PFT - LJ on the block?

[satz]

Unless you want to IR maroney no way.He will want 300 + carries and we did not get maroney to run 20-30 times a year.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

We don't want/need a Larry Johnson? Ah, didn't we just love having Dillon and Maroney? Think how much better LJ is at this point in time than Dillon was last year - you don't think we would benefit a great deal from such a situation? I do. Getting LJ for no. 28 would be the steal of the draft. You can argue that we have 'needs' at other spots like safety and ILB, but isn't the Patriot's draft motto to take the best player available? If you're looking at your board at no. 28, even 24, and see that you could use that pick to 'draft' Larry Johnson how could you pass? Name the player at 24/28 you know will ever be as good as LJ is right now?

 

[RIP#40]

we dont want 2 featured backs

Is there a mouse in your pocket? I do want two featured backs. As of now, Maroney doesn't belong in the same sentence with LJ.

 

[upstater1]

I still don't see any reference to not wanting to play for a white coach. He's talking about a white coach's reaction to personal off the field stuff. Vermeil killed this guy's career and called him out in the press ridiculously. Johnson could not relate with Vermeil, and vice versa.

 

[juxtapoz15]

I saw the interview too. He didn't come out and say that he hated playing for Vermeil because he was a white caoch, but he damn well implied it.

Here are some of his comments:

"They hadn't been in a situation as a young, black athlete and know what we had to go through when we go out," Johnson told interviewer Cris Carter about the previous coaching staff under **** Vermeil. "We like to go out. We like to have fun, but then you have to worry about the guy around the corner with the gun. You've got to worry about this girl on the block. You've got to worry about your parents, your homeboys taking advantage of you. So many things you have to worry about being a young, black athlete. And to be able to have a father like mine and a coach like Herm, I was able to escape a lot of those realities and find myself in a new ray of light."

"The one thing we hate is to have somebody who is not African-American come in and say, 'You've got to do this,'" Johnson said. "No matter how you put it, it looks like you're telling me what to do and you don't know where I'm from and what I've got to live through."

This is the first time I have seen these comments and it has left me totally speechless. I live near state college and work for Penn State and I have no doubt that LJ might have to deal with some of these problems now, but he makes it sound like he has had to deal with this all of his life. State College is a college town, he makes it sound like he grew up in the inner city ghetto and had to deal with gangs, drug dealers and prostitutes his whole life.

Also I don't get where he says that he has to worry about his parents taking advantage of him. Larry Johnson Sr. has been a very established and succesfull defensive coach for PSU. Coach Johnson is a very stern and intimidating figure. I sit directly behind the defenses' bench during PSU home football games and he is one guy I would not want to mess with. He is able to put 300 pound defensive linmen in their place with a sharp glance. I just can't see coach Johnson calling LJ on the phone and asking him, "son, can you buy me a new house and a car because I don't have a job and you're rich?"

 

[PatsFanSince74]

if this were a year from now and Maroney had shown that he wasn't what we hoped he was, then i'd be interested. but, no. not now. he doesn't seem like a guy who wants to be anything other than the number one back and we, hopefully, already have one of those in Maroney.

 

[upstater1]

This is the first time I have seen these comments and it has left me totally speechless. I live near state college and work for Penn State and I have no doubt that LJ might have to deal with some of these problems now, but he makes it sound like he has had to deal with this all of his life. State College is a college town, he makes it sound like he grew up in the inner city ghetto and had to deal with gangs, drug dealers and prostitutes his whole life.

Also I don't get where he says that he has to worry about his parents taking advantage of him. Larry Johnson Sr. has been a very established and succesfull defensive coach for PSU. Coach Johnson is a very stern and intimidating figure. I sit directly behind the defenses' bench during PSU home football games and he is one guy I would not want to mess with. He is able to put 300 pound defensive linmen in their place with a sharp glance. I just can't see coach Johnson calling LJ on the phone and asking him, "son, can you buy me a new house and a car because I don't have a job and you're rich?"

You're reading too much into it. He's talking about black players in general, and their relationships wih white coaches. You have to understand, his experience has been with Paterno and Vermeil. Obviously, one guy is old as the earth's crust, and the other is getting there. You can't expect them to have much in common with the vast majority of black football players. That's what he's saying. He's stating a rather obvious point: white coaches, in general, will have less of an idea about the lives of young black men than black coaches.

This isn't a radical idea, folks.

 

[Rob0729]

You're reading too much into it. He's talking about black players in general, and their relationships wih white coaches. You have to understand, his experience has been with Paterno and Vermeil. Obviously, one guy is old as the earth's crust, and the other is getting there. You can't expect them to have much in common with the vast majority of black football players. That's what he's saying. He's stating a rather obvious point: white coaches, in general, will have less of an idea about the lives of young black men than black coaches.

