for me.
 
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Most aren't millionares.
Most have 3 seasons of relative obscurity, at best.

And as much as the hype machine may be "driven" by the NFL, make NO MISTAKE, that it's the effort by the players that puts meat on that bone.

I think the owners should make a return of no more than 7% - and everything else should be divied up by the WORKERS.[/QUOTE]

Karl Marx?
 
Most aren't millionares.
Most have 3 seasons of relative obscurity, at best.

And as much as the hype machine may be "driven" by the NFL, make NO MISTAKE, that it's the effort by the players that puts meat on that bone.

I think the owners should make a return of no more than 7% - and everything else should be divied up by the WORKERS.
You are joking right? Say it isnt so Comrade.
 
Depends on where are you standing I suppose.

The major concern seems to be wear and tear and injury, here are some other considerations

1) A longer season might mean an injured player has a slightly better chance to come back and contribute to a meaningful game. Rod Woodson blew out his knee early one season and made it back for the Steelers Super Bowl. The fact that the Steelers made it so far in the playoffs gave Woodson the time to get a better ( whether it was worth it for Woodson or his team is another story)

2) If I was the 55th best player on the preseason roster, I don't know how I'd feel. The natural trade off by ownership to the expanded game/injuries issue is expanding the roster i.e. giving the union more jobs. If I was 55, I might have an NFL job versus not. Or if I was Practice Squader No#7, it might be the difference between staying on the team, now that they have increased PS slots versus not.

3) People who make their living off selling merchandise or local restaurants and hotels and such who get a boost from home games would get one more home game a year. That might be the difference between staying afloat or not. Or laying some people off or not. Not everyone profiting off of 18 games is a billionaire or millionaire.

The reality is at some financial hard line, the players would agree to 18 or 20 games a season. If health was a No#1 concern above else, honestly they wouldn't be playing this game. So I think it's a bit of a push to say owners don't care about their players health. Their players are investments. They care enough, or market forces dictate that, to protect players as long as that protection coincides with their interests. Players will sacrifice their health at some trade off point. Players will balloon to 300+ pounds if they play the line. Some take PEDS. Some will play through brutal injury so they won't lose their jobs to a younger player waiting in the wings.

The owners always win. It's not always fair, but it's how it works in pro sports.

Something not discussed is DeMaurice Smith is new and wants to prove himself and make his bones with this CBA fight. He wants his name out there and he wants to validate his position. Until the owners give him some kind of symbolic token/victory that he can take to the players, he will continue to fight. Smith is going to help the players only in so much as it will help himself. Everyone is essentially looking out for themselves first, not just owners but players, coaches, agents, etc.

The players will go to 18 games, the question is what are the trade offs in play to get them there. Everyone has a price on their health in the NFL. Sorry it comes with the job.
 
a rampant anti-semite?

LOL...

No, the other part of his legacy.

The part that America has so forgotten, that it's in danger of losing its middle class, and devolving into a neo-feudal state, like Mexico.

The cream skimmed off by the leisure class must always be less than is needed to foster innovation - usually around 7%.
 
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Thoughtful post Titanium. Welcome to the board.
 
LOL...

No, the other part of his legacy.

The part that America has so forgotten, that it's in danger of losing it's middle class, and devolving into a neo-feudal state, like Mexico.

The cream skimmed off by the leisure class must always be less than is needed to foster innovation - usually around 7%.

I love the way the self appointed assess the precise amount that those who risk their capital shall be rewarded, and no more.
 
I'm not sure which I'd hate more: A lockout or an 18-game season. The former, I guess... but not by much.
 
I love the way the self appointed assess the precise amount that those who risk their capital shall be rewarded, and no more.

I love the way capital seems to think it can move a mountain without the sweat of labor.

Sit on your capital, and watch it waste away without the effort and skill of the commoner.
 
I don't want an 18 game season.

I think there will be an 18 game season however.

Tradeoff's I would like to see:

Larger Roster, regular and PS, (ie more jobs for players)

Flexable injury policy, no hard IR something more like Baseball where a player can get time to heal and then become active.

2 bye weeks during the season.


I heard an interview with Kraft He made a point about a disproportionate number of injuries occurring during camp and preseason, that did seem to fit with what I saw this season.

I like the schedule balance of the 16 game schedule and would hate to lose that. I also think a reason for the 18 game sch is more games overseas. I hate the burden that travel places on a team.

Hopefully there will not be a lockout. We are loaded for next year hopefully this will motivate B Kraft since he is considered an influential owner.
 
