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Paul Tibbets, American Hero: 1915-2007

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by QuiGon, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Can you speak Japanese..? No..? Well, neither can I - thanks to American heroes such as Mr. Tibbets, who flew the Enola Gay.

    History revisionists (i.e. the usual "blame America first" crowd) will try and tell you we didn't need to do what we did. But never let it be forgotten that those bombs prevented a Japanese D-Day, and those bombs saved hundreds of thousands of American lives. That's a trade off I will take every day of the week.

    "I sleep clearly every night." - the Late Paul Tibbets
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2007
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    well, i was going to let yet another of this guy's tired threads plummet to the bottom of the list, unreplied.... but i almost feel bad for him...

    i'll pose a question, however... rhetorical, because he can't handle me and blocks his ears: but, at what point in history were we in danger of "speaking Japanese?".... oh, that's right... never...

    people like him back then, however, whipped up the fear card i'm sure and had the masses believing just that.... oh how history repeats...
  3. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rookie

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    I think I'm turning Japanese
    I think I'm turning Japanese
    I really think so
  4. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    I can't speak much Japanese, but my wife can. :D She was born there, as were her ancestors for about a thousand generations (with maybe a European sailor sprinkled in about 300 or so years ago).

    Anyway, she has always held that most Japanese were grateful that the U.S. ended the war so dramatically. She points out that there is at least one statue of MacArthur in Japan, he was so respected for how he handled the situation there after the Japanese surrendered.

    My own thinking is that the war could have been concluded without the use of the atomic bomb, which should have been held back and later against the communist Chinese to prevent the communist take-over of half of Korea. The world would be a lot better now if that had happened.

    A unified non-communist Korea would be a powerhouse for good in Asia and even the world by now. As it is, South Korea is the number one nation in the world in internet use, number one or two in ship-building, and has had an overall economic development of very impressive proportion. Their attitude is fresh, young, and very robust. Look for great things to come from Korea.



    //
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So should we take the above to mean you think we did the wrong thing in dropping the bomb, or we did a necessary evil?
  6. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    at what point will my question be answered? tell you what... when anyone answers my question, which came first, i'll address your own...
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure, what was the question?
  8. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    at what point were we in danger of ever "speaking Japanese", as the paranoid, fear-mongoring original poster intimated to us all....?
  9. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    We were never in any danger of having to learn how to speak Japanese. But that isn't the reason Tibbits flew that mission,but I'm not going to break my ankles jumping into someone elses argument. Let them speak for themselves.
  10. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    agreed... it's just cowardly and insulting to present a memorial to a serviceman by first making up a scenario that never existed... a disservice to the man's memory, and rather typical of angry Bunkerites everywhere...

    oh yes... the very real danger of japanese invasion and forced culture change!!!! oh the drama!!!
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    During WWII if we had John Fonda Kerry for President and the Auntie Pelosi Gang of weasles running the congress we would all be speaking Japanese.
    :bricks:
  12. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    thank you for officially isolating yourself as the pre-eminent nonsensical poster we have to offer here...
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not sure if I would classify Paul Tibbets an american hero, he did what he was supposed to do.. I am ambivalent over the whole atom bomb thing, my pacificist side has to disagree... but I know if we did a land invasion of Japan it would have been a blood bath for both sides and gone on ad infinitim.. the question becomes does the end justify the means??

    Do not think for one minute that we would have been speaking Japanese though.. that is a stretch.
  14. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    i guess history begs the question then...

    was a land invasion of mainland Japan the only other viable solution? ... their navy was destroyed, their countless cities firebombed to the ground, their fuel imports completely subjugated...

    why the never-ending rationale from the "Right" that we would have certainly had to set millions of american G.I.'s on Japan's shores? as if that was the only other choice besides dropping a weapon of mass destruction from the sky? ...

    it was a message sent to the Soviets, plain and simple...
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2007
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Tibbets himself would wince at being called a hero. It is the last thing he would have wanted. IMO, the heroic work had already been done. He was just an instrument of the war effort. He was not a hero any more than any other soldier in the Pacific was. We can all say that almost every pilot who flew a mission over Japan was ballzy, but not all were heroes.