This isn't a radical idea, folks.

It's still racist. What if Peyton Manning said the same exact comments about Tony Dungy? He would be crucified worse than Don Imus. At the very least, he would probably have been suspended.

You know what? An African American coach the same age **** Vermeil would probably have the same problems understanding where a young African American athlete is coming from and a younger coach like Eric Mangini probably understands a young African American athlete better than an older African American coach in many cases.

Larry Johnson was looking for an excuse for him getting in **** Vermeil's dog house. Instead of taking personal responsibility for his actions, he pulled the race card. He has admitted that he used to fall asleep in team meetings. How exactly is that a case of **** Vermeil not understanding his background.

It isn't a radical idea. Players deflect personal responsibility all the time.

 

[satz]

We don't want/need a Larry Johnson? Ah, didn't we just love having Dillon and Maroney? Think how much better LJ is at this point in time than Dillon was last year - you don't think we would benefit a great deal from such a situation? I do. Getting LJ for no. 28 would be the steal of the draft. You can argue that we have 'needs' at other spots like safety and ILB, but isn't the Patriot's draft motto to take the best player available? If you're looking at your board at no. 28, even 24, and see that you could use that pick to 'draft' Larry Johnson how could you pass? Name the player at 24/28 you know will ever be as good as LJ is right now?

Last year he complainted when they did not give him enough carries due to injury.He wants to the feature in the offence.So you are not only giving up on maroney but now you have to run a offence when brady and his new WR we spend money on the back burner and run ,run and run to keep him happy.

 

[Rob0729]

I still don't see any reference to not wanting to play for a white coach. He's talking about a white coach's reaction to personal off the field stuff. Vermeil killed this guy's career and called him out in the press ridiculously. Johnson could not relate with Vermeil, and vice versa.

Larry Johnson killed his own career. Stop blaming Vermeil. One of **** Vermeil's first moves when he became the Rams' head coach was pick Lawrence Phillips up from jail and he tried to get his life back on track. Vermeil was always a tough coach, but he was always a fair coach. Herm is a easy going guy who doesn't push his players too hard (just go back and read all the articles last preseason where Jets players complained how much harder Mangini was over Herm). LJ likes the guy who doesn't push him too hard. There were 52 other players on the team that had no apparent trouble with Vermeil. Why would Vermeil single out Johnson to ruin his career especially since Vermeil drafted him in the first round?

I never said he didn't want to play for a white coach. I said he implied that he hated playing for Vermeil because he was a white coach. There is a difference.

 

[cstjohn17]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
http://www.kansascity.com/175/story/77543.html

So, if the Chiefs were thinking about fielding offers for LJ, would you trade the 24th overall pick for him? How about the 28th? Asante?

I'd give up the 24th, a pick some people have the Pats selecting a RB with, and there's no way Marshawn Lynch is better than Larry Johnson.

Leaving the contract aside absolutely I would trade a 1st round pick for LJ. We traded a 2nd round pick for Dillion and LJ is younger and better. Dillion was not exactly the dream teammate when he left the Bengals.

Johnson is the back that we dream Maroney will become. The guy is an absolute stud in the prime of his career. If somehow the Patriots were to be "Stuck" with a proven RB and one with potential it would be a very good problem to have, somehow I think they would figure it out.

Numbers last two years
2005 Kansas City - 336 1750 20
2006 Kansas City - 416 1789 17

Putting the contract (and reality) back into the picture this doesn't happen.

 

[mgcolby]

I was high on Johnson until he ran like a little ***** against the Colts in the Playoffs. He was hesitent, didn't hit the holes and was going down with very little contact. I lost all respect for him during that game.

I understand being patient, waiting for holes to develop - but at some point you need to lower your shoulder and hit someone. He didn't do that.

I am in the no corner and it has nothing to do with good or bad teammate. Just effort and toughness.

 

[DW Toys]

I'd have to agree with you.

He's 28 years old I think. Here, he wouldn't need to pound the rock like he did in KC.

Sharing carries with Maroney would extend his career.

Something tells me they'd be looking for more than just a first rounder. The 28th and Asante seems like too much though.

Even swap? Would any of you cousins consider that? CB is a need for the Chiefs with their age at the position. They are trying to dump the slow Wesley. Remember when it was discussed that Law becomes a Safety here? How about for Herm?
Maroney and LJ would work for me.

