Peyton Manning vrs Joe Montana.

[Ring 6]

Montana's timing and accuracy was the best I've ever seen.

Marino had the quickest release to go along with a cannon arm.

Peyton to me is the best at pre-snap reads. He knows where to throw the ball even before the snap.

Brady IMO is the best at making quick and correct decisions based on what the defense is doing after the snap of the ball.

Agree with yours, and i will give another for each.
Montana was the best ever at throwing on the run.
Marino had the best intermediate (12-18 yard) pass in memory.
Manning is the best I've seen at dominating bad defenses.
Brady has by far the highest proportion of success on critical drives.

 

[MassPats38]

Oh, good. Another "Peyton Manning sucks" thread.

Elway was at his best when he lost Super Bowl after Super Bowl. He won when some random guy named Davis carried him to the titles. Elway therefore sucks because great QBs like Eli Manning can, having leaned on their defense the whole season, pull his head out of his arse for 3 to 5 games of the year. That is greatness. It's not like the useless stats he compiles have any say in teams getting in the playoffs. Why don't we see more of Eli's greatness in the post-season, by the way?

How many Hall of Famers played with Montana? How many played with Bradshaw? How many played with Aikman? Last time I checked, football is a team sport and having players maxing out the Madden numbers makes the QB role that much less important. Brady's greatness is that he has done more with less. If you raise these QBs on your shoulders based on rings alone, then you marginalize was Brady has done. People suggesting great QBs must win all or even 1 title lose sight of the fact that a QB cannot carry the entire team, and titles are often won in the front office.

And Barry Sanders must blow too. He couldn't carry his team to a title. E. Smith did. Payton did. Let's strike his name from the discussion of greatest RBs to play the game. No rings. As an FYI, I still hear Marino mentioned as one of the greats, even without the rings and with Favre passing his numbers. Marino was good enough to beat the '85 Bears with 270 yards and 3 TDs to 1 INT when nobody could move the ball on likely the best defense in NFL history. But his absence of rings had nothing to do with the amount the Dolphins organization paid out versus the Niners, the Cowboys and the Redskins, or the fact those organizations have won nothing in the salary cap era.

I get it. You don't like Peyton Manning. If you've actually read responses to your Manning diatribes, he doesn't have many fans here. It isn't a problem with people swallowing media chum and being led down the primrose path while you possess the unique ability to see his faults. It is the ability to understand that there are 16-19 games in a season, and players are judged by the whole body of work, not just 1 game at the end of the year.

By your logic, Brady has had multiple opportunities to excel in the playoffs and just hasn't got it done by winning the title every time. He therefore will never be as good as Montana or Bradshaw because he has lost title games. Brady is better than both of those greats. I believe Brady is the GOAT, and your blood hate for Manning and attempts to diminish Manning indirectly diminish his body of work. The fact that you play on a great 'team' does not equate to individual greatness.

 

[chasa]

So to answer the OP's point, no its not because he gets to piggy back Brady it's because his stats are INSANE and he still has another season or two to pad them.

And 10 years from now Stafford will eclipse both thier numbers, a rookie qb will have a 6000 yard rookie season, and 20 years after that everyone will still be talking about who has as many superbowls as brady and montana.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Not to take anything away from Montana but he also had some ridiculous talent around him. I think there's too much focus on the QB rather than the offense that he's a part of, take a look at the outstanding job the O-line does in Denver, take a look how open those receivers are. That offense is great yet people just credit Manning. If TFB had that O-line/weapons I think he'd already have 60tds by this point, and I think Manning would be putting up garbage numbers here with that noodle arm.

A great receiver can make a QB look a whole lot better than he is.

That might be true but it's nonsense in Montana's case. Just like Brady and Manning can elevate a receiver, Montana could do the same. If you watched how he played, I don't know how anyone could say he wasn't the driving force behind that team. That's my opinion but I know it's shared by a vast majority of people who watched him play. He was "Joe Cool" and they feared him more than anyone else on that team or in the league and there was no dispute. There was no "pressure him and he crumbles" or "put him in cold weather". There was only trying to match his play and hope he didn't make it to the playoffs because he raised his play there.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Peyton is better than Montana as a QB, OP like most posters is hating on Peyton without using their brain.

Even if you have Montana ahead it is still a close one, its arguable regardless.

 

[Deus Irae]

Peyton is better than Montana as a QB, OP like most posters is hating on Peyton without using their brain.

Even if you have Montana ahead it is still a close one, its arguable regardless.

Comedy attempt?

 

[SVN]

I dont hate manning. I just hate how he and his familly manipulates the media and media just needs an excuse to call him the greatest thing since sliced bread.
When manning throws 5 or 7Tds- "He is the greatest to play the game. He is like a coach on the field. He is the offensive coordinator. He calls his own plays...."

