Peter King MMQB - Patriots & Lance Briggs?!?

[sebman2112]

I understood the question before, I just couldn't believe you were asking it. It's like choosing whether you want one million dollars cash or one million powerball tickets.

Keeping in mind that neither has played in a 3-4, one has proven he can dominate in the NFL, and one has not. You're either paying for a productive football player or you're paying for a guy you hope can be a productive football player.

I would like Briggs, but it is a fair question.

First, yes Briggs has been very effective in the NFL, but that was in a Tampa 2 defense, so we don't know for sure he would have the same success in NE's defense. I think he would, but trading for him does not equal taking 1M cash over 1M powerball tickets, when considering him over Willis, especially because of the big contract that would be attached. Again, I'll take Briggs, but his performing on the same level in a 3-4 defense, especially one where you have to stick to lane assignments (NE's) is not a certainty.

 

[DaBruinz]

You missed three people...

Gerrett Mills $390,625
Dan Stevenson (cut) $47,000
Jeremy Mincey (cut) $22,733
So, $3,595,437 + 390,625 + 47,000 + 22,733 = $4,050,795
I was off by .2M (I was trying to remember off the top of my head.)

As part of the ROOKIE POOL, the full salary cap hits for Stevenson and Mincey count, not just the amounts that were remaining when they were cut. The Pats rookie pool last year was $4.617 million.

 

[BelichickFan]

The rookie pool is cute but I'm not sure what the point is. It'll cost us no more than $2M against the cap . . . that's all that matters isn't it ?

 

[DW Toys]

Very serious....and I don't understand why you think it wouldn't be. Briggs is a Tampa 2/4-3 LB who has been very effective in Chicago's defensive scheme, but that scheme is very different from NE's, and you would be asking him to play a completely differently role, if you moved him to ILB. Personally I think he could make that move, and would be a beast in NE's system. But, this type of move still merits the above questions.

Willis is a 4-3 ILB with speed and size, who you would be taking a chance on by placing him in a different defensive scheme than he is used to. He would only get a rookie contract along with the first round pick.

Thomas cost you at least a first round pick, and likely at least 20M guaranteed, to switch him over to a position he is not used to, and has said he might not be interested in.....
Now do you understand the questioning?

Cousin,
Believe you meant Briggs in your last PG? Briggs would play LS to get out of Chicago. He wants to step out of the shadow of Urlacher to take on more responsibility on his shoulders. Not because he is a primadonna as the media have twisted this.
Could Briggs play MLB with Teddy? Yes, without any doubt, no question. He's got the size and speed that is a perfect pickup for NE. He is a sideline to sideline LB.

Draft instead? I love Willis, but a draft choice is no sure thing. This years draft class is terrible! Please read up on the offerings. Last year there were 65 or 70 players that you can use the return figure of 80%, who can or are now established NFL players. This year I see maybe 35-40. The first rounders this year are second and third rounders the last couple of years. With the garbage out there in the draft this year, I suppose the Pats are in a perfect position to trade up for the few good ones, take some SOG's with the compensation picks and call it a day. Why spend CAP money for draft signings on stiffs when you can get the proven deal through FA though? It think The Godfather and SP took a shot at the players they signed in FA because they had CAP money to spend, Mr. Kraft promised they would spend to the CAP and finally, this draft is NOT good. Hell, if we can't cut a deal for Briggs, go up with every damn choice we have that we can move to get Landry and Willis. It cuts down (perhaps) our draft salary CAP needs, and we still get to look at depth with some fairly high comp picks.

Cousins, Plan "B". Would you not trade our third and perhaps forth (comp pic should be in there somewhere) or even our extra sixth to move up to get the only two defense players that are worth anything and fill some crucial spots with Willis and Landry? Merriweather? Please! Read up on this kid. Nelson? Can't tackle. Beason? O.K. he's not bad, but a third rounder last year. Every CB has an issue for a fit.

Back to Briggs. Briggs would come to understand that everyone here has a job and no one is the main guy. He doesn't have that obstacle to climb. You can even have Vrable or Thomas jump into ILB in a pinch to rotate. I'd give up a #one and maybe a player like the soon-to-be-injured, Wilson (come on Geno fans> He's fading fast and is in his final contract year anyway. You know he will wind up missing some games this year as usual) or the soon-to-be-you'd-better-make-it-on-another-team, Marquis Hill as mini-perks (the Bears need both positions).

