PFW: Comprehensive minicamp TE Analysis

[spacecrime]

Graham will be used strictly for blocking purposes.

That is exactly the opposite of what BB has been doing since he had blocking TE Rutledge and pass catching TE Wiggins.

He has gone out of his way to ensure that every TE we have can both block and catch.

This keeps the opposing defenses honest.

To not use Graham as a pass catcher would be to signal to teh defenses that it will either be a running play or if a pass, that tehy can double Watkins because Graham will not be a receive.

 

[Keegs]

i'm not a huge fan of the talk about Watson playing WR. I don't want this.
He's far more dangerous as a tight end.

I also love it how he played big against the Jags when we needed him too and how he never gave up against Denver, outrunning all players on our team. That really says alot about his talent, what kind of player he is, and whether he is capable of "stepping it up" like brady is when the game matters.

The only thing that scares me about him is the few fumbles i saw scared the crap out of me. I guess thats what you can expect when you set a beast like that loose, players will be going for the ball.

I am really happy we drafted Mills and Thomas. You can never have enough Tight ends. Always been one of my favorite positions and Ben Coates was always my favorite offensive player growing up. If one of our 2 TE picks shows up and plays, our offense is set in my opinion.

 

[JoeSixPat]

i'm not a huge fan of the talk about Watson playing WR. I don't want this.

I wouldn't worry about this. Even if some fans get confused about the distinction between the positions of TE and WR, BB will not be.

While we all saw a nice burst of speed from Watson against Denver to try to save a TD, somehow its been assumed that a 253lb guy has as much speed and endurance to stretch the field like a WR for the full extent of a game (not to mention a season.)

Things have to be VERY bad among our WR corps for BB to be turning to Watson as a WR.

I still hope he can catch a ton of passes in the 5-10 yard range with 5-10 yards after the catch giving Brady a Ben Coates like option (hopefully better than Ben Coates, who really only averaged about 10 yrds per reception) - but that wouldn't make Watson a WR any more than Ben Coates catching 96 passes in '94 was a WR.

 

[BelichickFan]

I wouldn't worry about this. Even if some fans get confused about the distinction between the positions of TE and WR, BB will not be.

Yeah, it's not non issue. Watson may well be the #2 receiver (defined as number of catches and yards) but it'll be from the TE position. Just like when Coates was the #2 receiver behind Glenn but Jefferson was the #2 WR.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

14th Dragon: I read an interview where Graham said that he had not heard from the Pats regarding an extension and he understood that that was the 'business side of things' but he didn't want to leave the Pats in that interview.

Have you heard anything more concrete about him wanting to go elsewhere for more money or expanded role, or are you referring to the same story I am? It was in the Globe or Herald not too long ago.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Watson is developing some BB speak it seems, after all, how hard is it for Thomas to be ahead of you at this point in the year when Ben was holding out his rookie year?

Casale drops the ball on blocking again: Graham isn't just the best blocking TE, he is the best blocker. That was my observation using Tivo and TV angles, but also stated by one of the OL in an interview a month or so back.

BB can't afford to limit Graham to blocking and Watson to receiving, not if his offense is going to execute the play the way it was drawn up and practiced. Watson was starting to show some talent as a blocker late in the season, even if he was also whiffing on his blocks, but if Graham wants a new home, Watson needs to develop his blocking to step up and fill some of that gap, the same as Thomas will be expected to work on his blocking, and route running, and defense reads, and Special Teams roles...Besides, part of the reason for using two TEs is to move them around, create mismatches, and distract the defense, can't do that very well if one TE receives and one blocks.

He said he was the best blocking tight end. You think he's a better blocker than Logan Mankins, Dan Koppen, Matt Light and Stephen Neal? I would have to disagree but then again, you have Tivo.

By the way, it's almost impossible to get a good look at blocking by just watching games on TV, even if you do have Tivo. The game angles only show the O-line for a second or two. Your opinion would actually hold more water if you were at the games live and were watching the O-line the whole time but if you think Graham is the best blocker on the Patriots, when he rarely blocks people one-on-one, you are crazy. He usually helps the left tackle double team guys like Freeney but according to you, the Pats should just use him to block Freeney one-on-one all the time instead. That makes no sense. Daniel Graham is a good blocker but he can't play LT. In other words, he's a good blocking tight end so I'm not sure where you are arguing what the author said unless you actually think he really is a better blocker than the entire Patriots offensive line. If that's the case, I think you need to fix the rewind button on your remote control.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I also heard that O-Linemen acknowledge that Graham blocks as good as they do. However, it is correct that a TE might not look nearly as good if he were playing the Left Tackle position. Graham probably just has more energy on a play by play basis because he is more of an assist-blocker than a full time blocker.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

I'm not doubting that the O-linemen said that, Graham is a great blocker but if Graham was that dominant of a blocker like Box is suggesting, you would have to think BB might have converted him to OT like the Broncos did with Matt Lepsis. Having a great OT is a million times more important than having a good blocking tight end. I am not doubting that Gragam is a great blocker and I don't think the guy who wrote that article is either. But to say that Graham is the best blocker on the team over some pretty good linemen is stretching it in my opinion. But hey, you never know, maybe BB doesn't have Tivo.

