Peter King MMQB - Patriots & Lance Briggs?!?

[Maroney TD]

This is an easy shot and not terribly relevant. Andy Katzenmoyer actually didn't play poorly at all in N.E., and got injured - which is possible for a guy like Briggs, Willis, Beason, Colvin, anyone. Also, even if Katz HAD been a bad player (which, again, he wasn't), BB/Pioli didn't draft him.

I agree completely, Karzenmoyer's rookie stats were 79 tackles, 64 solo, 3.5 sacks, and 1 int. He was a beast and its really unfortunate for his injury because I think he would have had a solid career. I agree that its not really relevent though.

I guess we shouldn't have drafted Maroney last year because you know how is Robert Edwards doing these days? Still racking up those rushing titles?

Freak injuries happen which is part of football. Plus, just because one thing happened to a player doesn't mean it will happen to another player because they play the same position.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is an easy shot and not terribly relevant. Andy Katzenmoyer actually didn't play poorly at all in N.E., and got injured - which is possible for a guy like Briggs, Willis, Beason, Colvin, anyone. Also, even if Katz HAD been a bad player (which, again, he wasn't), BB/Pioli didn't draft him.

1.) Look to the quote:

I'd rather go younger in the draft for a round one LB we can have, on short-ish money, for a decade.

2.) Look the the response poster #2 gave regarding Colvin getting hurt.

 

[patfanken]

On the surface I came to this thread thinking that this is just another pie in the sky rumor just to pass the time during a dry time of the off season. However there are some alluring possibilities as long as a couple of "IFS" can be answered in the positive, they are:

1. IF he has the capability to play in our version of the 3-4. There is no questioning his talent as a player. However as Pioli has often said. He is building a championship TEAM, not assembling the best talent. BB et al would have to feel he could be an IMPACT player to give up the pick and the money, not just a good player.

2. IF he has the willingness to come into this system.

3. IF the Bears are willing to make a deal

The good news is that the Pats clearly have a good relationship with the Bears and their FO, we have already done a few deals. They did us a favor trading Ted Washington, we did them a favor moving ahead of them for a good pick in 2003 to get Warren. BTW I believe that deal was done because someone below the Bears made them an offer to jump up and possibly take Warren from us. The Bears let us know, and gave us the chance to make an offer of our own. I think the deal was we swapped picks and gave them a 3 while we got a 4 or 5 of theirs

The Bad news, IMHO is that a deal like this isn't going to go down until well into training camp, most likely into September, if Briggs truly looks like he is willing to hold out.... much like we saw with Branch.

AT THAT POINT, when it looks to Chicago like Briggs is willing to hold out to the 10th game, and be a severe distraction would they be likely to look for a trade, like a #1. I can't see it happening in APRIL. Too much can happen to turn the situation around

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree completely, Karzenmoyer's rookie stats were 79 tackles, 64 solo, 3.5 sacks, and 1 int. He was a beast and its really unfortunate for his injury because I think he would have had a solid career. I agree that its not really relevent though.

I guess we shouldn't have drafted Maroney last year because you know how is Robert Edwards doing these days? Still racking up those rushing titles?

Freak injuries happen which is part of football. Plus, just because one thing happened to a player doesn't mean it will happen to another player because they play the same position.

I agree 100%. See my previous post for a reference about why I made the post.

 

[DW Toys]

Your plan B is close to one of my plans posted on here "Maybe the best option" (I LOL when people started calling it "the sebman trade", in other threads, good stuff.)

Why do you keep calling me cousin?

Mind if I call you chief, or gus? LOL

- SP

Sebman, Whatever please you just plum tickles me to death!
DW Toys (or Gus if you prefer)

PS. Breer wrote this in his column today. Maybe this eliminates the Briggs buzz. Never knew the Pats had talked to Hartwells agent. According to most it was one sided but now there is a new light on the subject. A one year stab at him works for me:

"There are options there. Veteran Edgerton Hartwell has had preliminary talks with the team, is willing to come in on a one-year deal and has the size and 3-4 experience to make it work, so long as he stays healthy.

Hartwell (still just 28) could provide at least an early-down stopgap, if a rookie's drafted somewhere. That rookie, in fact, could well be Ole Miss' Patrick Willis with the 24th pick."

 

[TheSeymonsta]

particularly considering the fact the guy is a known quantity. If he can be had for a pick, the Pats will jump on him......and everyone on this board will be ecstatic.