Briggs would be a hell of an ILB
DW Toys

 

[DaBruinz]

The rookie pool is cute but I'm not sure what the point is. It'll cost us no more than $2M against the cap . . . that's all that matters isn't it ?

The rookie pool cost us 4.6 million against the cap last year and it may or may not be right around the same spot this year. It all depends on what the Pats end up with for picks.

 

[sebman2112]

Cousin,
Believe you meant Briggs in your last PG? Briggs would play LS to get out of Chicago. He wants to step out of the shadow of Urlacher to take on more responsibility on his shoulders. Not because he is a primadonna as the media have twisted this.
Could Briggs play MLB with Teddy? Yes, without any doubt, no question. He's got the size and speed that is a perfect pickup for NE. He is a sideline to sideline LB.

Draft instead? I love Willis, but a draft choice is no sure thing. This years draft class is terrible! Please read up on the offerings. Last year there were 65 or 70 players that you can use the return figure of 80%, who can or are now established NFL players. This year I see maybe 35-40. The first rounders this year are second and third rounders the last couple of years. With the garbage out there in the draft this year, I suppose the Pats are in a perfect position to trade up for the few good ones, take some SOG's with the compensation picks and call it a day. Why spend CAP money for draft signings on stiffs when you can get the proven deal through FA though? It think The Godfather and SP took a shot at the players they signed in FA because they had CAP money to spend, Mr. Kraft promised they would spend to the CAP and finally, this draft is NOT good. Hell, if we can't cut a deal for Briggs, go up with every damn choice we have that we can move to get Landry and Willis. It cuts down (perhaps) our draft salary CAP needs, and we still get to look at depth with some fairly high comp picks.

Cousins, Plan "B". Would you not trade our third and perhaps forth (comp pic should be in there somewhere) or even our extra sixth to move up to get the only two defense players that are worth anything and fill some crucial spots with Willis and Landry? Merriweather? Please! Read up on this kid. Nelson? Can't tackle. Beason? O.K. he's not bad, but a third rounder last year. Every CB has an issue for a fit.

Back to Briggs. Briggs would come to understand that everyone here has a job and no one is the main guy. He doesn't have that obstacle to climb. You can even have Vrable or Thomas jump into ILB in a pinch to rotate. I'd give up a #one and maybe a player like the soon-to-be-injured, Wilson (come on Geno fans> He's fading fast and is in his final contract year anyway. You know he will wind up missing some games this year as usual) or the soon-to-be-you'd-better-make-it-on-another-team, Marquis Hill as mini-perks (the Bears need both positions).

Briggs would be a hell of an ILB
DW Toys

What's the point of this? You just told me a bunch of stuff I have already been saying on these forums concerning this draft class, and made it seem like you were informing me of something....what I don't know.

 

[cstjohn17]

I find it interesting that people have so quickly over-looked that Briggs doesn't want to play in a 3-4 defense.

What mankes any of you think that Briggs would want to play for the Patriots when we run, Primarly, a 3-4 base?

To quote TO's "publicist", Briggs would have 7 million-a-year and $20 million guaranteed reasons to sign with the Pats. The lure of sticking it to the Bears and winning may be enough as well. Briggs likely believes his comments, he would put up better numbers in a 4-3 but it is the same as a WR saying they want 20 passes a game.

Who knows what the numbers would end up at or if it could even happen but Briggs would be a good fit a WILB. This would push Bruschi over to SILB or even as abackup at both spots. A high class problem to have.

I don't think it has any chance of happening but the way the offseason has gone who knows.

Still the question remains who will start at SILB?

 

[zippo59]

I want nothing to do with Briggs.

 

[BelichickFan]

The rookie pool cost us 4.6 million against the cap last year and it may or may not be right around the same spot this year.

Miguel says it cost us $1.5M and I'm putting my money on Miguel on this one :

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=366660&postcount=26

"Miguel
Moderator

Re: 13.9 million
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBamsFan
This year we'll probably have 9-10 picks when you include the compensation picks, what do you see as our projected cost entering the draft?
I hate to guess but I would say that the net cost will be around the same as last year - $1.5 million."

