Paying their dues

[holyredeemer]

I know alot of people on this board are against signing players for more than what they are worth and insist that the pats do things the PATRIOT way. With that being said, why won't the pats give their own players any money? We all know Willie isn't asking for HUGE dollars, so why don't they re-sign him and let him retire a patriot. They would still have the option to bring in someone younger and utilize willie in different situations. It's not just willie though. It seems like whenever players perform, and then want to be paid for it, we send them packing.
I just don't think that will make the pats look good to any free agents or draftees when trying to work out contract situations. I like the release of Brown though. That was a nice move. Would like to see Poole gone. But, we have enough room to sign Willie back and possibly AV, along with extending contracts to Branch and Seymour. Possible they are doing that now, who knows. I just think it seems like a slap in the face to alot of guys that come in a give their all for us, only to be given their walking papers when it is time to renegotiate. No knock on the orgaization. Just something to talk about. Also, I know there is alot of time left to get these things done. So I may just be jumping the gun.

 

[arrellbee]

I know alot of people on this board are against signing players for more than what they are worth and insist that the pats do things the PATRIOT way. With that being said, why won't the pats give their own players any money? We all know Willie isn't asking for HUGE dollars, so why don't they re-sign him and let him retire a patriot. They would still have the option to bring in someone younger and utilize willie in different situations. It's not just willie though. It seems like whenever players perform, and then want to be paid for it, we send them packing.
I just don't think that will make the pats look good to any free agents or draftees when trying to work out contract situations. I like the release of Brown though. That was a nice move. Would like to see Poole gone. But, we have enough room to sign Willie back and possibly AV, along with extending contracts to Branch and Seymour. Possible they are doing that now, who knows. I just think it seems like a slap in the face to alot of guys that come in a give their all for us, only to be given their walking papers when it is time to renegotiate. No knock on the orgaization. Just something to talk about. Also, I know there is alot of time left to get these things done. So I may just be jumping the gun.

It's a good question, but to get an idea, just get Miguel's salary cap page (or spread sheet) and play the numbers game. You have to fill out all 63 roster positions. What I think you may find is that, leaving room for a rookie salary cap amount and a million or so for injury reserve replacements, even tho the Pats are under the cap, you will find that dollars are not that plentiful. ESPECIALLY if you have any notion of giving Seymour and Branch big dollars and even signing one or two free agents at today's prices as so many folks want to do on this board. In fact, I think you will actually see that you would have to cut come of the mid-range salary guys to get enough room to do much of that. And which of THOSE guys would you cut ?? ?? ?? At one time, I believe that the Patriots had the highest number of players at $1M and over in the league - ie the strong middle class that is purported to be the reason the Patriots have been successful. (somebody correct me if that $1M comment is incorrect).

It is quite a crafting job (pun intended) to fill an entire roster with fairly strong players. Most of these 'splash' teams fill out the bottom of their rosters with journeymen who would be really weak if they had to replace a starter.

 

[mgteich]

In 2006, the patriots will spend about the same amount as salary cap as Washington. You need to understand that giving money to Willie is simply taking it from someone else. One option with regard to the $10M of free agency money we have is to give everyone a $200K raise. Another is to spread the money among four players $2.5M each. Yet another is for the patriots to use the money to get the very best team we can get for this years and years to come.

I know alot of people on this board are against signing players for more than what they are worth and insist that the pats do things the PATRIOT way. With that being said, why won't the pats give their own players any money? We all know Willie isn't asking for HUGE dollars, so why don't they re-sign him and let him retire a patriot. They would still have the option to bring in someone younger and utilize willie in different situations. It's not just willie though. It seems like whenever players perform, and then want to be paid for it, we send them packing.
I just don't think that will make the pats look good to any free agents or draftees when trying to work out contract situations. I like the release of Brown though. That was a nice move. Would like to see Poole gone. But, we have enough room to sign Willie back and possibly AV, along with extending contracts to Branch and Seymour. Possible they are doing that now, who knows. I just think it seems like a slap in the face to alot of guys that come in a give their all for us, only to be given their walking papers when it is time to renegotiate. No knock on the orgaization. Just something to talk about. Also, I know there is alot of time left to get these things done. So I may just be jumping the gun.