When manning loses like in the playoffs - "His defense couldnt help him out ,the <winning team> held the ball for over 40 mins. John fox called 3 running plays insteading asking manning to throw the ball to get the first down to run out the clock because you know he is not the coach on the field now, its john fox. we had some protection issues"


This bothers me more than anything else.

 

[captain stone]

Peyton is better than Montana as a QB, OP like most posters is hating on Peyton without using their brain.

Worst...post...ever.

 

[Ring 6]

Peyton is better than Montana as a QB, OP like most posters is hating on Peyton without using their brain.

Even if you have Montana ahead it is still a close one, its arguable regardless.

You just devalued every football opinion I ever read of yours in the future.

 

[Snake Eyes]

That might be true but it's nonsense in Montana's case. Just like Brady and Manning can elevate a receiver, Montana could do the same. If you watched how he played, I don't know how anyone could say he wasn't the driving force behind that team. That's my opinion but I know it's shared by a vast majority of people who watched him play. He was "Joe Cool" and they feared him more than anyone else on that team or in the league and there was no dispute. There was no "pressure him and he crumbles" or "put him in cold weather". There was only trying to match his play and hope he didn't make it to the playoffs because he raised his play there.

It's true in every case, did you notice how TFB's game took off from in 07? He had better material to work with. If the receiver isn't getting open the QB is going to have a long day, doesn't matter which QB it is, Montana included.

 

[Froob]

Peyton is better than Montana as a QB, OP like most posters is hating on Peyton without using their brain.

Even if you have Montana ahead it is still a close one, its arguable regardless.

Manning has thrown 3 more picks in the super bowl than Montana in half as many games...

 

[Joker]

wait...I thought Ian posted strict rules against the making of profanity laced threads...Peyton Manning vs. Joe Montana??????????????

wash your mouth out with soap.

 

[1960Pats]

Like all self respecting patriot fans I consider Brady as clearly superior to Manning and in a class with well basically Joe and no one else. In the last thread bashing Manning I made a list of my top 10 all time QB's and Joe was 1, Brady 2, and Manning 10. All of that said the people who rate Manning as highly as they do are not crazy or completely wrong, they just judge QB play on different criteria. Based purely on ability to throw the football, which is to some people (not me) the entire job of a QB Manning destroys Montana in every important stat.

Took the five mins to google stats off NFL.com

Manning 238 games played, 8,373 attempts with 5,475 completions for a 65.4%. 64,298 yards at an average of 7.7 yards per attempt. 483 TD's with 219 ints which is an int % of 2.6. All of that leads to a QB rating of 96.9

Montana 192 games played, 5,391 attempts with 3,409 completions for a 63.2%. 40,551 yards at an average of 7.5 yards per attempt. 273 TD's with 139 ints which is an int % of 2.6. All of that leads to a QB rating of 92.3

Manning has more completions then Montana has attempts! Not to mention how much more durable Manning is having played in almost 3 seasons worth more games. For all the talk about how much more efficient Montana was they have the same TD:INT ratio which I was shocked to discover. So to sum up over an entire career Payton puts the ball up more, further down the field, for more TD's all of which say he is a better passer then Joe Montana and one of, if not the, greatest of all time.

So to answer the OP's point, no its not because he gets to piggy back Brady it's because his stats are INSANE and he still has another season or two to pad them.

I don't need to look at meaningless statistics to determine who is the better QB between Joe Montana and Peyton Manning. I think BB says it best. Stats are for losers. I'll take Montana, just like most people would.

The odd thing about Peyton Manning is that in spite of all the folks who want to throw his name in there as the GOAT, he doesn't even crack the top ten for clutch QBs. If you wanted a QB to lead your team in the biggest game of them all, most people would pick in an order something like this;

Montana, Elway, Brady, Staubach, Unitas, Starr, Stabler, Graham, Young Aikman and Bradshaw. You could also throw in Marino and current QBs like Brees and Rogers and they'd probably rank ahead of Peyton too.

There's also another name that disappears from those type of clutch QB lists beside Manning's. You won't find anyone wanting to put everything on the line with Brett Favre as their QB either.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

peyton is better than montana as a qb, op like most posters is hating on peyton without using their brain.

Even if you have montana ahead it is still a close one, its arguable regardless.

hahahahhaha

 

[PATS16N0]

I think people that are actually discussing Peyton v Montana with a straight face missed the entire purpose of this thread.

