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  1. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    This article covered all the TE's in minicamp, and went into a lot of speculation about what this year's group will do. Watson supposedly caught 100 or so passes, and PFW thinks he might be a #2 target, after Branch. Thomas supposedly had the most all around impressive rookie showing in camp, with great hands. Mills spent the majority of camp at TE, not FB.

    We've been talking about several of these issues, Watson as a 'WR' option, of which I have been skeptical; Mills as a TE versus Patrick Pass's replacement at FB, of which I felt he was going to play lots in the passing game if he works out, not so much in the running game. Other claims include that this might be an elite group in the NFL.

    Lots of things to talk about from this article, hopefully I will get some response on this thread. I don't know how to set up links to Patriots.com, by the way!
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2005
  2. Brady-To-Branch

    Brady-To-Branch Rookie

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  3. I'm Ron Borges?

    I'm Ron Borges? Rookie

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    I enjoyed the article. It really got me pumped for the upcoming season and the prospects at tight end. I like reading all the good stuff on Watson. Like the article said, if he puts it all together he's going to be an absolute beast.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Wow, if that article doesn't get you fired up for the season to start, nothing will :D
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  5. Patsman12

    Patsman12 Rookie

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    Good stuff, even though it didn't come from Mike Reiss ;)

    Seriously, this does tend to get you jacked up for the season. Watson, from all accounts, was Brady's top target at minicamp so it wouldn't be surprising at all to see him emerge as the No. 2 overall receiver, like Tom Casale said.

    There's a lot of room for versatility here with this group, especially if Graham can stay reasonably healthy. And we all know how much Belichick loves versatility. I can see this being an elite group in the league.
  6. GoWhalers

    GoWhalers Rookie

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    Just to be clear...

    The article was referring to Watson as Brady's #2 target, not #2 WR. Meaning that Watson might finish #2 on the team in terms of receptions and/or receiving yardage. There was no mention whatsoever of Watson playing at the WR position.

    That said, the writer sure was high on Dave Thomas. Sounds exciting to me!
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  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Last year I was always disappointed Brady didn't go to him more. Although they seemed to have trouble being on the same page a little too often also. It looks like both of those problems are being fixed :)
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Right - as a WR, Watson makes a very good TE :D
  9. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    re

    Graham will be used strictly for blocking purposes.

    I see Watson, Thomas, and Mills being used in some cool 3-TE, 2-WR sets where Mills goes in motion a lot. As I speculated before, the writers seems to confirm that Mills will be used more like Chris Cooley as a motion tight end, and less as a fullback.

    -- Maverickdamus
  10. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    I think it is an important distinction: Watson is not likely at all to learn Branch's rhoutes, he will be running TE rhoutes, with some possible overlap, but very different responsibilities. That is why I still believe that the Pats need another veteran reciever, if possible, from a trade or something.

    As far as Watson and Brady not being on the same page, I heard that it was due to Watson not running all his rhoutes quite right, and he intended to work on that. Another reason he won't be covering for a WR.

    Watson claims that Thomas is further ahead than Watson was, so far, as a rookie....Hopefully, Thomas contributes as well.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2006
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Right, I'm not concerned about that at all. Watson is really smart and last year was his rookie year on the field. I expect a huge difference this year and for Brady to look his way a lot more.
  12. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    I also expect Watson to learn his rhoutes this year at TE, no doubt.
  13. SunnyDenmark

    SunnyDenmark Rookie

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    Another thing to consider about Thomas - he was 'only' a 3rd round pick and there were many TE's drafted ahead of him. Still, it was supposidly a very deep TE class, he was Vince Youngs' go-to man, and there was even an article that said it looked like Thomas was making the line calls for Texas (at the line of scrimmage)! I love our TE depth as it seems there is always one of our TE that is hurt. Plus there was a good article a month or so ago by Pat Kirwan about how 2 TE sets give the O a great advantage. It is mainly about how the Cowboys will use their 2 good TE - but the same can (will?) apply to us. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9444769
    Sorry if this is rehash - I am new to this board and sometimes 'out of the loop' here in Denmark.
  14. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    Pat Kirwan is one of my favorite sources in the national media, ironic when you consider he is a Jets fan. He really seems to be informed.
  15. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Rookie

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    Well, I am certainly encouraged by the article.

