PFW: Comprehensive minicamp TE Analysis

[arrellbee]

Maybe I'm a little late to this thread, but are there people on here arguing that NFL coaches use TV broadast tapes to break down film and don't actually tape the game themselves? You're kidding, right?

I know a guy who is a videographer for the Pats. They tape their own games. They might supplement this with raw network footage, that could be in the league TV contracts, but they are definitely taping games.

I don't know, its late, so maybe I'm not understanding the argument, but that seemed to be the gist of it, but really I don't know how anyone could think otherwise.

I don't want to get in the middle of this fight and I'm not even really sure what the argument is about since the topic is about tight ends but I just read this on Patriots.com and thought it might be of value:

Does the Patriots coaching staff tape all of the games themselves and if not where do they get their video from? Thanks.
Mark Richter

Every single game the Patriots play is taped by the team’s video crew from the end zone angle and a side angle specifically for the coaching staff. The game is recorded from above so the coaches can see everything that’s going on and what is happening anyplace on the field on a particular play. This is the reason why you hear the phrase “coaches’ tape.†The way they tape the game gives coaches a very specific view of the action that most people aren’t able to see. They also tape every practice in a similar manner.
-Tom Casale

Thanks guys. There appears to be a lot of misperceptions on both sides of the argument and this should go a long way to quieting all of the misinformation.

Originally Posted by I'm Ron Borges?
No, I'm not. Feel free to e-mail the Pats and ask them if they have some intern taping the games from the coaches box or not. If they so no, I'll apologize to everyone on here. Even T-shirt said everyone knows this is done but apparently you are not one of those people. My God, they even do that in high school for christ sakes.

Well, I guess you weren't kidding. I'm sure they do that in high school games - I've taped a few myself. However, have you ever watched any Belichick play analysis ?? Where do you think the cameras were situated that he uses ?? Just curious.

Well, these nice folks saved you from having to answer, Ronnie.

Let me add that I, for another, appreciate to no end the work that Box and Pats1 do and give us the benefit of. It takes a LOT LOT LOT of time to do that and I can identify with Pats1 comment about wearing out the remote !! !! If you are curious about what a particular player is doing, I think it's pretty obvious that you can't depend on media hype, including almost all of our local types. Two examples that come to mind that sent me to the long task of slo-mo & freeze frame to see what was going on were Dwight Freeney and Monty Beisel. What you learn can be rather fascinating compared to 'perceptions' and media 'opinions'.

 

[tombonneau]

Well I'm glad I could be part of a sensible solution to an argument. It doesn't happen often.

And btw, hats off to I'm Ron Borges? for his handle. Anyone who can slam Ron Borges and reference Anchorman at the same time is alright in my book.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't want to get in the middle of this fight and I'm not even really sure what the argument is about since the topic is about tight ends but I just read this on Patriots.com and thought it might be of value:

Does the Patriots coaching staff tape all of the games themselves and if not where do they get their video from? Thanks.
Mark Richter

Every single game the Patriots play is taped by the team’s video crew from the end zone angle and a side angle specifically for the coaching staff. The game is recorded from above so the coaches can see everything that’s going on and what is happening anyplace on the field on a particular play. This is the reason why you hear the phrase “coaches’ tape.†The way they tape the game gives coaches a very specific view of the action that most people aren’t able to see. They also tape every practice in a similar manner.
-Tom Casale

Well, I was partially correct, but I can admit that I was also wrong in that my understanding was not complete.

Thanks for providing the info, Patsrule. And I will thank Mark Ricther as well.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Thanks guys. There appears to be a lot of misperceptions on both sides of the argument and this should go a long way to quieting all of the misinformation.

Well, these nice folks saved you from having to answer, Ronnie.

Let me add that I, for another, appreciate to no end the work that Box and Pats1 do and give us the benefit of. It takes a LOT LOT LOT of time to do that and I can identify with Pats1 comment about wearing out the remote !! !! If you are curious about what a particular player is doing, I think it's pretty obvious that you can't depend on media hype, including almost all of our local types. Two examples that come to mind that sent me to the long task of slo-mo & freeze frame to see what was going on were Dwight Freeney and Monty Beisel. What you learn can be rather fascinating compared to 'perceptions' and media 'opinions'.

What do I have to answer to? You were the one who said this practice only goes on during high school games.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Well, I was partially correct, but I can admit that I was also wrong in that my understanding was not complete.

Thanks for providing the info, Patsrule. And I will thank Mark Ricther as well.

DaBruinz, this is what you said:

I didn't show myself to be an idiot. This goes to show you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. The cameras in the stadium all provide TV film footage. There are no other cameras rolling that provide film to the coaches. What I understand, also, chumly, is that the TV footage doesn't show EVERYTHING the coaches get, but that what the coaches get comes from the same cameras.

There are people on here who are clearly smarter than you. There are people who are smarter than I am. YOU are not one of them.

Can you tell me what is partially correct about that because it sounds 100 percent wrong to me? You said there are no other cameras rolling besides the TV cameras. Wrong. Maybe in the future you won't be so quick to try and make someone look like an idiot when you have no idea what you are talking about. People are wrong all the time so there is no need to go out of your way and try to look cool just because you disagree with what someone says. In the end, you could end up looking the fool. I think this is a perfect example of what I mean. Not partially, but entirely.

 

[arrellbee]

What do I have to answer to? You were the one who said this practice only goes on during high school games.

At the risk of prolonging something, what the heck are you talking about ?? ?? ?? You originally said that :

Originally Posted by I'm Ron Borges?
... video tape the game themselves from up in the coaches box.

Now, hopefully you have a clue as why I asked:

Originally Posted by arrellbee
You're kidding, right ?? ?? ??

