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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mgteich, Mar 16, 2010.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    However, it doesn't seem that there is as much disagreement here on the draft board as in previous years.
     
  2. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    I think it reflects a certain lack of passion for any of the candidates. Odd in a generally stacked draft.
     
  3. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I thought it was the whip hand of the moderatrix. :stars2:
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  4. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Here I thought I was being so gentle...[​IMG]
     
  5. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :rofl: As if. :p
     
  6. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Keepin' her pimp hand strong.

    I was actually thinking the same thing last week....there's just a overwhelming general sense of agreement as to what positions need to be targeted, and the best way to go about doing it, even if we debate the merits of Graham vs. Hughes vs. Sapp vs. Misi.

    I guess that's a good thing that there are few real holes on this roster. Or a bad thing that we have holes so large that it's obvious where our high draft picks need to go to.
     
  7. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    In years past the discussions tended to be about Patriot type guys vs. non Patriot type guys and then we would all have a few players we really thought could help the Patriots,only to see BB go off in a completely different direction.

    This year is different in that there is no passion for a few players, just a lot of different type players that BB might or might not like. It feels like pre-game warm ups.

    We need someone to post a thought provoking and semi controversial mock to get the blood pumping again.
     
  8. bakes781

    bakes781 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    I would tend to think it's that the holes are so glaring. As the draft draws near I'm sure there will be some disagreements.

    There's definitely a group that thinks we should draft a RB and to those people I would say look at the teams with great RBs currently and where did they finish?

    The lack of a pass rush is the most glaring need on this team. That won't be completely solved with pick #22, but we can find a huge piece.
     
  9. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Tensions usually increase and pressure mounts the closer it gets to draft day.

    But to illustrate what a different year this is - Box and I actually agree on one player. And we are not that far of on one more.:eek:
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  10. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    and we'll all eat our hats when BB drafts for value after spending hundreds of hours researching OLB/DE and TEs
     
  11. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Value is not independent of need. In fact, need is probably a big component of value.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  12. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Need and value are just attributes of a pick. Most teams probably rank both and that's the selection they take, but they are independent.
     
  13. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    I strongly disagree. "Value" is short for "Value to the team as currently constituted", and would include attributes like need, special teams ability, positional flexibility, upside, work ethic, etc. If Jimmy Clausen is sitting there at #22, Belichick isn't going to draft him. His value to the Patriots isn't a first round pick. Now if he's sitting their in the 4th round, maybe Belichick drafts him. If Belichick were the GM or the Vikings and Clausen were sitting there at #30, he'd draft him in a heartbeat.

    What's different? Clausen's inherent value hasn't changed. Belichick's evaluational skills haven't changed. The value of Clausen relative to the team has changed.
     
  14. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    It's a hotly debated term, but I think most people use value to refer to more of a strategic intra-draft positioning rather than a general ranking/stack.
     
  15. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    I don't think it's irreconcilable. Then again, I don't think I can spell irreconcilable.

    "Value" to me, is a very simple term, and the dictionary probably has it spot-on. What is somebody worth? "Value" is meaningless in a vacuum. It's dependent on context.

    Is Player X worth a first rounder?, is one example. I usually rank fewer than 15 players a year as 1st round values for the Patriots. Obviously, most years there are 32 1st round picks. So I agree, it's not a matter of the 1st 32 players in your stack. Rather, when all is said and done, is he worth using your most valuable draft pick and the commensurate financial compensation that comes with it?

    Is Jimmy Clausen a first-round value? means nothing without context. He's not worth a first rounder to the Boston Bruins or Seattle Mariners. He's not worth a first rounder to the Patriots or Colts or Lions or Jets or Chargers or Saints or Falcons or Giants or Ravens, and he wouldn't be if Belichick was the GM of all those teams right now. He is worth a first-round pick to the Vikings or Panthers or Bills, and would be if Belichick were the GM of all those teams right now. You could play similar games with Terrence Cody or any undersized DE or MLB in the draft.

    So again, what has changed for the draftee? Nothing -- except for the environment. Need and Value aren't adversarial draft philosophies. A GM can slightly reach for a Need, but that's because that player has a higher Value to the team than one who is similarly ranked but plays a different position.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  16. reamer

    reamer Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'd say that our cousin already took care of that, but you stipulated semi controversial. :rofl:

    Also, I never got a response when I asked you about Everson Griffen. You feel he can't play OLB at all, and I want to know why since he often dropped into coverage and played standing up in college, not to mention posted some of the fastest DE times at the combine--but you know more about football than I do, so I'd like to learn from you. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  17. Coach42

    Coach42 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #87 Jersey

    I think the lack of debate and passion to get behind any one guy, for me at least, is the quality of the draft. For instance I, might be the last,\ supporter of Dunlap, however I see good value in several other players at other positions as well. I won't mind one bit if the Pats go a completely different direction because so many players seem like good fits for us this year.
     
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