 

[arrellbee]

He usually helps the left tackle double team guys like Freeney

Actually, no. In the last playoff game with the Colts, Matt Light blocked Freeney one-on-one and completely successfully the ENTIRE game except for two plays (despite what the media hyped). Ironically those two double team plays were the only ones where Freeney got thru to pressure Brady. One double team was Light and Andruzzi and Andruzzi let him roll off around him. The other double was, interestingly enough, a two TE block with one TE coming across in motion - that didn't work either.

(As a side note, on a few plays Freeney switched from right DE position to left DE position but was blocked one-on-one without any problem there also.)

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I have watched that game a bunch of times, and think that Freeney got tons of pressure on Brady, not just two plays. I think Light is pretty average, although he plays a very tough position, for sure.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Actually, no. In the last playoff game with the Colts, Matt Light blocked Freeney one-on-one and completely successfully the ENTIRE game except for two plays (despite what the media hyped). Ironically those two double team plays were the only ones where Freeney got thru to pressure Brady. One double team was Light and Andruzzi and Andruzzi let him roll off around him. The other double was, interestingly enough, a two TE block with one TE coming across in motion - that didn't work either.

(As a side note, on a few plays Freeney switched from right DE position to left DE position but was blocked one-on-one without any problem there also.)

Yes, I agree with you that the last time the two teams met in the playoffs, Freeney was handled by Light. However, I was just using Freeney as an example of a good pass rusher, meaning that's when Graham is usually asked to help out in pass protection. There is no denying Graham is a great blocker but I wouldn't say he's a better blocker than a possible future Pro Bowler like Logan Mankins and that's what was suggested by the previous post.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

One last thing. I read the article over again and at the end the author wrote:

"Graham is in the last year of his contract but he’s still an important cog in the Patriots offense. At times he acts almost like another tackle but he can also make big plays when he’s catching tight end screens and short passes."

So when Box says he missed the point on his blocking despite the fact he referred to him as an extra tackle at times, tells me has a personal problem with the guy who wrote the article, not what it actually says. Just a hunch.

 

[arrellbee]

I have watched that game a bunch of times, and think that Freeney got tons of pressure on Brady, not just two plays. I think Light is pretty average, although he plays a very tough position, for sure.

Watch it again in slo mo play by play. Monty Reagor at right DT did cause some trouble against Andruzzi and Koppen. He got 6 tackles, one assist, and one sack.

One of the other interesting side notes is that Freeney never even got close to a RB if the play came to his side. He really is a pass rush only guy. It will be interesting to see how he fares this year against the NFC East, the AFC East, and Denver and Cincinatti. He may not have such good stats.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I never claimed that Freeney was good against the run, or was in on tackles. I said he spun his way around Light and clearly got pressure on the QB. Freeney is a one trick pony, and was also worn out by the end of the game, but he can get around Light. I don't think Light did a champion's job of stonewalling Freeney, he basically got in his way a little before Freeney found his way around. Most plays ended with Light facing forward and Freeney in the backfield. Brady did the rest by getting rid of the ball.

 

[arrellbee]

Yes, I agree with you that the last time the two teams met in the playoffs, Freeney was handled by Light. However, I was just using Freeney as an example of a good pass rusher, meaning that's when Graham is usually asked to help out in pass protection.

I see what you were getting at.

There is no denying Graham is a great blocker but I wouldn't say he's a better blocker than a possible future Pro Bowler like Logan Mankins and that's what was suggested by the previous post.

I agree with you on that.

I have never slo-mo-ed any games just looking to see what Graham was doing. It would be interesting to do that, especially against teams with top DE pass rushers. There would be a lot of interesting things to watch for. For example, against a top DE pass rusher, do the Pats run most (or almost all ??) of their plays with the TE on that side or do they more reflect field position between the stripes. And is the TE's assignment mostly double team on a DE - or is it more to protect that side of the QB whether it's picking up the DE that gets thru on the outside or a LB, safety, or CB blitzing.

