Pick #27- you'll be very disappointed if Pats pass on whom?

[supafly]

The basis of my argument stems from the New England Patriots offense during the past two seasons:

2011 NFL Season: 3rd points scored
2010 NFL Season: 1st points scored

The New England Patriots are the only AFC team that scored over 500 points in the last two consecutive seasons.

During the 2012 unrestricted free agent period, the New England Patriots have added the following offensive players:

Brandon Lloyd
Donte Stallworth
Anthony Gonzalez
Daniel Fells
Robert Gallery
Tony Fiammetta

In addition, six of the first seven draft selections in the 2011 NFL draft were offensive players. Selecting any additional offensive players in the 2012 NFL Draft, especially in the first two rounds, will not incrementally improve the New England Patriots offense during the 2012 NFL Season. Any rookie wide receiver will most likely rot on the bench for the entire 2012 NFL Season, as evident by wide receiver Taylor Price during his short stint with the New England Patriots.

With regard to the defense, the following defensive players have either flashed potential during the 2012 NFL Season or are bona fide starters:

Vince Wilfork
Kyle Love
Brandon Deaderick
Jonathan Fanene
Rob Ninkovich
Jerod Mayo
Brandon Spikes
Dane Fletcher
Patrick Chung
Devin McCourty
Ras-I Dowling
Kyle Arrington
Sterling Moore

The rest of the defensive players have serious question marks either returning from injury, unfamiliarity with the defensive system, declining performance due to age (Will Allen), and overall talent level.

I fully agree with you buddy.

The question is--does Belichick feel that way?

And, will his opinion change based on what players are left on the board?

These are the questions that will matter the most.

In reference to last yr's 2011 draft, IIRC 9 of the last 11 picks (with the exception of Gronkowski) were taken on defense in the first 2 rounds. If you go back to the first 3 rounds of the last several drafts, you'll see what I am talking about. Belichick did indeed, draft defense on ALL high picks, for several yrs in a row.

He took a year off in 2011 to switch back to the offense last yr.

It would seem as though he would turn his needs back to the defensive side of the ball again this yr, seeing as though they have some needs/many needs there, depending upon how you may see it.

Again, hopefully BB agrees, but since he's kind of gone BPA alot it's hard to predict.

 

[supafly]

Before last yr's offensive picks:

9 of the last 11 first or second round picks were spent on the defensive side of the ball in the last several drafts. Unfortunately, some of those players did not work out, and that left us with some holes. It is obvious that the defense should be addressed with most or all of our first and second rounders again this yr, and hopefully Belichick agrees.

2010

1st--McCourty
2nd--GRONKOWSKI (exception #1)
2nd--Cunnigham
2nd--Spikes

2009

1st--no pick
2nd--Chung
2nd--Brace
2nd--Butler
2nd--VOLLMER (exception #2)

2008

1st--Mayo
2nd--Wheatley

2007

1st--Meriweather

 

[ATippett56]

In reference to last yr's 2011 draft, IIRC 9 of the last 11 picks (with the exception of Gronkowski) were taken on defense in the first 2 rounds. If you go back to the first 3 rounds of the last several drafts, you'll see what I am talking about. Belichick did indeed, draft defense on ALL high picks, for several yrs in a row.

2011 NFL Draft
#17 Nate Solder, OT
#33 Ras-I Dowling, CB
#56 Shane Vereen, RB
#73 Stevan Ridley, RB
#74 Ryan Mallett, QB

2010 NFL Draft
#27 Devin McCourty, CB
#42 Rob Gronkowski, TE
#53 Jermaine Cunningham, OLB - MIA 2011 NFL Season
#62 Brandon Spikes, ILB
#90 Taylor Price, WR - Cut (no longer on roster)

2009 NFL Draft
#34 Patrick Chung, SS
#40 Ron Brace, DT - Bust
#41 Darius Butler, CB - Cut (no longer on roster)
#58 Sebastian Vollmer, OT
#83 Brandon Tate, WR - Cut (no longer on roster)
#97 Tyrone McKenzie, ILB - Cut (no longer on roster)

 

[manxman2601]

Before last yr's offensive picks:

9 of the last 11 first or second round picks were spent on the defensive side of the ball in the last several drafts. Unfortunately, some of those players did not work out, and that left us with some holes. It is obvious that the defense should be addressed with most or all of our first and second rounders again this yr, and hopefully Belichick agrees.

2010

1st--McCourty
2nd--GRONKOWSKI (exception #1)
2nd--Cunnigham
2nd--Spikes

2009

1st--no pick
2nd--Chung
2nd--Brace
2nd--Butler
2nd--VOLLMER (exception #2)

2008

1st--Mayo
2nd--Wheatley

2007

1st--Meriweather

I think that the very youthful defense was one of BB's concerns last year, hence the offense heavy draft and the FA defensive acquisitions.

 

[State]

Devin McCourty was horrendous at cornerback during the 2011 NFL Season and to blame his performance on the safeties is completely disingenuous.

