Pioli discusses the evolution of grading players due to changes in the NFL

[MaineMan]

Seems to me that Pioli is talking about player evaluations in a broader sense, not limited to draft prospects (though he does mention the draft board). IOW, acquisitions like Arrington and Moore are an equal part of that general discussion.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Slightly off topic but since the link to the original post was in part about the "Patriots Way" I figured I'd put it here; it's worth noting, but not really worthy of its own thread.

Schiano on relationship with Belichick - Extra Points - Boston.com

"Bill has been an incredible person for me, not only professionally but I've gotten to know Bill -- his son Stephen played lacrosse at Rutgers, thus Bill was down there a lot, he'd come to work out some of our players," Schiano said. "Every time we visited I learned a ton, No. 1, and, No. 2, I felt very comfortable with (him). This is a no-nonsense guy, I kind of think that's what I am, and it's fun to be with people that it's just it is what it is, there's no agendas. As these things (NFL job opportunities) began to kind of show their head, I called him and asked him for some advice and he was great.

"I know we're competitors, I know there's 32 teams, we're in different divisions and different conferences, hopefully we'll continue to help each other grow -- certainly he'll help me a heck of a lot more than I'll help him -- but it's been a very good relationship. I know it will change now a little bit, but he's a special coach as we all know and to me a very special person, he and he son Stephen."​

 

[DonBlackmon55]

What "JAG WRs" were drafted and converted to DB?

Julian Edelman.

 

[nabwong]

From a philosophical standpoint I'm afraid to say that this so wrong. Tradition is what moulds us. We are the sum of everything that happened before us. Change is not in and of itself a good thing. What tradition, history and custom provide is the natural brake to unfettered and inadvisable change. Evolution is better than revolution.

Fortunately for me, I do not have to agree with you, and that my belief is wrong to you and you only.

Having said that, I believe that BB's philosophy is in line with mine. He keeps establishing that each game stands on its own merits. What happens in last season's game with a particular team would have little bearing on the outcome of the next game against the same team in question. Even week 1 is different from week 5 or week 10. (I'm reluctant to use words like causality)

Nowhere did I mention revolution. Change is change. Evolution or revolution, these are words used to confuse others. Just break it down to its simplest form. Labels like these serve only to segregate and create conflicts.

I am only what I experience. True. But I shouldn't be what others tell me I should be. This is the bottom line. People hide behind tradition (for certain things) because they are afraid to do the right things a lot of the time.

Just to be sure, I'd like to end by saying that anything I say is open for discussion and I try my best to write in such a way that would not sound like a personal attack to anyone's belief.

 

[Joker]

What tradition, history and custom provide is the natural brake to unfettered and inadvisable change. Evolution is better than revolution.

Thank you so very much, Marie Antoinette...and now, sports fans, we will hear from that Scion of the Saddle, Bronco Billy Bob the Butte Buckeroo, who will explain how that new fangled contraption, the oughteemobeel, will never replace Ol' Paint as a means of transportation....

 

[manxman2601]

Fortunately for me, I do not have to agree with you, and that my belief is wrong to you and you only.

Having said that, I believe that BB's philosophy is in line with mine. He keeps establishing that each game stands on its own merits. What happens in last season's game with a particular team would have little bearing on the outcome of the next game against the same team in question. Even week 1 is different from week 5 or week 10. (I'm reluctant to use words like causality)

Nowhere did I mention revolution. Change is change. Evolution or revolution, these are words used to confuse others. Just break it down to its simplest form. Labels like these serve only to segregate and create conflicts.

I am only what I experience. True. But I shouldn't be what others tell me I should be. This is the bottom line. People hide behind tradition (for certain things) because they are afraid to do the right things a lot of the time.

Just to be sure, I'd like to end by saying that anything I say is open for discussion and I try my best to write in such a way that would not sound like a personal attack to anyone's belief.

Nice post.

 

[MaineMan]

Julian Edelman.

Not sure how he was a "JAG WR" when drafted since he'd never played the position in college.

 

[Gumby]

Not sure how he was a "JAG WR" when drafted since he'd never played the position in college.

Agreed. So many keep posting that it is such a hard conversion from wr to db or that it shows BB's desperation.
Well the TB conversion to DB might have been more desperation.