 

[Pats67]

I know alot of people on this board are against signing players for more than what they are worth and insist that the pats do things the PATRIOT way. With that being said, why won't the pats give their own players any money? We all know Willie isn't asking for HUGE dollars, so why don't they re-sign him and let him retire a patriot. They would still have the option to bring in someone younger and utilize willie in different situations. It's not just willie though. It seems like whenever players perform, and then want to be paid for it, we send them packing.
I just don't think that will make the pats look good to any free agents or draftees when trying to work out contract situations. I like the release of Brown though. That was a nice move. Would like to see Poole gone. But, we have enough room to sign Willie back and possibly AV, along with extending contracts to Branch and Seymour. Possible they are doing that now, who knows. I just think it seems like a slap in the face to alot of guys that come in a give their all for us, only to be given their walking papers when it is time to renegotiate. No knock on the orgaization. Just something to talk about. Also, I know there is alot of time left to get these things done. So I may just be jumping the gun.

So, in other words, they're cheap, nobody's going to want to play for them (when did Ron Borges get an account here?), but no knock on the organization though.

 

[Pats67]

You need to understand that giving money to Willie is simply taking it from someone else.

Pretty simple concept, isn't it? Yet it continues to slip people up. Confounding.

It may also be possible that they have decided that due to Willie's age (35 next December), now is the time to cut the string with him, pure and simple. They may have simply decided that they are better off at this point in time going in another direction, one that may enable them to keep people like Branch (27 in July) and Seymour (27 in October).

 

[Pats726]

Pretty simple concept, isn't it? Yet it continues to slip people up. Confounding.

It may also be possible that they have decided that due to Willie's age (35 next December), now is the time to cut the string with him, pure and simple. They may have simply decided that they are better off at this point in time going in another direction, one that may enable them to keep people like Branch (27 in July) and Seymour (27 in October).

Right.....and people do not understand what the organization is doing..attempting to do...

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

I'm wondering if you (the thread starter) think it should go like this:

Bob Kraft addresses the team at training camp and informs the players that the organization has decided to keep several players because they have paid their "dues." Kraft goes on to say that while this may not be conducive to winning, he thinks its more important that players be compensated for their dedication first and their performance second.
********

Look, it is the responsibility of the management to do their very best, just as they demand the very best from the players they hire. Players don't skip tackling someone because he just a great guy to have in the NFL and neither can the front offices put any but efficiency and expectation in their decision making process or not only would they be whacked for incompetence but they would also be letting down all of their players who are out there trying to win. It's that simple.....

 

[holyredeemer]

Bradysbuttboy--
I feel that we should atleast CALL people like willie and show him some respect. Let him know that you're moving on. Give him ATLEAST that much. Don't try and tell me that the way they are going about things is kinda shrewed. Name one player out there that will fill the void left by willie? OR vinatieri? Stop kissing the asses of the FO and hailing EVERYTHING they do as BRILLIANT. It's OKAY to disagree with them on some things and to question others.

 

[Pats67]

Bradysbuttboy--
Stop kissing the asses of the FO and hailing EVERYTHING they do as BRILLIANT. It's OKAY to disagree with them on some things and to question others.

Oh, for crissakes, that's ALL you do. That's all you're CAPABLE of doing.

Before telling everyone how THEY should behave, how about you show just ONCE that you're listening to anything anyone says to YOU? You've been all over this board all weekend stamping your feet with your illogical and unreasonable rants and people much more tolerant and generous than I have legitimately tried to explain to you again and again how this stuff works, and you clearly haven't heard ANY of it. You're just another in a long line of wise guys from this area who aren't happy unless they're *****ing and moaning about the front offices, coaches/managers and telling anyone and everyone who'll listen how YOU'D do it......its a tired, pathetic act, it brings nothing of any substance or value to the table, and all you do is just clutter up these threads with your myopic horsehit to the point that its almost goddam improssible to enjoy the contributions of the people who have the intelligence and maturity necessary to make for an enjoyable debate and discussion.

My suggestion to you is leave the freaking 'submit reply' button alone for awhile and try - JUST ONCE - to learn something for the extremely patient people who have tried to help you.