O.K. Heres what I don't get from some of the Thread Champions. Why is it that the BPA is ok on draft day, even if when have say 4 young DE's or 5 OTS (AS EXAMPLES) to add to that roster slot? Wouldn't LJ be considered a BPA even though he is a star RB and not a rookie? Knowledgeable cousins, would anyone in the NFL not trade Joe Staley or Joe Thomas even up for LJ to get him (at a realistic offer)?
Would the Colts swap #32 even up for LJ even though they have Adai? You almost have to.
Don't think LJ is going anywhere but I's swap Assante even-up in a minute.
They say you can't have too many good players.
DW Toys

 

[cstjohn17]

I was high on Johnson until he ran like a little ***** against the Colts in the Playoffs. He was hesitent, didn't hit the holes and was going down with very little contact. I lost all respect for him during that game.

I understand being patient, waiting for holes to develop - but at some point you need to lower your shoulder and hit someone. He didn't do that.

I am in the no corner and it has nothing to do with good or bad teammate. Just effort and toughness.

That is crazy, he didn't design the game plan that called for runs up the middle against a stack front. Herm Edwards made McDaniels look like Bill Walsh.

Here are Maroney's numbers against Indy.

L. Maroney 8 carries for 13 yards, average 1.6 YPC and one of them was a 9 yarder. Take out the long run and he gained 4 yards on 7 attempts, less than .5 yards per carry. It is very very hard to average .5 YPC. He also had a fumble.

Have you lost respect for Maroney?

Have to go with DW Toys, having too many good players is not a problem.

If by some miracle the Patriots were to steal LJ for a first round pick or trade him straight up for Samuel then the entire KC management and coaching staffs should be fired on the spot.

 

[Dragda]

I'd have to agree with you.

He's 28 years old I think. Here, he wouldn't need to pound the rock like he did in KC.

Sharing carries with Maroney would extend his career.

Something tells me they'd be looking for more than just a first rounder. The 28th and Asante seems like too much though.

I think we can learn from the Redskins mistake that you don't trade a quality corner for a quality RB. Ever.

 

[mgcolby]

That is crazy, he didn't design the game plan that called for runs up the middle against a stack front. Herm Edwards made McDaniels look like Bill Walsh.

Here are Maroney's numbers against Indy.

L. Maroney 8 carries for 13 yards, average 1.6 YPC and one of them was a 9 yarder. Take out the long run and he gained 4 yards on 7 attempts, less than .5 yards per carry. It is very very hard to average .5 YPC. He also had a fumble.

Have you lost respect for Maroney?

Have to go with DW Toys, having too many good players is not a problem.

If by some miracle the Patriots were to steal LJ for a first round pick or trade him straight up for Samuel then the entire KC management and coaching staffs should be fired on the spot.

Nope, Maroney played with an injury that required surgery. LJ played like a ***** it has nothing to do with the game plan. Unless he didn't like the game plan and quit on his teammates. Either way I lost respect for the guy.

And where in my statement did I bring up LJ's numbers? I specifically talked about his toughness!

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

I think we can learn from the Redskins mistake that you don't trade a quality corner for a quality RB. Ever.

That is an Interesting point - Champ for Portis, I forgot about that...and where has the Washington benifited from it? playoffs...nope. on the other hand the Donkey's have had better post season success because of Baily...I think Dragda is right, a great corner can have more of an impact than a good runner in longevity...the fact that Asante has had one stellar year doesn't mean that will elequate to another for us this year, let alone KC.

IMO I would do it for the 28th pick, but not for the 24 or Asante, JMO.

PD.

 

[DW Toys]

I think we can learn from the Redskins mistake that you don't trade a quality corner for a quality RB. Ever.

Under normal circumstances agreed. We have Assante issues. But Bailey was not waving a sword to get out of Washington. So if the best player available for us to get something back for Little Assante is franchise type back LJ, so be it!
I think that LJ is higher up the food chain than Portis as far as NFL best is concerned.
KC is having money issues with LJ too, but if we can solve them (why can't we with Assante but maybe the train has left the station as far as love goes), worse case scenario is in training camp you know some NFL starting back goes down. Nice chip for a #1 2008 pick, I'd say!

We are talking ALL PRO RB for a one year wonder CB.
DW Toys

 

[mgcolby]

That is crazy, he didn't design the game plan that called for runs up the middle against a stack front. Herm Edwards made McDaniels look like Bill Walsh.

Not to go to far off topic but that is a dumb comment. The offense scored 27 points in an AFC championship game on the road. You cannot put any part of that loss on the Offense or McDaniels.

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

...We are talking ALL PRO RB for a one year wonder CB.
DW Toys

I understand the thinking and It makes sense, but will we hit another home run with LJ like dillon? or does KC know something about LJ that we don't...
Why would they consider trading him to us? seems odd.

Besides, How will LJ split carries with Maroney when he had trouble splitting time with Priest Holmes? I know he will want to be the number 1 featured back here, not sure how that will play out..will we trade away maroney because he might be injury prone? thoughts....

PD.