Pete Carroll Picking The Groceries

[RayClay]

And I hope, if they meet up, that Carrol kicks Ron Borges ass, he owes him one. I don't know if anyone remembers that, but Borges was totally disrespectful in a press conference putting Pete in the position of taking it or stepping into the press area to kick his ass which he wouldn't do because of his respect for the organization.

Totally disgusting, even for Borges.

 

[mgteich]

I agree.

However, I don't think that Seattle will keep Thomas. And has been pointed out, Harvin is a big cap hit for only one more year, and then he will likely go.

I am no capologist but in my observing the NFL for as long as I have, where the salary cap has been in place, teams can always maneuver and restructure and find ways to get their key players signed. And even if the were to lose Thomas, that is still a pretty damn good football team.

 

[Off The Grid]

I don't know if anyone remembers that, but Borges was totally disrespectful in a press conference putting Pete in the position of taking it or stepping into the press area to kick his ass which he wouldn't do because of his respect for the organization.

Totally disgusting, even for Borges.

Remember that like it was Yesterday.

Funny thing is: When Borges launched on'm, his quasi-tantrum was so ludicrously explosive that I couldn't help but wonder if he ~ Borges ~ was actually playing a part: trying to provoke Carroll by going so far over the top with his Vituperative Bombast that Carroll would explode on'm, thus evoking fond memories of the Press Conferences of Coach Bill I...and thus, perhaps, winning his ~ Carroll's ~ first ounce of Respect amongst us grizzled, wily Yankees.

In retrospect, the notion that Scum such as Borges might actually be capable of thinking in terms of "Taking One For The Team" ~ of deliberately provoking Carroll because he suspected that there was a Warrior under all that Rah Rah crap, and thought that Carroll might in one moment of Wrath earn all the Yankee Respect that'd hitherto eluded'm ~ seems foolish. Borges is a Wretch.

But this was a notion that occurred to me in 1997, I think it was, before I'd come to recognize how outrageously disgusting and despicable Borges truly is, and probably incapable of such altruistic Notions.

Carroll, of course, dipped his head, took a deep breath, and Tried To Be Reasonable.

He had not yet grown into'is Teeth.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

Most of the core guys from the Pats SB wins were drafted while Grier was either GM or in the personnel department as Director or VP. He could even get some credit for the drafting of Brady as his personnel department scouted him before he was fired. Why is he so disliked here?

 

[Joker]

he blew 29 of 31 consecutive draft picks in one memorable stretch...THAT is why

 

[IllegalContact]

Its the meth lab in the basement......that team is a bunch of animals

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Thanks for the article. I didn't realize Kraft had said that. I got crucified here for essentially saying the same thing.

As much as Carroll would have fared better, he still wasn't a fit in New England at that time. His west coast personality hadn't grown. Pumped and jacked and all that.

It's funny how I'm almost happy for Grier being successful at a lesser position now for years. Kraft said, he was looking for checks and balances which put a foot soldier at the head of the Army when he wasn't close to ready for it. You can't blame Grier for taking the job he wasn't fit for.

Agreed.
The Patriots had been molded by Parcells, a bit of the old school philosophy we see more so under BB. That kind of team was(is) not going to excel under California Pete, Grier or no Grier. With due respect to PC, no way does he win a SB with the 2001 Patriot's team. That kind of team needed a BB/BP type.

Grier being chosen as GM over 'BP as HC/GM' is utter lunacy in hindsight. It's probably the worst decision by Kraft as the Patriots' owner. Then Kraft compounded the error by allowing his GM to bring in the wrong type coach for the team that was assembled. At that moment in time the management of the Patriots was a mismatch for the team that had been assembled largely by BP. Then this new management was dysfunctional. I forget the exact story but it was, generally, certain players going around PC (going direct to Grier) when they didn't like something PC was doing. If that was true and happened more than once, California Pete was DOA...

Seattle is a good team so PC deserves credit. And if Seattle continues to be in the thick of the playoff chase/SB hunt over an extended period of seasons (more than just a couple), whatever happened at USC served him well. Because, IMHO, PC was not ready to put together a winning NFL organization in 1997, Grier or no Grier.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Most of the core guys from the Pats SB wins were drafted while Grier was either GM or in the personnel department as Director or VP. He could even get some credit for the drafting of Brady as his personnel department scouted him before he was fired. Why is he so disliked here?

