Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Box_O_Rocks, Aug 24, 2009.
Bills again turned upside down by 3-4 defense : Sports : The Buffalo News
Arent the Bills are a 3-4 D? If so, you'd think they get enough practice against it. lol.
No, they're a 4-3 pressure D. They've been working against a 3-4 a lot in practice since all three rival AFCE teams use 3-4 at times, but apparently Green Bay had something new to teach them.
Well they don't practice against it enough because i believe they lost every divisional game. I find it funny they started 5-1 and then lost every divisional game.
I cannot defend why we can't get this right. Granted, it is pre-season but all three division rivals have 3-4 defenses. We saw all this last year as well. There is no excuse why we can't figure this out. Fire away fellas.
The Pats have been the team to beat in the division for almost 10 years now. The Pats have primarily run a 3-4 for a long time. I'd imagine it's not the scheme, it's the talent level of the players/coaches.
That being said, if the Bills don't know how to play against it by now, it's not looking like they ever will.
The Bills are coached by a clueless 'nice guy' who has about as much intensity as a wet dish rag.
From a Bills board:
They don't have the triggerman for the job, and they haven't had one for a long time.
All I've ever said is that I think that the Patriots will play more ( not exclusively) 4-3 this year. I said that 2 months ago based on the personnel I thought that would be on the team.
Some of the 3-4 purest are having a hard time letting go. Just like the Conner Barwinist are having a hard time letting go. And if you are both, you are having a really hard time letting go.:rofl:
Let's see, for the Cincy game the starters ran 3-4, a brief 4-3 heavy, and a 4-2 that was more of a 2-4 with OLBs knuckle down. The second team ran a 4-3 heavy, but they also ran the 4-2/2-4 package, and they ran a 3-3/1-6 for a few plays near the end.
"Will the Patriots be using much more 4-3 this year?" No; however, they may spend more time in the 4-2 Nickel package.
Oh, while we're mentioning draft binkies...through two preseason games Clay Matthews Jr. is showing no statistics. I do wish I was as good at the draft as you. :youtheman:
Pity Connor Barwin is only averaging 2.5 TT, 1 sack, and .5 PD. opcorn:
:rofl::rofl: you two are crackin me up. Thank you. On a sad night like this (adam seward signed, but not by us) i needed a laugh
Two questions - one related to the OP:
What distinguishes a 4-3 heavy from a standard 4-3? Is this just a terminology to show we have Warren and Seymour on the ends, rather than Burgess and TBC or Green?
Is Green Bay 2-gapping or is this simply a case of Buffalo getting stomped by a good defense that is only superficially similar to the Pats? I thought Capers typically ran a 1-gap, penetrating 3-4, or does he mix it up?
lets make this even more off-topic!
I believe Matthews injured himself near the end of training camp. Sore Achilles or hamstring I think. The reason he's showing no stats is because...he's not playing. He had won the starting OLB spot before injury however, and really impressed in training camp. I don't think you can really compare the 2 yet... Thats like saying the pats are 1-1 in the preseason, they are only going to be a .500 team this year
Pencil me into both camps. I love me some 34 and I love me some Connor Barwin. It's not that they are moving from the 34 to the 43, they are mixing it up more. It's also not necessarily the switch between the 34 and 43 that matters, either. It's how they are playing it. They are mixing in significant 1-gap techniques and allowing their defensive linemen to get after it in the backfield. I have been dying for them to turn the dogs loose, and it looks like this year it may happen. The entire 43 basis is to get Wilfork into a position where he can be dominant. By aligning him as a 3-tech, you enable your best defender to be disruptive. Just because they have a Wilfork set doesn't mean that they are making a schematic transition.
FWIW, I watched Houston on NFLN replays an homeboy was all over the field. Scraping, shedding, getting upfield, defending the run, dropping fluidly into coverage, shut down a TE, ect...
I use 4-3 heavy, Dabruinz uses "jumbo," it's just a way to describe a 40 front that features two 320+ lb earthshakers at DT and two 300+ lb Atlas rockets at DE.
When I type 4-2/3 pass rush, I'm referring to the package that brings in NE's hybrid OLB edge rushers - Warren is listed at 6'5" 300, that's a 3" 40 lb dropoff to Burgess, on the other side you have a 3" 60 lb dropoff to TBC. More speed, less beef and shorter arms.
A standard 4-3, if there is such an animal, is more along the lines of 280 lb DEs and 300+ lb DTs. Julius Peppers is 6'7" 283, Jared Allen is 6'6" 270. Then you go to the old Colts DL that used 280 lb DTs and 240-260 lb DEs to be quicker off the ball and more disruptive through penetration.
Capers typically runs a Pittsburgh penetrating style 3-4. Here's an article that talks a little about how the OLBs are suppose to rush the passer: Victoria Advocate | Injuries give Packers' Poppinga shot to start
Thank God for some Connor Barwin discussion again. Even though my acute Barwin withdrawal symptoms had abided, I've never fully detoxed. All that talk of scraping and shedding, not to mention shutting down the TE, makes me all weak-kneed and shaky. I love what we did with our draft, but I will foreover believe that Barwin would have been the long-term solution to OLB for us for the next decade, and would still have taken him over any of our picks.
I agree with our paranoid moderator about having the personnel to mix in more sets. I love the base 4-3, but I think we can be more disruptive using different formations, including a variety of 4-3 sets. Seymour and Warren, Wilfork and Brace, and Thomas and Burgess offer the potential to run an amazing variety of DL formations and schemes. Mayo anchoring the middle as WILB or MLB with Guyton playing either SILB or 4-3 WLB gives tremendous flexibility as well. Not many teams have the personnel or the coaching ability to throw as many looks at opponents as we do, and our improved secondary should allow us to let the dogs loose much more than last year.
Sorry, I meant I love the base 3-4 in my previous post. My bad.
Don't take anything PATSNUTme and I say to each other as serious - he's a Mainiac and I'm a Box_O_Rocks.
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