Pioli + Cassel...futures intertwined?

[billdog3484]

in the end Pioli will establish the market and then teams having a starting point to outbid each other.

Pioli gives cassel credibility on a trade not that he doesn't already have cred.

i agree with this to a point. but if another team likes cassel a lot and wants him, it will not make a difference whether pioli bids on him or not. what if he reviews tape of thigpen and thinks he has something? you're telling me that just because pioli doesnt bid, the pats will get less? i dont buy it

 

[billdog3484]

Would you trade Cassel to KC for their second round pick (#34 or 35, I believe) and a conditional 2010 pick?

If I were SP I wouldn't try to destroy the framework of the team. They have some talent. Adding a pass-rushing DE along with a QB would put them in much better shape for 2009.

from my understanding, guys like lombardi from the national football post, think that the starting point will be a first round pick plus a third. i may be mistaken about this, but i think somebody posted one of the "football insiders" blogs which stated this. maybe it was schefter

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

i agree with this to a point. but if another team likes cassel a lot and wants him, it will not make a difference whether pioli bids on him or not. what if he reviews tape of thigpen and thinks he has something? you're telling me that just because pioli doesnt bid, the pats will get less? i dont buy it

no i agree with you, but pioli in the mix helps drive up the cost unless he tries to underbid. i guess we just don't know

 

[mayoclinic]

from my understanding, guys like lombardi from the national football post, think that the starting point will be a first round pick plus a third. i may be mistaken about this, but i think somebody posted one of the "football insiders" blogs which stated this. maybe it was schefter

I read the Lombardi article. My question was more in response to people thinking that Pioli going to KC might make them the front runners for Cassel. KC's first round pick (#3) is too high to likely be traded for Cassel or to be traded down during the FA period, so if they were serious about him it would seem to me that their options would be #33-34 or 2010 picks. Otherwise, interest or not, I'm not sure how they would make it work.

 

[stevedogc]

Well with both the Lions and Vikings in need of a QB and both in the same division, we could have a bidding war here.

The Lions can offer a better package of picks, especially considering a potential future conditional pick. But we have to keep in mind that no team will trade for Cassel unless he signs a long term deal. And he is more likely to do that in Minny.

I have a hard time believing that a #1 for Cassel isn't out there. The Lions could potentially draft a franchise LT with the first pick and trade for a franchise QB with the 20th. Why wouldn't you do that? And if your answer is: "well they are the lions stupid". then I see your point, but Minny is another option.

Sign a guy like Housh to be the #1 with Berrian as the #2. Trade the 23rd pick for Cassel and suddenly you have a SB caliber offense.

Bottom line I would be shocked if the Pats don't get a first round pick for him. This season proved how QB starved the league is. outside of the usual suspects in the top 10 St Louis, KC etc... I could see also see the Bears making a play for him at 18 or even the Bucs at 19. Again just to many teams that need a quality QB to not have someone bite.

 

[stinkypete]

Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

I though Thigpen was ok as a temporary starter but there's no way you build a future around him. With the Chiefs picking 3rd in this year's draft, several mocks have them taking Sam Bradford. There will be several high-end pass rushers and offensive linemen available to them at that spot, could they be a mover for Cassel, should he be available for Cassel?

Clearly no one else in the NFL, besides Belichick, knows Cassel better than Pioli and McDaniels. If Cassel is a legitimate long term starter and not just a system guy, then Pioli knows it. He will come cheaper than #3 overall.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

Do the Pats want to be picking third overall? The contracts are so huge in the top 5 that the talent has a hard time living up to the paycheck. Maybe KC will try to trade that pick for a middle-of-the-first pick, plus a second or third rounder, so that both can be shipped to New England for Cassel?

I'd definitely agree that Thigpen and Croyle probably aren't the long term answer at QB, so Pioli should be pursuing him. The added bonus would obviously be that Pioli has a pretty clear handle on that Cassel's strengths are, and what kind of players he should be surrounded with to maximize his skills.

 

[ALP]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

Pioli going to the chiefs is interesting...

i dont believe that u can just discount thigpen, b/c he may have what it takes long term w/ a better coach

howeve,r if the chacne comes when u can have ur franchise, then i think u have to take him

if pioli went to a team that desperately needed a QB, and he didnt take Cassel, ppl around the league would grow a little weary, as things stand, its completely reasonable that Pioli wont go after thigpen

all in all, i do not think we or Pioli can make a decision on thigpen at this time, but cassel is available NOW, not after thigpen is evaluated...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

I though Thigpen was ok as a temporary starter but there's no way you build a future around him. With the Chiefs picking 3rd in this year's draft, several mocks have them taking Sam Bradford. There will be several high-end pass rushers and offensive linemen available to them at that spot, could they be a mover for Cassel, should he be available for Cassel?

Clearly no one else in the NFL, besides Belichick, knows Cassel better than Pioli and McDaniels. If Cassel is a legitimate long term starter and not just a system guy, then Pioli knows it. He will come cheaper than #3 overall.