 

[wolverinejoe80]

dear kiddo,

football is an ultimate team game. Manning is a proven winner and a great competitor. yes, he lacks the clutch factor, but you can't simply ignore all the things peyton has accomplished. 5 mvp is 5 mvp. he is a threat to win an mvp every year. ask any defensive coordinator. most will tell you how great manning is, and how nightmare his offense can be.

yes, peyton manning is no tom brady. IMO, brady is the greatest. not only he has the resume, he also has the stats. and he has the clutch factor. and IMO brady is simply better QB when the team needs him the most.

but Joe Cool? talk about all time loaded team in a non salary cap era. do you know how great his team really was? 84 niners or 89 niners were just sick. it's like putting together top 3 teams into 1. don't you think peyton would win more than 1 SB if his defense was not only the most talented by a mile, but also is coached by the best?

again, please stop ignoring the team factor. Joe Montana can't win 4 SBs if he played for NY Jets.


my goat list

1. brady
2. peyton
3. joe cool (even though i find him overrated, but he is still the best of the past)
4. johnny u
5. dan marino


today's defense is more complicated and complex than ever before. peyton dissects defenses like surgeon(well, unless he plays us or chargers, lol)
dude is a professor. put him in the niners and he would not only win multiple SBs, but he would put up dan marino stats in 80's easily.

yes, only knock on peyton is that he comes up short in a big game, but had he had jerry rice and that sick D, he would've been bailed out and didn't have to force things to make things happen.

 

[Deus Irae]

dear kiddo,

football is an ultimate team game. Manning is a proven winner and a great competitor. yes, he lacks the clutch factor, but you can't simply ignore all the things peyton has accomplished. 5 mvp is 5 mvp. he is a threat to win an mvp every year. ask any defensive coordinator. most will tell you how great manning is, and how nightmare his offense can be.

yes, peyton manning is no tom brady. IMO, brady is the greatest. not only he has the resume, he also has the stats. and he has the clutch factor. and IMO brady is simply better QB when the team needs him the most.

but Joe Cool? talk about all time loaded team in a non salary cap era. do you know how great his team really was? 84 niners or 89 niners were just sick. it's like putting together top 3 teams into 1. don't you think peyton would win more than 1 SB if his defense was not only the most talented by a mile, but also is coached by the best?

again, please stop ignoring the team factor. Joe Montana can't win 4 SBs if he played for NY Jets.


my goat list

1. brady
2. peyton
3. joe cool (even though i find him overrated, but he is still the best of the past)
4. johnny u
5. dan marino


today's defense is more complicated and complex than ever before. peyton dissects defenses like surgeon(well, unless he plays us or chargers, lol)
dude is a professor. put him in the niners and he would not only win multiple SBs, but he would put up dan marino stats in 80's easily.

yes, only knock on peyton is that he comes up short in a big game, but had he had jerry rice and that sick D, he would've been bailed out and didn't have to force things to make things happen.

Peyton Manning has spent most of his NFL career with a stacked offense. He's also had a defense with excellent pass rushers for much of that time, allowing him the luxury of facing teams that must deal with even more adversity once they fall behyind. The notion that Montana had a stacked team but Manning hasn't is absurd.

Montana's a top 5 QB. Manning's a top 9-15 QB. Putting Manning above Montana is insane.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I have someone telling me that manning beats out montana and brady. And he is 100%serious.

 

[PATS16N0]

dear kiddo,

football is an ultimate team game. Manning is a proven winner and a great competitor. yes, he lacks the clutch factor, but you can't simply ignore all the things peyton has accomplished. 5 mvp is 5 mvp. he is a threat to win an mvp every year. ask any defensive coordinator. most will tell you how great manning is, and how nightmare his offense can be.

yes, peyton manning is no tom brady. IMO, brady is the greatest. not only he has the resume, he also has the stats. and he has the clutch factor. and IMO brady is simply better QB when the team needs him the most.

but Joe Cool? talk about all time loaded team in a non salary cap era. do you know how great his team really was? 84 niners or 89 niners were just sick. it's like putting together top 3 teams into 1. don't you think peyton would win more than 1 SB if his defense was not only the most talented by a mile, but also is coached by the best?

again, please stop ignoring the team factor. Joe Montana can't win 4 SBs if he played for NY Jets.


my goat list

1. brady
2. peyton
3. joe cool (even though i find him overrated, but he is still the best of the past)
4. johnny u
5. dan marino


today's defense is more complicated and complex than ever before. peyton dissects defenses like surgeon(well, unless he plays us or chargers, lol)
dude is a professor. put him in the niners and he would not only win multiple SBs, but he would put up dan marino stats in 80's easily.

yes, only knock on peyton is that he comes up short in a big game, but had he had jerry rice and that sick D, he would've been bailed out and didn't have to force things to make things happen.

Anyone who boasts about MVP awards has a serious problem with logic.
Why don't you add "most media praised" to his resume as well?

MVP's are arbitrary. They're subjective. Their pomp and ceremony.

They aren't championships.

You don't need to overcome the best defense in the league in a 2 minute drill to get an MVP.

It's a meaningless award based on opinion. You could let Patriot fans decide the league MVP and Tom Brady would win it every single season.

Big deal?

Is Kanye West a superior musician to Mozart because he has more grammy awards? lol. Please stop with the MVP's.

I stopped reading after you mentioned MVP because it became evidence after that that your opinion is worthless to me.

 

[stcjones]

This Kramer GIF is the best response that I have ever seen in response to a thread like this. Brilliant sir or Madam....absolutely Brilliant....


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