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Piss Christ is a beautiful work of art

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by apple strudel, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Take a crucifix and dip it urine. What does that mean? Well, in this particular image there is a lot to talk about (reasonable people don't have atavistic reactions). There is piss, there is Jesus, there is an ethereal glow. What does it add up to? It adds up to an image of Jesus that has been de-valued, but is still beautiful, and which still retains its power. It is a mournful depiction of an image that has been mis-used. It is a depiction of an idea, not a literal representation of a philosophy.

    Is it possible that this is true? Of course it is. In fact, the photographer and many art critics maintain that this is the case.

    Unfortunately, a lot of people don't understand metaphor. They have no idea how to converse with the language of art. They think literally, simplistically. What's worse, they let other people do their thinking for them. So they hold pre-canned conclusions that, even though these conclusions don't hold up to even the lightest scrutiny, they never waver from. This is the plain face of ignorance. And you can now find the most appalling ignorance all over this country.

    This thread is about Piss Christ. Discuss. It will be like a mirror held to nature.

    [​IMG]
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm pretty sure you could have gotten the same effect with yellow food coloring and some sediment.
  3. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    What does it matter if it is still titled Piss Christ - it's the idea that is important, is it not? Of course it is.
  4. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Not necessarily....

    For instance, if someone was to say, "You don't like it, well then, pi$$ on you," it would be quite different than if they actually pi$$ed on you, wouldn't it?

    Unless the latter wouldn't bother you any more than the former would.

    In which case you've got bigger problems than simply not knowing the difference between words and actions.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    While you are obviously free to consider the "art" in question "beautiful", it is entirely offensive to virtually anyone, and everyone, who holds a bible dear. It's no different than that arsewipe burning the Quran in a sense. To him, the offense he's imposing upon those who hold the quran in a high regard, isn't of any relevance, nor consequence, just like Piss Christ isn't to you.
  6. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    When does Titus show up to support your statement?
  7. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    What's the metaphor again?
  8. DarrylS

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    As much as this is extremely distasteful and can never see the "art" i it..

    I think there is a need to articulate rules more clearly...
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  9. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I guess it's all how it's percieved.

    An old protestant asked his lifelong catholic drinking buddy that when he died if he would pour the finest whiskey he could find over his grave. He replied: "I will do that for ya....but you don't mind if I run it through my kidneys first do ya?"
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Jesus in Pis$ wasn't meant to be art it was created to "Pis$ Off Christians" and insult them you have to be pretty f-cking stupid to believe otherwise.

    Now the goof ball in Florida is going to do the same thing, he is going to create a "beautiful work of art" by showing a book going up in colorful flames but he really isn't doing it to be artful he is doing it for the same reason the creator of "Christ PiS$" put Jesus in Pis$, he is doing it to "Pis$ Off Muslims" and insult Islam.

    Jesus Saves
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    I find it very interesting that I have never before seen Piss Christ. I may have convinced myself I have in the past, or this might be a close-up crop of it... but what I thought I had seen had a container in the shot. Seeing this, I think I actually don't think I have ever seen this much-discussed art in the past.

    Here are my reactions:

    1) It is patently provocative and offensive.
    2) The image presented here is in fact beautiful.
    3) The reason you don't use yellow food coloring and call it yellow food coloring Christ is that the juxtaposition of (1) and (2) is what makes it effective.

    The statement is this: it is a disgusting notion, yet it is a beautiful image, if you are not so busy hating the notion. It's a fight between your mind/heart and your eyes. That's what he was making you confront.

    I will say the artist could not have done what he did with "Food Coloring Christ."

    I won't say he "should have" done this piece of art.

    I believe there was a flap over funding on this one? If there was NEA funding for it, there's a very strong argument that he should not have gotten it... not because it's "not art," but because the effect of the artwork is so divisive.

    Now, what the artist did not do is announce, completely unrelated to the notion of art, that he was leading a national piss-on-a-crucifix day as a day of religio-political action.

    You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theatre even if you shoot a video and title it "Yelling fire in a crowded theatre," and expect to plead the first amendment in your trial for endangering public safety, or if someone is trampled, manslaughter (or something.)

    An extensive application of said principal -- and extending such principals is dangerous, bear in mind -- would apply to this artist, the Quran-burning twit, and of course Strudel's recent posts.

    But if you extend that application it equates to "whatever people don't like is not protected speech, and the most irrational reaction wins." Extend it that far and free speech -- and much real art -- dies.

    Now, if it turns out that burning ink releases hazmat illegally... well, that's something that has to be considered. The only problem is that it's hard to see that being the case, while no other public safety provision applies to flags. Not that I like flag-burnings any better, mind you. I just think it's protected speech.