Of the 26 picks/3 years of Grier as the clear and sole decision maker/GM of the Patriots, this produced the following contributors for the 2001 SB team: Damien Woody, Brandon Mitchel, Kevin Faulk, Rod Rutledge (Tebucky too but he was on IR that year I believe).
Grier as GM = hindrance to SB success as the turnover needed/done by BB was big -- and it was big because of Grier.
So you may want to rethink giving some credit to 'Grier the GM' for some of the Patriots SB success.

The 3 years of drafting with Grier as the decision maker (in no particular order)(bold is my recollection of who was on the 2001 roster):
Ron Merkerson Harold Shaw Jason Andersen Chris Canty Brandon Mitchell Sedrick Shaw Chris Carter Damon Denson Vernon Crawford Tony Gaiter Scott Rehberg Damien Woody Andy Katzenmoyer Kevin Faulk Tony George Derrick Fletcher Marcus Washington Michael Bishop Sean Morey Robert Edwards Tebucky Jones Tony Simmons Rod Rutledge Chris Floyd Greg Spires Leonta Rheams

 

[DarrylS]

Pete has done well in Seattle, but his stint taught him how not to be a HC in the NFL... he went back to the USC AAA affiliate and honed his craft.

Give credit where credit is due, but let's see if he can stand the test of time...

 

[AzorianPats]

Of the 26 picks/3 years of Grier as the clear and sole decision maker/GM of the Patriots, this produced the following contributors for the 2001 SB team: Damien Woody, Brandon Mitchel, Kevin Faulk, Rod Rutledge (Tebucky too but he was on IR that year I believe).
Grier as GM = hindrance to SB success as the turnover needed/done by BB was big -- and it was big because of Grier.
So you may want to rethink giving some credit to 'Grier the GM' for some of the Patriots SB success.

The 3 years of drafting with Grier as the decision maker (in no particular order)(bold is my recollection of who was on the 2001 roster):
Ron Merkerson Harold Shaw Jason Andersen Chris Canty Brandon Mitchell Sedrick Shaw Chris Carter Damon Denson Vernon Crawford Tony Gaiter Scott Rehberg Damien Woody Andy Katzenmoyer Kevin Faulk Tony George Derrick Fletcher Marcus Washington Michael Bishop Sean Morey Robert Edwards Tebucky Jones Tony Simmons Rod Rutledge Chris Floyd Greg Spires Leonta Rheams

Tebucky Jones wasn't on IR strangler. the 2001 Super Bowl season was probably his best as a pro. Remember at the SB, he returned a fumble recovery for a TD but was called back on a defensive penalty?

Seeing Browner for the Seahawks and remembering PC drafting Tebucky to be a CB, PC really loves big physical corners. As far as Petey goes. I've got nothing against the guy. Always thought he was a good coach, but he wasn't a fit here, and he probably would never be. This team molded into the Parcells/Belichick way.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Tebucky Jones wasn't on IR strangler. the 2001 Super Bowl season was probably his best as a pro. Remember at the SB, he returned a fumble recovery for a TD but was called back on a defensive penalty?

Seeing Browner for the Seahawks and remembering PC drafting Tebucky to be a CB, PC really loves big physical corners. As far as Petey goes. I've got nothing against the guy. Always thought he was a good coach, but he wasn't a fit here, and he probably would never be. This team molded into the Parcells/Belichick way.

Thanks for the update AZ. Other than the draft list I was working off of memory. That's an iffy proposition with each passing birthday and this week's over indulgence in Christmas cheer . I was thinking I might be wrong on Spires too. I thought he may have stuck around a couple of years into the BB era.....
It doesn't dilute the original point too much. The SB team of 2001 had all but nothing to do with Grier the GM with the exception it may have been a harder task for BB.
As for Grier the personnel department guy working under someone else? Without being the ultimate decision maker his value may have been significant, I don't know.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

After 2014, cutting Harvin over the next 5 years will save the Seahawks cap space so the Seahawks are not tied into keeping on their roster at the aforementioned cap hits.

Wilson is playing on a 3rd round contract which can't be negotiated until after year 3 (2014) which I assume will happen rather than let him play out the contract and get franchised so I assume they are looking at a big cap hit in 2015 for his new contract....