The guy is known as a commodity in the Bears system...

Not everyone. I dont want a player that turns down a 33 million dollar deal and then bit$hes about being franchised.

It makes no sense. He is no Brian Urlacher.

 

[TheSeymonsta]

Hartwell (still just 28) could provide at least an early-down stopgap, if a rookie's drafted somewhere. That rookie, in fact, could well be Ole Miss' Patrick Willis with the 24th pick."

This would be ideal to me.

 

[NE39]

It makes no sense. He is no Brian Urlacher.

True, but is that the biggest criticism you can come up with?

When I watch the guy play, I see a player who is all over the field and a great tackler. The guy makes a ton of plays on backs coming out of the backfield and covering seam routes.

IMO, Briggs is a top LB and a guy who is a good fit for the Pats because his strengths would shore up some of the Pats biggest defensive weaknesses.

Granted, in a 3-4 he would probably be limited to the weakside because he wouldn't have as many gap responsibilities, but I'll let the coaching staff figure that out.

Anyone who watches this guy play and doesn't come away impressed needs to look again. Briggs is a player, I don't care what system it is. He isn't Cato June.

 

[Kontradiction]

1. He said he didn't want to play in a 3-4 defense.

2. He's too pricey. I'd rather just pick up a fresh face in the draft that can come in here and light it up for cheap.

3. With all the off-the-field problems he's causing in Chicago, he doesn't really seem like a Patriot. What's he going to do the next time he wants more money? Make a mockery of himself and us?

4. I still think he's kind of overrated. A LB on the Bears squad that simply benifitted from lining up next to Urlacher.

 

[TheSeymonsta]

1. He said he didn't want to play in a 3-4 defense.

2. He's too pricey. I'd rather just pick up a fresh face in the draft that can come in here and light it up for cheap.

3. With all the off-the-field problems he's causing in Chicago, he doesn't really seem like a Patriot. What's he going to do the next time he wants more money? Make a mockery of himself and us?

4. I still think he's kind of overrated. A LB on the Bears squad that simply benifitted from lining up next to Urlacher.

This pretty much covers everything....

 

[sebman2112]

Sebman, Whatever please you just plum tickles me to death!
DW Toys (or Gus if you prefer)

PS. Breer wrote this in his column today. Maybe this eliminates the Briggs buzz. Never knew the Pats had talked to Hartwells agent. According to most it was one sided but now there is a new light on the subject. A one year stab at him works for me:

"There are options there. Veteran Edgerton Hartwell has had preliminary talks with the team, is willing to come in on a one-year deal and has the size and 3-4 experience to make it work, so long as he stays healthy.

Hartwell (still just 28) could provide at least an early-down stopgap, if a rookie's drafted somewhere. That rookie, in fact, could well be Ole Miss' Patrick Willis with the 24th pick."

Hartwell is actually my favorite potential (on the cheap) FA pickup.
I talked about this on ESPN when people first rumored the Patriots had interest in Hartwell. He has been injured quite a bit these past two years, but I think he started getting back to his old level of play at the end of '06. In week 16 he had something like (off the top of my head) 12 tackles, and in week 17 he had 7 tackles with one FF. I also think at least one of his injuries was kind of freakish, and not something that will likely happen again. Plus he played with an undersized/speed D-Line a lot of his time in Atlanta, so he didn't really have any big bodies keeping blocks off him, and had to make a lot of plays. In NE's defense he'll be playing behind Wilfork, Warren, and Seymour, and be able to just stick to his assaignment. I actually think he could do very well in NE's defense, especially considering his turn around at the end of '06, and his play prior to the injuries. With a small contract he wouldn't be that much of a risk pickup, even if he does get injured, or isn't effective.

 

[Ring 6]

Everything else aside, if we can afford him, why spend that much at a positin we already have Thomas, Colvin, and Vrabel?
Its not a matter of affording him, and he is worth the money, its a matter of if that money is spent the best way.
Example:
If we could afford Peyton Manning as a FA, wouldnt that large amount of $$ be better spent, and get a better return than spending it on a guy to sit on the bench and watch brady?

 

[SamBam39]

My guess is this is not going to happen.

I think the prospect of adding briggs is intriguing, and if it did happen, alot of us would be very excited about his talent being added.

but I also think he'd be a big cap hit, and we've been adding alot of salary lately, and I just think they're going to keep the 2 first rounders and build for the future with young, talented players who are not expensive right now.

just the way it seems to me. I think they'd be straining the cap too much to add another big, big contract right now. Plus, they'd be pushing a current starter out of the lineup to play him. A rookie can come in and be happy for whatever minutes he gets.

