Picking Up The Blitz and Understanding The Offense

[mgteich]

On the patriots, the #1 requirement is that a 3rd down RB be able to pick up the blitz. If a running back can't understand our offense and be able to pick up the blitz, he is useless and will ride the bench.

For me, when we consider 3rd down Rb's, we obviously want them to be good receivers. But before we consider anyone, he must be able to pick up our complicated offense (not as necessary on 1st down) and he must be able to pick up the blitz.

Vereen has a role. If we are not able to re-sign him, it may be difficult to replace him.

That being said, how good are BOLDEN, WHITE, BUSH at picking up the blitz.

BTW, I would expect a rookie to take awhile to bot learn our offense and learn the blocking schemes. 3rd down backs in the draft were NOT blockers in college. They were the primary runners on their teams.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Same thing was said when Faulk was phased out .... we moved along fine.

 

[patsfaninpa]

The primary job of every team's third down back is to block and catch the ball. Let's not pretend the Pats are doing something any different than most of the league.

 

[Gronkandez]

The primary job of every team's third down back is to block and catch the ball. Let's not pretend the Pats are doing something any different than most of the league.

When they run out in the flat, if the LB is right on them they need to turn it into a wheel route.

 

[Ring 6]

On the patriots, the #1 requirement is that a 3rd down RB be able to pick up the blitz. If a running back can't understand our offense and be able to pick up the blitz, he is useless and will ride the bench.

For me, when we consider 3rd down Rb's, we obviously want them to be good receivers. But before we consider anyone, he must be able to pick up our complicated offense (not as necessary on 1st down) and he must be able to pick up the blitz.

Vereen has a role. If we are not able to re-sign him, it may be difficult to replace him.

That being said, how good are BOLDEN, WHITE, BUSH at picking up the blitz.

BTW, I would expect a rookie to take awhile to bot learn our offense and learn the blocking schemes. 3rd down backs in the draft were NOT blockers in college. They were the primary runners on their teams.

You are making it sound like rocket science when it really isn't. RBs in the passing game are given reads, and they react to them.
I am not aware of a single back we have ever had who's football IQ was so low he couldn't figure out that job.

 

[patchick]

BTW, I would expect a rookie to take awhile to bot learn our offense and learn the blocking schemes. 3rd down backs in the draft were NOT blockers in college. They were the primary runners on their teams.

James White came out of college with good pass protection skills. David Johnson is another player I like in this draft who has strong experience in the passing game, both as a blocker and a receiver.

 

[1960Pats]

You are making it sound like rocket science when it really isn't. RBs in the passing game are given reads, and they react to them.
I am not aware of a single back we have ever had who's football IQ was so low he couldn't figure out that job.

Right. It always seems to come down to their ability to block more than their recognition.

 

[Ring 6]

Right. It always seems to come down to their ability to block more than their recognition.

And I would say with 90% or more of the RBs the willingness and effort to block is what matters, because they are at a severe disadvantage vs any DL or LB, and slowing them down is all that you can really ask.

 

[mgteich]

You are making it sound like rocket science when it really isn't. RBs in the passing game are given reads, and they react to them.
I am not aware of a single back we have ever had who's football IQ was so low he couldn't figure out that job.

You are not aware of a single RB who is so low a football IQ that he couldn't be an effective blocker for Brady in our passing game? I have no reason to disbelieve your statement. It is your statement regarding your personal knowledge.

Personally, I over the decades, I have seen many, many, many running backs that I would not want in the role. I suspect that Belichick also has seen such running backs.
===
My personal view is that 1st down backs DON'T have to have a lot of football IQ (or Wondelic-tested IQ). There have been many successful RB's who had trouble writing their name. Wonderlic's under 10 are OK for some teams in their starting RB role.

IMHO, 3rd down backs need different skill sets.

 

[Ring 6]

You are not aware of a single RB who is so low a football IQ that he couldn't be an effective blocker for Brady in our passing game? I have no reason to disbelieve your statement. It is your statement regarding your personal knowledge.

It is my observation. Which Patriot RB are you thinking of?

Personally, I over the decades, I have seen many, many, many running backs that I would not want in the role. I suspect that Belichick also has seen such running backs.

Which ones? We have had maybe 20 RBs on the team since BB was here, please list the ones you consider many, many, many.

===
My personal view is that 1st down backs DON'T have to have a lot of football IQ (or Wondelic-tested IQ). There have been many successful RB's who had trouble writing their name. Wonderlic's under 10 are OK for some teams in their starting RB role.