Edeldude was a draftee based on "ATHLETICISM". He was a college QB. Everyone knew he wouldn't play QB and almost everyone at the time of the draft said that 'what position he would end up playing would be up to where his team needs/his talents get proven but MOST LIKELY WR.'

So why is it such a stretch that he plays DB? I dont get it; just cause it doesn't end up the one and only position Mel Kiper said was "most likely".
If he was drafted based on athleticism - then he fits in best on D; after all BB says the best athletes play there and the worst ones play OL.

 

[Potstickas]

Perhaps this explains why our drafting of DBs haven't been entirely successful. BB and company have been artificially(?) overvaluing the secondary position. Prospects originally valued as a mid third round pick is now rated as a second round pick.

 

[BTTA]

Re: Pioli discusses the Patriots system for scouting, grading and ranking draft picks

From a philosophical standpoint I'm afraid to say that this so wrong. Tradition is what moulds us. We are the sum of everything that happened before us. Change is not in and of itself a good thing. What tradition, history and custom provide is the natural brake to unfettered and inadvisable change. Evolution is better than revolution.

Revolution is the result of a failure to embrace change. It is the curiosity about the traps and blind spots that are inherent in tradition, and the willingness to challenge them, that define and limit the success of any organization or society.

Maintaining tradition is easy. Changing it requires time and courage.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: Pioli discusses the Patriots system for scouting, grading and ranking draft picks

Revolution is the result of a failure to embrace change. It is the curiosity about the traps and blind spots that are inherent in tradition, and the willingness to challenge them, that define and limit the success of any organization or society.

Maintaining tradition is easy. Changing it requires time and courage.

Change is just as limiting as tradition, particularly when forced upon us. And that's the thing about change, that's how we encounter it, by being forced to accept it whether willing or not. Tradition does not prohibit change, it just allows it to grow organically. Change is even more restrictive because it tends to be absolute and doesn't allow for dissent.

anyway, for fear of getting political, better not delve too far into this subject as much as I always enjoy debate with smart people like yourself.

Go Pats!!! And that won't change!

 

[Ron Sellers]

Perhaps this explains why our drafting of DBs haven't been entirely successful. BB and company have been artificially(?) overvaluing the secondary position. Prospects originally valued as a mid third round pick is now rated as a second round pick.

At first glance that would appear to be the case, but their method does not apply strictly to corners. Nickel backs were just an example; the same goes for all other sub packages, such as the 3rd down running back, 3rd down pass rushers, etc. In fact it may have even been part of the consideration to draft a second tight end (Aaron Hernandez) in 2010; a 2TE set would have been looked at as a sub package and not the primary formation at that time.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Here is some more from Pioli on the player evaluation process, this time focusing on another lightning rod position for Pats fans: wide receivers.

BostonHerald.com - Scott Pioli discusses the challenges in picking wide receivers - including his misses in New England

”We had hits and misses, even in free agency,” Pioli said. ”Donald Hayes, I blew that one. No offense to Donald. What it is, it’s difficult sometimes to see a player in a different system. And depending on how complicated or how the challenges of your offense . . . there’s the mental part. There’s some guys that can get by purely on athletic ability and skill and make a difference in college. As those players become pro players, and other people around them improve, sometimes it becomes difficult. Some of that becomes the mental part of the game. ”


From a pure evaluation standpoint, gauging the mental aspect is tough. How do you know how they’ll adapt? So is judging a college wide receiver who doesn’t go up against the same types of coverages as in the pros.


”College receivers don’t get a lot of press coverage. If they get it, it’s not good quality,” Pioli said. ”Their ability to get off the line of scrimmage, and escape the line of scrimmage . . . there are some really good corners in this league that know how to press, and really good defensive coordinators know how to set things up . . . so beyond size, how is that player going to be able to get open?”

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Congratulations, you know more about college players than the Patriots entire staff of college scouts do. Please do all fans of this team a favor and convince the Pats to hire you so that we won't ever again have to go through the disappointment of the team drafting the wrong player.
.

Whoa down boy! The whole point of this forum is speculation and second guessing.

And nobody really believes it when someone says that they really wanted the Patriots to pick so and so instead of so and so. Unless we see the actual post...it is all fiction....we all know that.

Typical post:
"I was sooo upset when the Patriots picked Tate...at the time I wanted them to take Wallace"....SURE YUP RIGHT....show us the post...