    Whether it's flag-burning or Quran-burning, you're looking at someone who derides the America that Jefferson, Madison, and their philosophical heirs have come to love... but while patently offensive, those very founders and those who followed made restrictions to free speech - and art - quite narrow for a good reason.

    This photo is art, no doubt, if you ask me. But I can also see an argument that it is hate speech.

    A Quran-burning is hate-speech, pure and simple. You don't have to weigh it against any argument that its primary statement is not hate but a tension between disgust and aesthetic pleasure. It degrades our domestic relations, and it endangers our troops abroad. But is that enough to actually legally ban it?

    I try to imagine public burnings of Torah scrolls on this, a high holy day, in America... and those who would fight for such public displays of anti-Semitism. I am not so sure I would be as sanguine in my wool-gathering in that case.

    I have, however, seen art that makes a more subtle statement that is nonetheless "derogatory" toward a symbol of Judaism that, while it occasioned a feeling of disgust for me, did not occasion that feeling without some admixture of a more subtle reaction.

    A Torah-burning as an act of political speech just says "I hate you and everyone like you."

    We like easy questions and easy answers. I think despite everything, the ACLU is right to defend the Nazis in Skokie and (probably) to defend the buttwipe that wants to burn Qurans.

    It's a way nastier display to have to permit, but that's the price of freedom.

    In our current Islamophobic atmosphere, however, merely worshipping "in the wrong place" is evidently considered hate-speech by Muslims.

    It's interesting how confessional-group identification shifts the goal-posts all the way to the opposite end-zone in our thinking.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  12. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Well put but I(cynic that I am) would add that the creator was snickering the entire time this piece of art was made. He got a lot of bang for his "art buck" The forced confrontation between heart and mind makes sense enough to accept it as a piece of art but he had to know and I suspect embraced the controversy that would come and furthermore I think he would rather stand among those who would piss on Christ than those that were appalled at the thought. Am I pulling that out of my butt? Yes but I just can’t imagine anyone with a sense of empathy wouldn’t have thought of the offensive nature that this would be to some.

    Now the Quran burning is indeed yelling fire in a movie theater as far as I am concerned. I fear that it will be the catalyst for death and destruction. It is hate speech and it the flames from this burning will be the flames that further divide the west from the middle east and will cause hard feelings between moderates. I just don’t see a good way out of this one.
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    Good post, patsfan

    What I find interesting about the work is that what makes it offensive, presumably, is the title and explanation of what it (allegedly?) shows.

    Had he provided a different explanation and re-titled it, I could see many of the offended people having a very different opinion of the same image.
  14. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Not that it matters but urine straight from the bladder is one of the most sterile liquid substance there is.

    It's a lot cleaner than if the artist had used, let's say, holy water from a church font.

    In other words, it's the connotation which is upsetting - not the actuality.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  15. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    This is the type of art the left wants tax payers to fund.
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Please show me where anyone here has said that.
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah but Mrs Pats said the Urine is straight from the bladder and it is pure so I think we should all have a picture of Jesus Christ floating around in a jar of Pis$ hanging over our beds.

    Goo Goo Ga Ga.

    I wish we knew what God looked like we could make a picture of him rolling around in a pile of sh!t, that would give every liberal in America an Orgasm.

    Burn The God Damn Book A Fiery Book Is A Form Of Art.

    DEATH TO THE GREAT SATAN AMERICA
    GOD WILLING
  18. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    All the usual suspects turned out to defend the Arts.

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...1-stimulus-money-national-endowment-arts.html

    My original post(below).... all the usual loons turned out to defend the arts...
    Check out the lnk... I think you will know a couple of the loons.

    Take this reply (below) to the above link.. buy a usual suspect (aka ... left wing loon).
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Give me a #$%^ing break will ya. Why don't you go swim in some then. Afterall, it's a lot cleaner than Holy Water. :rolleyes:

    What is wrong with people. The image is beautiful? It's a crucifix dipped in a jar of piss fahcrisakes. Since everyone loves a camp fire, or the the flashing glare of a fireplace, I guess some should come in here and say how "beautifull" an image the flaming Quran is. [​IMG]
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  20. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    You're right...I actually burned a couple of qurans over the labor day weekend...it was very artistic and beautiful as well.:rolleyes:

    Whether it's this piece of crap called art of or burning a sacred book of another's religion, whatever happened to basic respect and personal accountability?

    Why are we allowing people to get away with it on a social (not legal) level?
    And what has happened to people that they no longer have the courage to do what is right on a respect/moral level?
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010

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