    Dropping the bomb was obviously the right thing to do. The invasion of Japan would have resulted in far more civilian deaths.
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I didn't know that.
    :bricks:
  17. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    If the Axis powers had triumphed in World War 2, we here in the United States would be currently speaking either Japanese or German this very day. WTF do you think they were going to do..? Just leave us alone..?

    Typical liberal... you want to minimize the value and contributions of American soldiers, and preserve your "blame America first" agenda, so the first thing you do is try to minimize the threat that existed. We're seeing the start of the same liberal revisionist history with the Cold War... hearing about how the USSR was never all that powerful, they were a "paper tiger" or just never really posed us any threat... It's pretty f*cking shameful if you ask me, but nothing we're not used to since liberals have absolutel zero shame.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2007
  18. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why do hard core Left Wing Liberals always seem to Defend America's Enemy's but they remain in America and take advantage of all the freedoms and opportunity's that go with living here, they are born poor then because of our American Freedom they become millionaires, they own three or four homes, yachts, motorhomes, private planes and a way of life that America's enemy could only dream of, then what do these dirty millionaire scumsucking bastards do, they DEFEND & SUPPORT Murdering Cruel Dictators, they TRASH THEIR OWN COUNTRY, AND BLAME AMERICA FOR EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG IN THE WORLD, the movie stars, the Pelosi Gang, and all of the Left Wing Media (CBS--NY Times etc) Harry Reid & Sean Penn should be chain dragged to death.

    Now they want to hand out Birth Control Pills to little 11 year old girls and turn them into Whores like the Hollywood Pigs, if I had an 11 year old daughter and some loony filthy left wing bastard gave her birth control pills I would hunt them down and cut their stomachs open with a "Beheading Knife" and feed their worthless guts to the Seagulls in Boston Harbor.

    God Bless America
    God Bless Jesus Christ
    God Bless Mary & Joseph
    God Bless Mary Magdliene
    God Bless The Minutemen
    F-ck Cuba
    :bricks:
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2007
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    This could be about the Bush Administration just as easily. Could be about any of the last four administrations, come to think of it.
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While, I would, as would anyone, wish Tibbett's family well, he was no hero. His attitude is akin to the Nazi rationale for evil, "I was only following orders."

    It was not necessary to drop the atom bomb and Truman, for me, will always be among our worse presidents for that evil decision. By dropping the bomb, he initiated the most dangerous arms race and established precedent for using the bomb in the future. We were the first to use it. Who will be the second?

    While I'm sure QuiGon will remind everyone that I once posted an article about opposition to the bomb that I found, unwittingly, on a right-wing anti-semitic site, the fact is that article quoted many top American generals and there are other articles from sources that aren't right-wing that make the same point and frankly, I have far more respect for men like Eisenhower than for uncourageous tools like Tibbett:

    http://www.ncesa.org/html/atombomb.html

    Admiral William D. Leahy went public with the following statement:

    "It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender . . .

    "My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."

    ***

    In the midst of the Cold War--shortly after his famous Farewell Address criticizing the "military-industrial complex"--Eisenhower also went public with a statement about the Hiroshima decision. Recalling the 1945 moment when Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson informed him the atomic bomb would be used against Japanese cities, Eisenhower stated:

    "During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, attempting to surrender with a minimum loss of "face". . . ."

    ***

    "Careful scholarly treatment of the records and manuscripts opened over the past few years has greatly enhanced our understanding of why the Truman administration used atomic weapons against Japan. Experts continue to disagree on some issues, but critical questions have been answered. The consensus among scholars is that the bomb was not needed to avoid an invasion of Japan and to end the war within a relatively short time. It is clear that alternatives to the bomb existed and that Truman and his advisers knew it . . ."

    The writer, J. Samuel Walker, Chief Historian of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission--the institutional locus of conservative, often pro-nuclear thinking.

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