I'm just hoping they extend asante soon and make some great choices on draft day!

 

[moosekill]

I think some people here would rather draft a big pile of cow dung then trade a draft pick for a pro bowl player.

It used to be that you could sign your high draft picks for a long time for short money, it isn't like that anymore. The bargains are in the lower rounds, and ANY DRAFT PICK IS A CRAP SHOOT!!!!!!

Now you pay lots of money for a first round pick that may or may not pan out. The Patriots may have the opportunity to get one of the best linebackers in the league. They have a pick they could use, and they have the salary cap available, why wouldn't they use it.

Furthermore, how have all of the BB's recent linebacker pick made out? Hmmm, would you rather have pretty much a sure thing, or would you rather play craps?

 

[sebman2112]

I think some people here would rather draft a big pile of cow dung then trade a draft pick for a pro bowl player.

It used to be that you could sign your high draft picks for a long time for short money, it isn't like that anymore. The bargains are in the lower rounds, and ANY DRAFT PICK IS A CRAP SHOOT!!!!!!

Now you pay lots of money for a first round pick that may or may not pan out. The Patriots may have the opportunity to get one of the best linebackers in the league. They have a pick they could use, and they have the salary cap available, why wouldn't they use it.

Furthermore, how have all of the BB's recent linebacker pick made out? Hmmm, would you rather have pretty much a sure thing, or would you rather play craps?

it is a sure thing that Briggs is a good player, but it is not a sure thing he would play at the same level in NE's defense, because the players and scheme are completely different. I think he probably could mind you, but this cannot be stated as a certainty.

 

[TheSeymonsta]

Furthermore, how have all of the BB's recent linebacker pick made out? Hmmm, would you rather have pretty much a sure thing, or would you rather play craps?

You cant polish a turd.....

If he would spend a high pick on a LB the likelihood of them working out would be a lot better.

 

[NE39]

1. He said he didn't want to play in a 3-4 defense.

Actually, he responded "Not really", when asked if he liked the 3-4 scheme. His reasoning was he played ILB in a 3-4 scheme at the University of Arizona and felt it cost him in the draft. However, he didn't categorically rule out playing in the scheme, and he would fit nicely on the WS where his range and athletic ability would be a great benefit.

2. He's too pricey. I'd rather just pick up a fresh face in the draft that can come in here and light it up for cheap.

Personally, I think it a far better deal to pay top money to a top player than pay less money for a lesser player. It is possible that a draft pick could come in and be as good as Briggs, but it is long odds that will happen. Briggs is a proven Pro Bowl-level player. I'll take a 100% shot at picking up a top LB over a 1% chance you can draft one, it is worth the money.

3. With all the off-the-field problems he's causing in Chicago, he doesn't really seem like a Patriot. What's he going to do the next time he wants more money? Make a mockery of himself and us?

Off-field problems? Because he is unhappy with his contract situation? On the team he has been a leader and a lockerroom guy. He came in as a low pick and feels Chicago jerked him around on an extension.

Was Richard Seymour an off-field problem when he refused to show up unless he got an extension? The business side of the league can get messy, but it is separate from the game and what the player brings.

4. I still think he's kind of overrated. A LB on the Bears squad that simply benifitted from lining up next to Urlacher.

I disagree wholeheartedly. When I watch the games he is all over the place and is great in coverage. He may benefit from playing next to Urlacher, but he will be playing with some pretty good players in NE as well. You can't take his accomplishments away, he has been a great player.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm more intrigued by this: "Directly and indirectly, Tom Brady had an awful lot to do with Donte' Stallworth signing with the Patriots. They were text-messaging each other constantly. They're going to have a tremendous relationship. They're both really excited about working together.''

 

[PaulNEPats]

Ehhhh I don't see this happening. I wish it would, but adding another high-level contract, which is what it would take to retain briggs, is only going to hurt resigning Wilfork, Warren, and other big-time players already in the Patriots System.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

For the signing bonus, a long term contract, and to get out of Chicago, I think he would say "how high" to BB's "jump."

For the record, I make this trade in a heartbeat.

do the Pats even have that much cap room?

I say draft a lb for cheap money at #28, plus you scoop up the best lb right before the colts are set to take.