It also raises another really curious question about the playoff game with the Colts. I didn't keep in my notes any particular comments about where the TE was playing, but I have the interesting impression that they almost never had the TE on Freeney's side except a few times when the TE was releasing immediately. I'm intrigued and hope I have some time to go back and look.

 

[arrellbee]

I never claimed that Freeney was good against the run, or was in on tackles. I said he spun his way around Light and clearly got pressure on the QB. Freeney is a one trick pony, and was also worn out by the end of the game, but he can get around Light. I don't think Light did a champion's job of stonewalling Freeney, he basically got in his way a little before Freeney found his way around. Most plays ended with Light facing forward and Freeney in the backfield. Brady did the rest by getting rid of the ball.

Absolutely not. Watch the game again. Actually what you will see is Freeney either ineffectually pushed outside without any pressure on Brady or pushed on past Brady also without any pressure.

I didn't think you were making any comments about Freeney against the run. Sorry if you got that impression. I indicated that my comment was a side note.

 

[ilduce06410]

hello sunny in denmark!

Another thing to consider about Thomas - he was 'only' a 3rd round pick and there were many TE's drafted ahead of him. Still, it was supposidly a very deep TE class, he was Vince Youngs' go-to man, and there was even an article that said it looked like Thomas was making the line calls for Texas (at the line of scrimmage)! I love our TE depth as it seems there is always one of our TE that is hurt. Plus there was a good article a month or so ago by Pat Kirwan about how 2 TE sets give the O a great advantage. It is mainly about how the Cowboys will use their 2 good TE - but the same can (will?) apply to us. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9444769
Sorry if this is rehash - I am new to this board and sometimes 'out of the loop' here in Denmark.

glad to see your post.
there are some old fogeys on this board who make the most posts, but it's still a fun board.
how did you come to be a patriots fan?

 

[SunnyDenmark]

glad to see your post.
there are some old fogeys on this board who make the most posts, but it's still a fun board.
how did you come to be a patriots fan?

First and foremost, I am a Yank (NOT Yankee - god forbid) as they call us Americans in Europe. Been in Denmark last 8 years due to a Great Dane (wife). Born and raised in Boston (South Shore) in the 60's - early 70's before my family moved to Wash DC. So I got caught up at an early age (didn't we all) with Havlicek, Bobby Orr, naturally the Sox and oh yes, there was also some Boston team that played football. Wash DC is an ok sports town (O's, 'Skins, Bullets in their prime in the '70's) but the people there just don't get caught up in it like the Bostonians do. So even though not having lived in Mass since '73 - I have always followed all four Boston teams religiously. Later in life (now sounding like a Doug Flutie press conference....ZZZZzzzzzz). Long story short - i have always followed the Pats but my interest has grown alot since '93 when Bledsoe came here as he is a fellow college alum (Washington State) but I was there during the Mark Rypien years. We (Pats) have come along way since the 60's and I am just proud (fortunate more honestly) to have seen two things that I was never sure I would see in my lifetime - Sox WS Champs and Pats SB champs. Multiple SB's! - this must be a dream. To wrap up this press conference- just want to say that NFL football interest has increased enormously in Denmark since I have been here (8 years) and it started with only the Super Bowl being shown live 6-8 years ago to showing the 4pm Nationwide NFL game 3-6years since to now the last two years showing BOTH 1 pm and 4 pm games live. They have Danish announcers call the game and they are adequate. Naturally - I dont get all the Pats games on TV but I follow them live via internet and the NFL Field package with Gino and Gill. I read all the internet info on the Pats but just found out about the site recently. I met another Bostonian living here via a post on another site so we get together and watch the games when they are on tv. He is a huge Rodney H. fan. I hope to become a somewhat semi-regular contributor on this site. So far the discussions have been of higher quality than what you see on CBS sportsline and such - trash talking is boring - I can do that with my MRS. But a semi-intelligent discussion with some occasional humor and good natured taunts thrown in; that is my cup of tea. Well - I've ranted on on long enough....ZZzzz. Where's Tyler Faiths' picture to wake us all up!

 

[arrellbee]

Sunny - OT question. Have you learned Danish language ? If so, how was that to do ? If my question is not welcome, just ignore. In any case, welcome to the board !!

 

[SunnyDenmark]

Sunny - OT question. Have you learned Danish language ? If so, how was that to do ? If my question is not welcome, just ignore. In any case, welcome to the board !!

Hi arrellbee, i can speak Danish conversationally but not fluently. It is a cross between German and Swedish. Strange grammar - no conjugation of the verb. feks. I am / you am /we am, etc. Makes things easier. Pronounciation though is the tough part -like French, words don't sound like they look on paper. Thanks for asking.