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I love the way capital seems to think it can move a mountain without the sweat of labor.

Sit on your capital, and watch it waste away without the effort and skill of the commoner.

Capitalism - It f**king works. It's been working for over 200 years here.

Communism - It sucked for Soviets. It worked for..69 years?


Do the math. I would like to see an 18 game season, but then again I am ok with the current system. I'll be ok with the 18 games until we lose a key component to our team :bricks:
 
For me, it is a package deal: an 18-game season, expanded rosters and expanded Practice Squad. The players' union would be getting more jobs. More money would be added to the revenue pot. To say that the added monies will go the owners is misleading. The players will get both a percentage of the new monies as well as additional jobs.

If the players have chosen to make this a make or break issue, then an 18 game season won't happen. The players will end up with fewer jobs and in the end will need to accept a lower percentage of revenue since they do not want to increase the revenue pot.

The base case is a zero sum game where the players and ownership gains and losses are offset by losses or gains of the other party. To move out of the base case, there must be an increase in revenue. Increase in the number of games is one idea for such an increease.

BTW, if this is the major issue, this is very good news. It means that the players have received adequate information regarding team finances. This was the major sticking point a fdew months ago. In the end, 18 vs. 16 games is a money issue for the owners. The players can win this issue if they want to. They just need to give an equal amount on some other compensation issue.
 
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I'm going to be honest. I think that the players are making more of this than it is.. Now, before some of you go off blazing, lets review some things.

There used to be 6 pre-seasons games. With the 14 game schedule. It was changed to a 4+16 schedule when the league re-aligned before the 1978 season.

Currently, players play in 16 regular season games and about 1.5 pre-season games if you are a vet and as many as 4 pre-season games if you are a rookie or JAG.

Now, from a fan's standpoint, 18 regular season games sounds like a great idea. On the surface. But once you factor in an increased amount of injuries, you have to take a step back. What would you rather have? 4 games in the beginning of the year where you get to see mostly young talent fighting for a roster spot OR a multitude of games later in the season where there is significantly more young talent playing than in the pre-season games. Personally, I think that 4 preaseason games is fine. Especially when the teams scrimmage and practice against one another during the week.

Now, let me also say this. There is no guarantee that more games will equal more injuries. But, in all likelihood, it will. Also, there is no guarantee that an expanded active roster, game day roster, and practice squad will lower the number of injuries.

The reality is that the owners think that eliminating 2 pre-season games and making those games into 2 regular season games, that they'll get more revenue. That is not necessarily the case. They'll only get more revenue if the Sponsors are willing to shell out for it. And there is no guarantee of that. Especially after the last few years of down economy. They also want to reduce the share of the revenue that the players get from the 59.5% of "total revenue". I can understand this because many of these owners have put in tens to hundreds of millions of their own money and would like to see a better return on their investment.

The owners also want a rookie cap. They claim it's so they can give the veterans a larger share of the yearly revenues. I also believe it's to reign in some of the owners like Dan Snyder.

The Players, on the other hand, do not want to change from the 4+16 to the 2+18 format because it would, essentially, mean that there would be fewer games to get the team ready for the regular season and could result in more injuries. The claim that they would have to play in more games rings very hollow with me since the total is still the same. What the players fail to acknowledge is that the owners are willing to expand the rosters and expand the practice squads.. That means that the NFLPA would get BIGGER.

The players also want their retirees to be taken care of. Personally, this should be a UNION issue and not an NFL issue. Let the Union invest in setting up a post-retirement plan. I'm sure that with tens of thousands of potential members, they should be able to get a very good plan for themselves. Probably one that is even better than the people in Government get. However, if the owners are forced to set this up, then this should be seen as an extended benefit and should count towards the amount of money the players get as a whole. It should not be an "in addition to" item.

I can understand the player balking at taking a "pay cut". But they really aren't. From what I have read, the owners do not want to cut the veteran minimum pay scales. They want to cut the amount of money available. I don't believe that a 20% cut is realistic. But I do believe that 5-10% would be more than fair.. In fact, I see no reason why the players should get more than 50% of the total amount. Not when they are not the ones who have put up the initial capital. In fact, I would challenge any one of the players who also have a business of their own as to whether or not they pay out OVER 50% of their revenue in wages and benefits. I bet most of them don't.


Back during 2006, I said that BOTH sides need to realize that they need one another. One can't be successful without the other. The owners would not continue to have the outstanding product without the players. The players would not be so well paid without the owners. That's fact.