 

[sebman2112]

Miguel says it cost us $1.5M and I'm putting my money on Miguel on this one :

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=366660&postcount=26

"Miguel
Moderator

Re: 13.9 million
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBamsFan
This year we'll probably have 9-10 picks when you include the compensation picks, what do you see as our projected cost entering the draft?
I hate to guess but I would say that the net cost will be around the same as last year - $1.5 million."

That's net, after factoring in rooks replacing vets with bigger contracts. Not the actual cap it takes to sign your picks.

 

[BelichickFan]

That's net, after factoring in rooks replacing vets with bigger contracts. Not the actual cap it takes to sign your picks.

************, I know that. For the love of God. The same thing happens this year, every draft pick knocks off a current player which wipes out a couple million or so. Who f*cking cares how much the picks sign for if the NET is $1.5M.

ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE NET RESULT OF SIGNEES vs. EX PLAYERS AND THAT WILL BE NO MORE THAN $2M.

 

[TheSeymonsta]

No real interest in Briggs.

He doesent have as much talent as Colvin and Colvin hasnt lit up the stat board since hes been here so I rather have a draft pick than add another "Branch" type player.

 

[sebman2112]

************, I know that. For the love of God. The same thing happens this year, every draft pick knocks off a current player which wipes out a couple million or so. Who f*cking cares how much the picks sign for if the NET is $1.5M.

ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE NET RESULT OF SIGNEES vs. EX PLAYERS AND THAT WILL BE NO MORE THAN $2M.

I know this, and agreed with you previously. The person you responded to was talking about the actual cap figures it would take to sign the picks, and it seemed like you disagreed with him. I'm not disagreeing with you on the net effects on the cap. Just a misunderstanding...no need to jump off the deep end.

 

[BelichickFan]

no need to jump off the deep end.

I know, sorry about that

 

[DaBruinz]

************, I know that. For the love of God. The same thing happens this year, every draft pick knocks off a current player which wipes out a couple million or so. Who f*cking cares how much the picks sign for if the NET is $1.5M.

ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE NET RESULT OF SIGNEES vs. EX PLAYERS AND THAT WILL BE NO MORE THAN $2M.

The NET doesn't matter. The Pats still have to keep 4.6 million set aside for their draft picks. Period.

 

[DaBruinz]

No real interest in Briggs.

He doesent have as much talent as Colvin and Colvin hasnt lit up the stat board since hes been here so I rather have a draft pick than add another "Branch" type player.

So, you are holding it against Colvin that he had the fluke injury where his hip was fractured. Colvin has done a damn good job since coming back from his injury. He's much stouter against the run than he used to be, that's for sure.

 

[BelichickFan]

The NET doesn't matter. The Pats still have to keep 4.6 million set aside for their draft picks. Period.

But at the end of the day the net is all that matters.

 

[TheSeymonsta]

So, you are holding it against Colvin that he had the fluke injury where his hip was fractured.

Not holding it against him at all. Just stating the facts.

Facts are he has not lived up to his billing. What goes into that doesent matter.(ie..Injury, whatever).

 

[sebman2112]

But at the end of the day the net is all that matters.

What he means and what I am talking about is this. You will need 4.2-4.6M to sign them. That cap space will be taken up by them, and will limit your ability to sign FA's until the cutdowns, when those rookies replace vets. Because you have to have enough space to sign any free agent, when you sign them, the only effect on the cap that will matter right now is the 4.2-4.6M. So, the net effect will not effect NE's ability to pay Briggs, now. The topic of discussion.

 

[BelichickFan]

What he means and what I am talking about is this. You will need 4.2-4.6M to sign them. That cap space will be taken up by them, and will limit your ability to sign FA's until the cutdowns, when those rookies replace vets. Because you have to have enough space to sign any free agent, when you sign them, the only effect on the cap that will matter right now is the 4.2-4.6M. So, the net effect will not effect NE's ability to pay Briggs, now. The topic of discussion.

Accoring to Miguel, the Rule of 51 is in effect now :

"From March 1 to September 7 (the day before the season begins), the Patriots's top 51 salaried players count towards the cap, plus pro-rated signing bonuses, incentives, etc., but not base salaries of other players on the roster up to 88"

So when you sign a draft choice, a player at minimum salary drops off.