    I'm not overly worried about Mills. As a fourth rounder I am certainly willing to give him a little time to adjust into the new H-back role.

    But it should be interesting to see how McDaniel-son and Belichick work out how to use all the TE weapons.

    Still, I would be sad to see Graham leave at the end of the season. But the word on the street is he wants to go, so :dunno:

    But it is funny, TE is the one position where we do not have more guys then roster spots at the moment. THat has not been the case in years past.
  16. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    I'm in the middle of reading the 1st paragraph and I love this line " If mini-camp is any indicator, Watson is getting ready to open up a can on the rest of the NFL". I started laughing with excitement! I can't wait to see Ben tear it up!
    Also after reading this "It felt like he caught 100 balls from Tom Brady during the three-day camp and the most encouraging sign was there seemed to be a lot of plays designed to get the ball in his hands, especially near the red zone. Everyone knows this guy is oozing with physical ability and once he puts it all together, Watson is going to be a flat-out nightmare for opposing defenses".

    When does the season start again? Not soon enough!

    I said it before and I will say it again, despite losing Givens, this will be the best Pats offense we have ever seen! They will finish within at least the top five in total offense.

    Love the article and it will only get better once training camp rolls around..
  17. tailgater

    tailgater Rookie

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    I highly doubt that. If the OL remains healthy, he'll have monster season. Hapen to catch the tampa game last season? What coach in their right mind would keep a weapon like that on the LOS if they could help it?

    Watson could be spectacular, but lets see him do it first. He got most of the balls in camp because Graham and Branch weren't available. Brady will have to gain some more trust in him first.
  18. tailgater

    tailgater Rookie

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  19. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Exactly.

    It's odd but the way some confuse the act of catching passes with the position of WR, they make it sound like there's no reason to have anyone at WR at all, given all the options we've got RBs, TEs and LBs - all of whom can "provide depth at WR".

    I think its a given that Graham was drafted in the first round with the hopes that he could develop into an elite pass catcher, pulling in 50+ receptions a year. Although OL injuries haven't helped I don't think anyone thinks he has that level of receiving skill.

    Watson on the other hand looks like he's ready to make a big jump - and Thomas too looks like he could be an excellent receiving threat.

    I think Graham will have a better than decent year all that being said - with 2 and 3 TEs sets likely most defenses will likely expect Graham to be a blocker rather than receiver - and BB will seek to exploit that to keep defenses honest.
  20. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Watson is developing some BB speak it seems, after all, how hard is it for Thomas to be ahead of you at this point in the year when Ben was holding out his rookie year?

    Casale drops the ball on blocking again: Graham isn't just the best blocking TE, he is the best blocker. That was my observation using Tivo and TV angles, but also stated by one of the OL in an interview a month or so back.

    BB can't afford to limit Graham to blocking and Watson to receiving, not if his offense is going to execute the play the way it was drawn up and practiced. Watson was starting to show some talent as a blocker late in the season, even if he was also whiffing on his blocks, but if Graham wants a new home, Watson needs to develop his blocking to step up and fill some of that gap, the same as Thomas will be expected to work on his blocking, and route running, and defense reads, and Special Teams roles...Besides, part of the reason for using two TEs is to move them around, create mismatches, and distract the defense, can't do that very well if one TE receives and one blocks.
  21. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    That is exactly the opposite of what BB has been doing since he had blocking TE Rutledge and pass catching TE Wiggins.

    He has gone out of his way to ensure that every TE we have can both block and catch.

    This keeps the opposing defenses honest.

    To not use Graham as a pass catcher would be to signal to teh defenses that it will either be a running play or if a pass, that tehy can double Watkins because Graham will not be a receive.
  22. Keegs

    Keegs Rookie

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    i'm not a huge fan of the talk about Watson playing WR. I don't want this.
    He's far more dangerous as a tight end.

    I also love it how he played big against the Jags when we needed him too and how he never gave up against Denver, outrunning all players on our team. That really says alot about his talent, what kind of player he is, and whether he is capable of "stepping it up" like brady is when the game matters.