The problems that the players face is that there is, in fact, 3 other leagues they can now play in. The CFL, Arena league and the UFL. But, rest assured that NONE of those 3 pay as well as the NFL. But pay is not a consideration when it comes to whether or not there are other avenues of employment in the same field.
 
I love the way capital seems to think it can move a mountain without the sweat of labor.

Sit on your capital, and watch it waste away without the effort and skill of the commoner.

Can we leave the freshman-level political discourse for the politics forum? The adults are talking.
 
You really believe that over the life of the new CBA, that sponsors, TV, cable and fans will be willing to pay the same amount of money for 4 preseason games as for 2 preseason and 2 regular season games? If we are being "honest", then at least let us admit that there would be more revenue with 18 RS games than qwith 16.

With regard to injuries, the underlying assumption is that there are more injuries in a regular season game than in a pre-season game. Has anyone documented this assertion? Or is it really that we believe that preseason injuries will happen to scrubs who don't matter as much?

I'm going to be honest. I think that the players are making more of this than it is.. Now, before some of you go off blazing, lets review some things.

There used to be 6 pre-seasons games. With the 14 game schedule. It was changed to a 4+16 schedule when the league re-aligned before the 1978 season.

Currently, players play in 16 regular season games and about 1.5 pre-season games if you are a vet and as many as 4 pre-season games if you are a rookie or JAG.

Now, from a fan's standpoint, 18 regular season games sounds like a great idea. On the surface. But once you factor in an increased amount of injuries, you have to take a step back. What would you rather have? 4 games in the beginning of the year where you get to see mostly young talent fighting for a roster spot OR a multitude of games later in the season where there is significantly more young talent playing than in the pre-season games. Personally, I think that 4 preaseason games is fine. Especially when the teams scrimmage and practice against one another during the week.

Now, let me also say this. There is no guarantee that more games will equal more injuries. But, in all likelihood, it will. Also, there is no guarantee that an expanded active roster, game day roster, and practice squad will lower the number of injuries.

The reality is that the owners think that eliminating 2 pre-season games and making those games into 2 regular season games, that they'll get more revenue. That is not necessarily the case. They'll only get more revenue if the Sponsors are willing to shell out for it. And there is no guarantee of that. Especially after the last few years of down economy. They also want to reduce the share of the revenue that the players get from the 59.5% of "total revenue". I can understand this because many of these owners have put in tens to hundreds of millions of their own money and would like to see a better return on their investment.

The owners also want a rookie cap. They claim it's so they can give the veterans a larger share of the yearly revenues. I also believe it's to reign in some of the owners like Dan Snyder.

The Players, on the other hand, do not want to change from the 4+16 to the 2+18 format because it would, essentially, mean that there would be fewer games to get the team ready for the regular season and could result in more injuries. The claim that they would have to play in more games rings very hollow with me since the total is still the same. What the players fail to acknowledge is that the owners are willing to expand the rosters and expand the practice squads.. That means that the NFLPA would get BIGGER.

The players also want their retirees to be taken care of. Personally, this should be a UNION issue and not an NFL issue. Let the Union invest in setting up a post-retirement plan. I'm sure that with tens of thousands of potential members, they should be able to get a very good plan for themselves. Probably one that is even better than the people in Government get. However, if the owners are forced to set this up, then this should be seen as an extended benefit and should count towards the amount of money the players get as a whole. It should not be an "in addition to" item.

I can understand the player balking at taking a "pay cut". But they really aren't. From what I have read, the owners do not want to cut the veteran minimum pay scales. They want to cut the amount of money available. I don't believe that a 20% cut is realistic. But I do believe that 5-10% would be more than fair.. In fact, I see no reason why the players should get more than 50% of the total amount. Not when they are not the ones who have put up the initial capital. In fact, I would challenge any one of the players who also have a business of their own as to whether or not they pay out OVER 50% of their revenue in wages and benefits. I bet most of them don't.


Back during 2006, I said that BOTH sides need to realize that they need one another. One can't be successful without the other. The owners would not continue to have the outstanding product without the players. The players would not be so well paid without the owners. That's fact.

The problems that the players face is that there is, in fact, 3 other leagues they can now play in. The CFL, Arena league and the UFL. But, rest assured that NONE of those 3 pay as well as the NFL. But pay is not a consideration when it comes to whether or not there are other avenues of employment in the same field.
 
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