You're right. McCourty played poorly last season, which was so disappointing considering how well he played the year before, his rookie season. There's no reason to think he'll play much better then he did last year.

But you don't follow your own methodology in the Brandon Boykin discussion regarding Julian Edelman's 10.6 yard average returning punts in 2011. I don't care what he did in 2010.

Last year, mainly using Edelman, we were 16th in the league in punt returns. A returner for both kick-offs (we were even lower at 29) and punt returns is a need. 2011 Team Returning Statistics - NFL - Sporting News

 

[ATippett56]

You're right. McCourty played poorly last season, which was so disappointing considering how well he played the year before, his rookie season. There's no reason to think he'll play much better then he did last year.

But you don't follow your own methodology in the Brandon Boykin discussion regarding Julian Edelman's 10.6 yard average returning punts in 2011. I don't care what he did in 2010.

Last year, mainly using Edelman, we were 16th in the league in punt returns. A returner for both kick-offs (we were even lower at 29) and punt returns is a need. 2011 Team Returning Statistics - NFL - Sporting News

Boykin is on my short list of cornerbacks with #62 overall draft selection. Refer to the Ye Official 2012 Mock Draft Thread, post #982.

 

[captain stone]

I don't care how we scheme to fit him into the rotation. Just draft the guy. I don't watch too much college football but whenever I do, I hear his name being called often. Having too many playmakers on either side of the ball is never a problem. It's a luxury.

After Hightower, we can then begin shoring up the other safety spot, the Dline and DB depth.

You & Nut aren't alone in the Donta Hightower fan club.
PFW's Nolan Nawrocki likes him too, a lot.

ProFootballWeekly.com - Q&A with draft analyst Nawrocki

Note the last paragrph in the last question from yesterday's Q & A.

 

[ATippett56]

You & Nut aren't alone in the Donta Hightower fan club.
PFW's Nolan Nawrocki likes him too, a lot.

ProFootballWeekly.com - Q&A with draft analyst Nawrocki

Note the last paragrph in the last question from yesterday's Q & A.

However, I just can't see the Steelers passing on Hightower.

 

[State]

Boykin is on my short list of cornerbacks with #62 overall draft selection. Refer to the Ye Official 2012 Mock Draft Thread, post #982.

I did and you did an awesome job.

I just want a draft with a good interior defensive lineman, an explosive Irwin or Curry, and a top-flight safety. And I'll be happy.

 

[supafly]

2011 NFL Draft
#17 Nate Solder, OT
#33 Ras-I Dowling, CB
#56 Shane Vereen, RB
#73 Stevan Ridley, RB
#74 Ryan Mallett, QB

2010 NFL Draft
#27 Devin McCourty, CB
#42 Rob Gronkowski, TE
#53 Jermaine Cunningham, OLB - MIA 2011 NFL Season
#62 Brandon Spikes, ILB
#90 Taylor Price, WR - Cut (no longer on roster)

2009 NFL Draft
#34 Patrick Chung, SS
#40 Ron Brace, DT - Bust
#41 Darius Butler, CB - Cut (no longer on roster)
#58 Sebastian Vollmer, OT
#83 Brandon Tate, WR - Cut (no longer on roster)
#97 Tyrone McKenzie, ILB - Cut (no longer on roster)

Dude---please try to read the posts....

I said that in reference to before the offensive heavy draft of last year, 9 of 11 picks that had been "high" (meaning in the FIRST or SECOND rounds) were spent on defense.

I have no idea WHY you:

1. Would list the 2011 draft

2. Would list anything past the SECOND round...

I even made another post after that where I actually listed all of the players.

No one else seemed to have a problem understanding.

 

[Leemo]

I don't want any offense in the first two rounds (unless an elite prospect falls..Decastro etc). This defense needs help, we have some core aspects but adding a S, OLB, DE/DT and CB with our first 4 picks has the potential to change our defense for the better. Use most of our picks t his year please Bill....

 

[ATippett56]

Dude---please try to read the posts....

I said that in reference to before the offensive heavy draft of last year, 9 of 11 picks that had been "high" (meaning in the FIRST or SECOND rounds) were spent on defense.

I have no idea WHY you:

1. Would list the 2011 draft

2. Would list anything past the SECOND round...

I even made another post after that where I actually listed all of the players.

No one else seemed to have a problem understanding.

Is this not what you wrote:

"If you go back to the first 3 rounds of the last several drafts, you'll see what I am talking about."

2009 Defensive Players

Ron Brace is a bust.
Darius Butler is no longer on the New England Patriots roster.
Tyrone McKenzie is no longer on the New England Patriots roster.

2010 Defensive Players

McCourty was a disappointment during the 2011 NFL Season.
Jermaine Cunningham was nowhere to be found during the 2011 NFL Season.

 

[supafly]

Is this not what you wrote:

"If you go back to the first 3 rounds of the last several drafts, you'll see what I am talking about."

2009 Defensive Players

Ron Brace is a bust.
Darius Butler is no longer on the New England Patriots roster.
Tyrone McKenzie is no longer on the New England Patriots roster.