    The only thing that scares me about him is the few fumbles i saw scared the crap out of me. I guess thats what you can expect when you set a beast like that loose, players will be going for the ball.

    I am really happy we drafted Mills and Thomas. You can never have enough Tight ends. Always been one of my favorite positions and Ben Coates was always my favorite offensive player growing up. If one of our 2 TE picks shows up and plays, our offense is set in my opinion.
  23. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I wouldn't worry about this. Even if some fans get confused about the distinction between the positions of TE and WR, BB will not be.

    While we all saw a nice burst of speed from Watson against Denver to try to save a TD, somehow its been assumed that a 253lb guy has as much speed and endurance to stretch the field like a WR for the full extent of a game (not to mention a season.)

    Things have to be VERY bad among our WR corps for BB to be turning to Watson as a WR.

    I still hope he can catch a ton of passes in the 5-10 yard range with 5-10 yards after the catch giving Brady a Ben Coates like option (hopefully better than Ben Coates, who really only averaged about 10 yrds per reception) - but that wouldn't make Watson a WR any more than Ben Coates catching 96 passes in '94 was a WR.
  24. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah, it's not non issue. Watson may well be the #2 receiver (defined as number of catches and yards) but it'll be from the TE position. Just like when Coates was the #2 receiver behind Glenn but Jefferson was the #2 WR.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2006
  25. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    14th Dragon: I read an interview where Graham said that he had not heard from the Pats regarding an extension and he understood that that was the 'business side of things' but he didn't want to leave the Pats in that interview.

    Have you heard anything more concrete about him wanting to go elsewhere for more money or expanded role, or are you referring to the same story I am? It was in the Globe or Herald not too long ago.
  26. I'm Ron Borges?

    I'm Ron Borges? Rookie

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    He said he was the best blocking tight end. You think he's a better blocker than Logan Mankins, Dan Koppen, Matt Light and Stephen Neal? I would have to disagree but then again, you have Tivo.

    By the way, it's almost impossible to get a good look at blocking by just watching games on TV, even if you do have Tivo. The game angles only show the O-line for a second or two. Your opinion would actually hold more water if you were at the games live and were watching the O-line the whole time but if you think Graham is the best blocker on the Patriots, when he rarely blocks people one-on-one, you are crazy. He usually helps the left tackle double team guys like Freeney but according to you, the Pats should just use him to block Freeney one-on-one all the time instead. That makes no sense. Daniel Graham is a good blocker but he can't play LT. In other words, he's a good blocking tight end so I'm not sure where you are arguing what the author said unless you actually think he really is a better blocker than the entire Patriots offensive line. If that's the case, I think you need to fix the rewind button on your remote control. :D
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2006
  27. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    I also heard that O-Linemen acknowledge that Graham blocks as good as they do. However, it is correct that a TE might not look nearly as good if he were playing the Left Tackle position. Graham probably just has more energy on a play by play basis because he is more of an assist-blocker than a full time blocker.
  28. I'm Ron Borges?

    I'm Ron Borges? Rookie

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    I'm not doubting that the O-linemen said that, Graham is a great blocker but if Graham was that dominant of a blocker like Box is suggesting, you would have to think BB might have converted him to OT like the Broncos did with Matt Lepsis. Having a great OT is a million times more important than having a good blocking tight end. I am not doubting that Gragam is a great blocker and I don't think the guy who wrote that article is either. But to say that Graham is the best blocker on the team over some pretty good linemen is stretching it in my opinion. But hey, you never know, maybe BB doesn't have Tivo. :D
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2005
  29. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

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    Actually, no. In the last playoff game with the Colts, Matt Light blocked Freeney one-on-one and completely successfully the ENTIRE game except for two plays (despite what the media hyped). Ironically those two double team plays were the only ones where Freeney got thru to pressure Brady. One double team was Light and Andruzzi and Andruzzi let him roll off around him. The other double was, interestingly enough, a two TE block with one TE coming across in motion - that didn't work either.

    (As a side note, on a few plays Freeney switched from right DE position to left DE position but was blocked one-on-one without any problem there also.)
  30. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    I have watched that game a bunch of times, and think that Freeney got tons of pressure on Brady, not just two plays. I think Light is pretty average, although he plays a very tough position, for sure.
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