So you came back with this claiming you really did know what you were talking about:

Originally Posted by I'm Ron Borges?
No, I'm not. Feel free to e-mail the Pats and ask them if they have some intern taping the games from the coaches box or not. If they so no, I'll apologize to everyone on here. Even T-shirt said everyone knows this is done but apparently you are not one of those people. My God, they even do that in high school for christ sakes.

So I was even more puzzled as to why you thought you knew what the team did for coach's tape:

Well, I guess you weren't kidding. I'm sure they do that in high school games - I've taped a few myself. However, have you ever watched any Belichick play analysis ?? Where do you think the cameras were situated that he uses ?? Just curious.

So I tried to help you think about what you were claiming - if you have ever watched any Belichick or other coach analysis, you would have been able to figure out for yourself what was really going on without me calling you a dumb idiot like others do - but I may be getting close.

So, again, what the heck are you talking about ??

By the way, maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen the apology you said you would make.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

At the risk of prolonging something, what the heck are you talking about ?? ?? ?? You originally said that :
Now, hopefully you have a clue as why I asked:So you came back with this claiming you really did know what you were talking about:
So I was even more puzzled as to why you thought you knew what the team did for coach's tape:
So I tried to help you think about what you were claiming - if you have ever watched any Belichick or other coach analysis, you would have been able to figure out for yourself what was really going on without me calling you a dumb idiot like others do - but I may be getting close.

So, again, what the heck are you talking about ??

By the way, maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen the apology you said you would make.

I said the team tapes all the games themselves and you said they only do that in high school. What part of that don't you understand? You used an example of me saying they tape the games themselves. Then you replied, "maybe at the high school level, I've even taped high school games myself." Just go back in the thread. It's all documented in case you have a case of selective amnesia. What am I going to apologize for, I was right. The game is taped from the side view (coaches box) and the end zone view (press box). I'm right and you're not. Get it now? I didn't mean the coaches tape the games. I even said it was probably some intern. You can go back and find that too if you want. Me right, you wrong. There's your apology. Man, I'm getting close to calling you a moron. How old are you that you can't comprehend this? 12?

 

[tombonneau]

Yes, please, this needs to end. I'm Ron Borges? was correct, teams tape their own games. A few other people here argued that they used the network game tapes to watch film. Those people were wrong. Period. Really, there is no leg to stand on. So please lets just stop this.

I'd instead rather talk about whether or not Garrett (sp?) Mills plays H-back or TE in this offense. What has he been lining up as in camp??

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Yes, please, this needs to end. I'm Ron Borges? was correct, teams tape their own games. A few other people here argued that they used the network game tapes to watch film. Those people were wrong. Period. Really, there is no leg to stand on. So please lets just stop this.

I'd instead rather talk about whether or not Garrett (sp?) Mills plays H-back or TE in this offense. What has he been lining up as in camp??

Thank you, I'm all for that. It's amazing, these guys get conformation that they were wrong and they still think they're right. All they had to do was say "sorry, I was wrong" and I wouldn't have said a thing about it but they couldn't even muster that up.

Patriots.com said Mills was lining up primarily at tight end during mini-camp but played fullback near the goal line and was going out for passes in that formation.

 

[tombonneau]

Short-yardage fullback. Amen. No more injuring All-pro D-lineman on offense. He should be a nice redzone/short-yardage threat coming out of the backfield as well, given the praise about his hands. Hopefully he can block.

 

[pats1]

Short-yardage fullback. Amen. No more injuring All-pro D-lineman on offense. He should be a nice redzone/short-yardage threat coming out of the backfield as well, given the praise about his hands. Hopefully he can block.

He can't run it. He can't block. I would not want him in my backfield in short-yardage.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

He can't run it. He can't block. I would not want him in my backfield in short-yardage.

I agree. I think he was lined up there to catch passes out of play action the story said. I don't think he'll be doing much blocking, especially right off the bat.

 

[tombonneau]

Well, let's hope he can be taught to block, otherwise, agreed, not much point having him lineup. Which raise an interesting question: why don't the Pats do any short-yardage 3TE sets with Graham in the backfield to block/catch, and have Watson & Thomas on either end.

Maybe they did do that last year and i didn't notice.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

The Pats did do some packages resembling a 3 TE set. They just used other players to fill in the blanks. Like Tom Ashworth, playing TE like he did in college. Or using a D-Lineman as a 'fullback'. A 3rd TE could just as easily be used in this situation.

Belichick loves the TE position, as we can tell by drafting one every year, no matter what.

We have plenty of short yard formations that could be run with 3 TE's. We just haven't had all the personnel before, between injuries ( Grambo ) and age ( Fauria ).

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The Pats did do some packages resembling a 3 TE set. They just used other players to fill in the blanks. Like Tom Ashworth, playing TE like he did in college. Or using a D-Lineman as a 'fullback'. A 3rd TE could just as easily be used in this situation.

Belichick loves the TE position, as we can tell by drafting one every year, no matter what.

We have plenty of short yard formations that could be run with 3 TE's. We just haven't had all the personnel before, between injuries ( Grambo ) and age ( Fauria ).

Your last paragraph is key, before Grahambo's injury there was the odd three TE set using Fauria and Graham on the line with Watson flanking, afterward the injuries to Graham and Watson prevented using that formation unless the team was in a short yardage power look with Vrabel or Ashworth. In the past Hochstein has taken reps at TE when they wanted to project a power formation, but he wasn't available in the second half of the season.

With Graham, Watson, Thomas, and Mills, plus Hochstein, Vrabel, and maybe Doty (if he surprises people and makes the club), I still wouldn't expect more than a handful of three TE sets through the season. The formation is just too limiting unless your in short yardage, and even then the match-ups would need to be more advantageous then other power formation options.