Unless, of course, you're really not interested in learning anything or understanding anything, and this is really just all about getting as much attention from your WEEI-style rants as you can.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think His Holiness would be much happier whining about the Red Sox. It's a permanent profession there and deservedly so. I wouldn't mind if just ONE of his posts had cogent or insightful criticism of the Pats decision rather than "Woe be unto all of us! The end is nigh!"

This kid is right on track to replace 'the senile one' in 40 more years.

 

[Pats67]

I wouldn't mind if just ONE of his posts had cogent or insightful criticism of the Pats decision rather than "Woe be unto all of us! The end is nigh!"

Don't hold your breath on that.

And I wonder how 'cogent or insightful' any criticism can be when the league year is still in its first week, and with the season not scheduled to begin for five and a half months.

And I wonder about anyone who is so anxious to prove how HE'S not going to "kiss the FO's *ss", a la Ron Borges. I'm not sure what kind of gratification this provides to him, but its pretty clear it does gratify him in some weird way. Just be thankful you're not afflicted with the same disease.

 

[patriotsrule]

I know alot of people on this board are against signing players for more than what they are worth and insist that the pats do things the PATRIOT way. With that being said, why won't the pats give their own players any money? We all know Willie isn't asking for HUGE dollars, so why don't they re-sign him and let him retire a patriot. They would still have the option to bring in someone younger and utilize willie in different situations. It's not just willie though. It seems like whenever players perform, and then want to be paid for it, we send them packing.
I just don't think that will make the pats look good to any free agents or draftees when trying to work out contract situations. I like the release of Brown though. That was a nice move. Would like to see Poole gone. But, we have enough room to sign Willie back and possibly AV, along with extending contracts to Branch and Seymour. Possible they are doing that now, who knows. I just think it seems like a slap in the face to alot of guys that come in a give their all for us, only to be given their walking papers when it is time to renegotiate. No knock on the orgaization. Just something to talk about. Also, I know there is alot of time left to get these things done. So I may just be jumping the gun.

Maybe a lot of players are getting sick of the "Patriot way." I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just pointing out that a lot of players seem to be running for the door. We all know Seymour isn't that happy either. If Vinatieri, McGinest and Givens all leave, it could possibly open up the flood gates I'm sad to say. I hope I'm wrong but it is a possibility.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Yo Holyman, let me add this tidbit for you. I am not convinced that Pioli and BB are the talent picking supermen they are often cited as being. They've had some pretty so-so drafts and haven't procured any true power studs outside of Brady, Seymour, Harrison and Dillon (for one year). McGinest and Bruschi were there when BB and Co. arrived. Branch, Watson, Graham, Wilfork, Colvin, Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, Mankins, etc., are important players but none are in the super elite, and I think this FO must develop a couple more super elites from the draft very soon or there is going to be trouble galore.

I didn't like the Dillon extension/gaurantee they did last year. I don't think they have the best handle on how to draft RB's either, so I'm far from a FO butt kisser.

I simply tried to paint a simple black and white picture for you. i really believe my little vignette is what building a winning team comes down to.....

 

[Patjew]

Maybe a lot of players are getting sick of the "Patriot way." I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just pointing out that a lot of players seem to be running for the door. We all know Seymour isn't that happy either. If Vinatieri, McGinest and Givens all leave, it could possibly open up the flood gates I'm sad to say. I hope I'm wrong but it is a possibility.

This isn't anything new. Think Law, Lawyer, Woody, etc. Now, in no way am I lumping Vinatieri, McGinest and Givens with that group or saying I hope they leave. I hope they DON'T! But somehow the Pats have been able to replace the irreplaceable parts that left for more $ and fame and have kept chugging along. It won't last forever, but I don't think it will end too soon, either.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Maybe a lot of players are getting sick of the "Patriot way." I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just pointing out that a lot of players seem to be running for the door. We all know Seymour isn't that happy either. If Vinatieri, McGinest and Givens all leave, it could possibly open up the flood gates I'm sad to say. I hope I'm wrong but it is a possibility.

Could be.
I think that guys are just trying to get the best $ deal they can get in a free market where some teams will over pay - the Pats typically won't. In a couple of cases I also think that BB has decided to move on and reload. Atheletes have finite years of productivity.