A wonderlic or writing your name does not measure football IQ. The job of reading your check on a pass play is not genius level work.

IMHO, 3rd down backs need different skill sets.

Every different role requires a different skill set. I'm not sure what that fact has to do with how hard it is to be able to understand a blocking assignment.

 

[Fencer]

You are making it sound like rocket science when it really isn't. RBs in the passing game are given reads, and they react to them.
I am not aware of a single back we have ever had who's football IQ was so low he couldn't figure out that job.

It's also a question of blocking in space, which is difficult as a matter of technique. What I don't know is how dependent the technique is on quickness of recognition.

Anyhow, underscoring the importance of the task -- if Sammy Morris had been a more successful blocker, Brady might not have missed a season.

 

[Fencer]

And I would say with 90% or more of the RBs the willingness and effort to block is what matters, because they are at a severe disadvantage vs any DL or LB, and slowing them down is all that you can really ask.

Would you put Corey Dillon in the other 10%? How about prime Kevin Faulk?

 

[mgteich]

It is my observation. Which Patriot RB are you thinking of?

I was not talking about all the RB in the history of the patriots. I was talking about running backs who might play for the patriots in 2015, both those on the team (the subject of the thread) and those who we might acquire.

However, it doesn't really matter. If you believe that 90% of the running backs in the NFL are good enough to block for Brady on 3rd down, there really can be no further discussion, although I'm sure that you'll provide some.

I don't know how much a 3rd down is worth; that is a separate question.

However, you and I have very different opinions with regard to how common it is for running backs to be good enough blockers to block for Brady.

I started this thread to find our opinions abut whether our current running backs are good enough blockers to be 3rd down backs for us. I thank you for you opinion on this subject.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Honestly I'd love to have Vereen back. I'm a big fan and I think he enhances our 3rd down production because he IS a capable blocker and he is dangerous in space. A RB who can literally run WR routes.

He's also a proven 'big game' performer. Vereen dominated the Texans in the playoffs a couple of seasons back and he put on another noteworthy performance in this year's Superbowl. Vereen moved the chains. That makes him very valuable imo and someone that we need to keep if we can afford to do so.

If I had to pick between paying Ridley or Vereen to keep them on the roster, I'd pick Vereen every time. I think we would do fine with Blount, White, Grey, and a draftee as our 1st/2nd down RBs. 3rd down is one of the most important downs in the NFL, it's the downs where you need to move the chains to keep the drive alive. Vereen is a big part of our success on 3rd down.

 

[Ring 6]

I was not talking about all the RB in the history of the patriots. I was talking about running backs who might play for the patriots in 2015, both those on the team (the subject of the thread) and those who we might acquire.

However, it doesn't really matter. If you believe that 90% of the running backs in the NFL are good enough to block for Brady on 3rd down, there really can be no further discussion, although I'm sure that you'll provide some.

If you want to make comments like that, then just don't respond to my posts.

 

[Ring 6]

Would you put Corey Dillon in the other 10%? How about prime Kevin Faulk?

What I am saying is that there is not a huge difference in the ability of RBs to block a DL or a LB, once they get to the right place. Few can do more than slow them down, and in most cases that is all that is ever really asked of them.

 

[nabwong]

I wonder if Vereen is able to block Collins in practice on a regular basis.

 

[Gumby]

What I am saying is that there is not a huge difference in the ability of RBs to block a DL or a LB, once they get to the right place. Few can do more than slow them down, and in most cases that is all that is ever really asked of them.

I dunno Andy, over the years I've seen plenty of ole blocks by rbs ( not all by patriots) and BB has for sure not kept some guys who couldn't 'slow them down'. I would disagree that all rbs are equal

 

[Ring 6]

I dunno Andy, over the years I've seen plenty of ole blocks by rbs ( not all by patriots) and BB has for sure not kept some guys who couldn't 'slow them down'. I would disagree that all rbs are equal

I qualified those comments with those who are willing blockers.
And I'm not saying they are all equal, just that there isn't a huge difference among the ones that get to the right spot, and are willing blockers.
Again, they aren't asked to block like a LT. Its accepted that its a mismatch, and they are asked to slow the man down.

 

[Gumby]

I qualified those comments with those who are willing blockers.
And I'm not saying they are all equal, just that there isn't a huge difference among the ones that get to the right spot, and are willing blockers.
Again, they aren't asked to block like a LT. Its accepted that its a mismatch, and they are asked to slow the man down.

Ok, then the ones I'm thinking of don't get to the right spot consistently. Amounts to the same thing- bad blocker.