 

[VrabelJr]

The Bobby Grier bashing really needs to stop. We wouldn't have Tom Brady without him.

 

[RIpats88]

Pete Caroll/the seahakws benefit from their QB being on a 3rd round rookie contract...which allows them to spend ALOT of cap space in other areas...once Wilson's contract is up and all these other rookie QB's they will have to give up in other areas

Not to mention their whole secondary being on PED's

 

[RayClay]

The Bobby Grier bashing really needs to stop. We wouldn't have Tom Brady without him.

You don't think Rehnbein, the QBs coach who worked him out at Michigan, could have talked BB into drafting him in the 6th round?

Also, I said i was happy for him that he's still in a front office, but it's hard to deny that the egos of Parcells and Kraft caused someone to be in charge of the draft that wasn't ready and/or qualified. Remember, Grier also had multiple extra high picks too.

 

[mgteich]

Grier did listen to his coach who guaranteed that he wouldn't be sorry if he drafted Brady. A QB coach can sometimes twist a GM's arm on a 6th round pick.

Tom Brady: QB Opens Up in Documentary About NFL Teams' Major Oversight | Bleacher Report

You don't think Rehnbein, the QBs coach who worked him out at Michigan, could have talked BB into drafting him in the 6th round?

Also, I said i was happy for him that he's still in a front office, but it's hard to deny that the egos of Parcells and Kraft caused someone to be in charge of the draft that wasn't ready and/or qualified. Remember, Grier also had multiple extra high picks too.

 

[RayClay]

Grier did listen to his coach who guaranteed that he wouldn't be sorry if he drafted Brady. A QB coach can sometimes twist a GM's arm on a 6th round pick.

Tom Brady: QB Opens Up in Documentary About NFL Teams' Major Oversight | Bleacher Report

I didn't slam Grier, just pointed out he was in way over his head in a job he shouldn't have. Called the coach? great. We wouldn't have had Brady without him? That's not likely IMO.

 

[mgteich]

We are agreed that Grier was over his head. However, I believe that he was in control of all of the picks in the 2000.

I didn't slam Grier, just pointed out he was in way over his head in a job he shouldn't have. Called the coach? great. We wouldn't have had Brady without him? That's not likely IMO.

 

[RayClay]

We are agreed that Grier was over his head. However, I believe that he was in control of all of the picks in the 2000.

Grier had a lot more input than anyone else besides Belichick and Pioli because he had put the work in. If you believe BB gave complete control over anything to anyone, I have a bridge to sell you.

Random article from that draft...

Pats Pleased With Adrian's Landing - Hartford Courant

Rehbein was his quarterback coach. He went to Michigan to personally work out Brady. He wrote in his journal that Brady was going to be outstanding (below), called his wife after every round

USATODAY.com - Game too painful for coach's widow

**** loved Brady. He loved the quarterback's potential, his awareness, his ability to find receivers all over the field. **** was certain Brady could be an NFL star. One of his closest friends, Charlie Weis, the Patriots' offensive coordinator at the time, says **** was never afraid to offer an opinion unlike many other assistant coaches. And **** constantly pushed Brady in draft meetings.

"He was huge on Tom Brady," Pam says. "Just huge."

**** wasn't the first to see great promise in Brady. Weis, now the head coach at Kansas, recalls that general manager Scott Pioli and head coach Bill Belichick made a list of six quarterback prospects and asked **** to evaluate them. "Scott and Bill had to find [Brady] first," Weis says. But early in the process **** realized there was something wonderful about Brady.

The first time Pam can remember her husband talking about Brady was when he was at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis early in 2000. "There's this great young quarterback who has all this potential," she says he told her. When she asked who it was, he told her it was Tom Brady from Michigan.

Y! SPORTS

He started at Michigan. He was going to get a look.

 

[Joker]

I had a press pass and a couple of web sites back when Grier was GM. He signed #4 and #6 (Rucci +Lane for those of you that don't remember the Unofficial Patriotfans.com board way back when) to, at the time, preposterous multi-year, multi-million dollar guaranteed contracts.As I stated earlier in this thread, 29 of 31 draft picks in a three year period under his stewardship, busted out. Taking up Rehbein's strident and persistent recommendation in the SIXTH round is no affirmation of Booby's draft acumen.