If it was me, I'd be part of the Cassel sweepstakes. There is no need for Pioli to use the 3rd overall on Cassel, he has the #2 pick in the second and can add future and Day Two picks to that to match the value offered by other teams.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

If it was me, I'd be part of the Cassel sweepstakes. There is no need for Pioli to use the 3rd overall on Cassel, he has the #2 pick in the second and can add future and Day Two picks to that to match the value offered by other teams.

Yeah, I think if KC trades for him, they will use the second rounder and sweeten the pot with more subsequent picks like a first next year. The #3 pick is too high and Belichick doesn't want to draft that high because of the money (granted with a potential uncapped year, rookie salaries may be moot).

If the Chiefs can trade down before the draft, maybe they will give a first this year.

I think if the Pats get a first rounder, it will be from the Vikes or Bucs. No one in the top 5 are going to give up their first for Cassel.

 

[ALP]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

imo, its best to be high in the draft, and be able to move down then the other way around....

if we can get the 3, get it, and we can figure it out l8r, its a nice prob to have

we can always move down the draft if no alternatives arise....

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

I don't see Pioli paying big for Cassel. Belioli (RIP) never traded a #1 for anyone that I remember. A #2 for Dillon is the most - different position, age, etc.

I could easily see Pioli offering this year's #2 and a conditional 2010 pick that could range from a #1 to a #3 depending how Cassel does. I doubt he's going to overpay for him, though, and I doubt he wants to dump a high pick right off the bat with his new team.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

If Pioli learned anything from his time spent in NE it's that an organization needs a stud QB to become a dynasty. If Pioli believes that Cassel can be that type of QB for the Chiefs, I'm sure he wouldn't think twice about trading away the 3rd overall pick for Cassel. The question is ...... does Pioli believe Cassel is a stud QB?

As for BB not wanting the 3rd overall pick ..... are you kidding? If need be, it's far easier to move down in the draft than up.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

imo, its best to be high in the draft, and be able to move down then the other way around....

if we can get the 3, get it, and we can figure it out l8r, its a nice prob to have

we can always move down the draft if no alternatives arise....

The problem is the signing bonus is so high for the first five picks in the draft, that no one wants to trade up in that range. There hasn't been a trade in the top 5 since the Giants traded for Manning and that was only a two spot difference and happened after both teams drafted.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

I don't see Pioli paying big for Cassel. Belioli (RIP) never traded a #1 for anyone that I remember. A #2 for Dillon is the most - different position, age, etc.

I could easily see Pioli offering this year's #2 and a conditional 2010 pick that could range from a #1 to a #3 depending how Cassel does. I doubt he's going to overpay for him, though, and I doubt he wants to dump a high pick right off the bat with his new team.

On the other hand, drafting as high as they are, the Chiefs could give up that #1 for the quarterback and still draft a quality D-lineman high in round two. That would give the team Cassel, Gonzalez, Johnson and Bowe on offense and allow them to get some help for Dorsey, who disappointed last season and could use someone to take a bit of the pressure off.

Couple this with the Chiefs being way under the salary cap and suddenly getting your franchise quarterback for a #3 pick probably doesn't seem so bad. The question is going to be whether or not Pioli thinks Cassel can be that franchise quarterback.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

On the other hand, drafting as high as they are, the Chiefs could give up that #1 for the quarterback and still draft a quality D-lineman high in round two. That would give the team Cassel, Gonzalez, Johnson and Bowe on offense and allow them to get some help for Dorsey, who disappointed last season and could use someone to take a bit of the pressure off.

They definitely have the skill guys if they were to get Cassel. Logically I don't disagree with you but my gut says Pioli isn't going to trade his big chip to get someone from his old place; I think he'll want that trade, if it happens, to not look like he's trading his big chip to his old pal and getting taken.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

As for BB not wanting the 3rd overall pick ..... are you kidding? If need be, it's far easier to move down in the draft than up.

That would be true outside the top 5 or so picks.

As I pointed out before, there's a story about GM A calling GM B about moving up from #5 to #3 (or something like that). GM B's reply was, "Sure. And what else will you give me?"

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

That would be true outside the top 5 or so picks.

As I pointed out before, there's a story about GM A calling GM B about moving up from #5 to #3 (or something like that). GM B's reply was, "Sure. And what else will you give me?"

Matt Ryan was drafted #3 last season. I'm pretty sure that GM B would agree that ponying up to get that #3 pick would have been worth it.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

Matt Ryan was drafted #3 last season. I'm pretty sure that GM B would agree that ponying up to get that #3 pick would have been worth it.

I'd take the 3rd pick and trade it to the Raiders for Asomugha and a future.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Cassel

I'd take the 3rd pick and trade it to the Raiders for Asomugha and a future.

I'd rather have Calvin Johnson, but I like what you're thinking about turning the pick around.