2010 Defensive Players

McCourty was a disappointment during the 2011 NFL Season.
Jermaine Cunningham was nowhere to be found during the 2011 NFL Season.

I dunno. You didn't seem to have a problem when you quoted my last post with the highlighted comment which was one sentence long + bolded.

"The first 2 rounds."

Whatever, it's hard to argue when technically there was a misprint on my behalf after that, but I did list the entire 9 of 11 picks in my very next post several minutes later.

I'm certainly well aware that we went offense last year, as I started a unpopular thread saying that we would (which included QB) a day or so before the draft.

The point is that from 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 nine of the first 11 picks were spent on defense. Hopefully we will see more of the same, but it may not be as one sided as some may think. Only one man knows that, and even he probably has no idea until the selections are made.

So apologies for the misunderstanding, as it was partially my fault.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I just have this horrible feeling that the Patriots will either reach for a second-round CB or draft a Center/Guard with this pick.....

 

[Snake Eyes]

I just have this horrible feeling that the Patriots will either reach for a second-round CB or draft a Center/Guard with this pick.....

If that Center/Guard is Silatolu I think the pick will be well worth it.

 

[bagwell368]

I just have this horrible feeling that the Patriots will either reach for a second-round CB or draft a Center/Guard with this pick.....

I don't see a Center being worth a #27 pick this year - including Konz when there are near knock offs due to go off in the first 1/2 of the third round.

However I do see two G's that are - one who will be long gone, and another due to go off right around here.

Tell me. If Light and Waters retire, and Vollmer plays 2-3 games all year like last year, and Mankins misses the first five games of the year, do you want to field an OL for an elite offense with what's left over?

C: Connolly - far below average Center
T: Solder & Cannon - two second year guys w/o a ton of playing time as rookies. Hmmm.
G: ???????? & ????????

I still think BB will trade down #27 to #36 or #38, and grab a G in the 3rd, and draft two CB's (one to be used as a FS), and 2-3 front 7 guys that meet a 4-3 set (3-4 OLB's and DE's are not that plentiful, and they often take time to get ready - and are less risky too).

But Glenn at #27 might be the best player on the board at a position of need, plus BB might get a kick out of idiot Kiper having a fit.

 

[Sciz]

Tell me. If Light and Waters retire, and Vollmer plays 2-3 games all year like last year, and Mankins misses the first five games of the year, do you want to field an OL for an elite offense with what's left over?

C: Connolly - far below average Center
T: Solder & Cannon - two second year guys w/o a ton of playing time as rookies. Hmmm.
G: ???????? & ????????

Man, and that WR position is looking pretty bad if Welker tears another ACL, Lloyd gets caught selling meth, Branch decides he wants to retire, Ochocinco becomes a professional soccer player, and Gonzalez breaks both legs simultaneously. What's left over?

Starting outside receiver: Stallworth and ????????
Starting slot receiver: Edelman and ????????
3rd, outside receiver: ???????? and ????????

I give your scenario just a slightly higher chance of happening than mine. There's been no indication that Waters is planning to retire (unlike Light). Vollmer may continue to have back problems, but the bigger issue last season was the ankle that he hurt on a fluke play. They're going to have to tie Mankins down to keep him from playing week 1. And even then, they have Gallery. And Connolly isn't nearly as bad as you say.

 

[ATippett56]

So apologies for the misunderstanding, as it was partially my fault.

My apologies for the interpretation of your post.

If you go back as far as the 2007 NFL Draft, note the number of defensive players drafted and subsequently cut, which is one of the main reasons the New England Patriots defense has regressed since the 2009 NFL season.

2009 Points Allowed - 285 (Rank 5th)
2010 Points Allowed - 313 (Rank 8th)
2011 Points Allowed - 342 (Rank 15th)

 

[ATippett56]

I just have this horrible feeling that the Patriots will either reach for a second-round CB or draft a Center/Guard with this pick.....

There will not be an offensive guard worth a first round draft selection at #27 overall.

 

[supafly]

My apologies for the interpretation of your post.

If you go back as far as the 2007 NFL Draft, note the number of defensive players drafted and subsequently cut, which is one of the main reasons the New England Patriots defense has regressed since the 2009 NFL season.

2009 Points Allowed - 285 (Rank 5th)
2010 Points Allowed - 313 (Rank 8th)
2011 Points Allowed - 342 (Rank 15th)

I fully agree that defensive picks are greatly needed this year.

Part of the reason that some of those guys were cut (besides inaccurate scouting and mis-informed opinions) were that we used an excessive number of picks in that period due to the rebuilding phase on defense. The draft's a gamble, so I'm not quite as shocked as some that a higher percentage didn't work out.

You are right though, had those picks been better we'd be in a better place.

I think the debate kind of started with the 'safest' pick comment, and that's where we disagreed. I hope and think that a defensive player or two will be taken in the first round, but my only point was that sometimes Belichick has a different value on guys then we do, as fans.

Here's hoping he's on the same page with the fanbase to some extent, we need guys in the front seven AND secondary--so nothing's out of play on that side of the ball.