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Pats will never win SB with Brady/Moss combo

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by RhodyPatriot, Dec 1, 2009.

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  1. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    Ever since Tom Brady was given all these high powered tools this offense has become more and more predictable, produces critical TO's with Brady always forcing the ball to his binky Moss, (did it again last night - Pats up 7 - 3, D stops Bress, Welker makes great punt return and Brady chokes it right back when looking for his binky- HUGE momentun changer in that game) and leaves the D on the field far too long and far too often.
    As weird as it sounds this O and this team were better off when they had a dink and dunk offense which controllled the clock and the tempo of the game. When is the last time this offense went on a 9 minute drive? Doesn't happen and one of the big reasons why is Brady continues his obsession in keeping his binky happy by forcing the ball to Moss thus turning it over/going out on downs continually.
    Until this team gets back to its' roots with a ball control and clock management offense with team will never win another SB. A big part of what made the defenses in '01, '03 and '04 so good is that the O kept the ball and kept them off the field for long periods of time. Unfortunately this D unit doesn't have the same luxury.
  2. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pats went 18-1 in 2007 and if either Asante Samuel or Brandon Meriweather caught either of Eli Manning's gift wrapped interceptions in the Super Bowl, they would have gone 19-0 and won the Super Bowl.

    This offense has become too predictable crap is ridiculous. I will admit Bill O'Brien is going through some serious growing pains as a signal caller, but there was nothing wrong with the offense in 2007. Hopefully O'Brien will learn from these mistakes by playoffs time.
  3. olschool

    olschool Rookie

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    You said it man. One dimensional offenses can't win against good defenses. Just ask Peyton Manning.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dude, we lead the league in time of possession.
  5. ctpatsfan77

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    I agree that the big problem is that somewhere between BB, O'Brien, and Brady—it's impossible to really tell exactly where this is coming from—the O just gets too pass-happy, period. Even when the running game has been working, all of a sudden they just go to five-wide, throw-on-every-down. For the life of me, I still can't think of any good reason for having Brady attempt 100 passes in the first two games.
  6. Bobs My Uncle

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    The problem with the offense is it lacks a competent coordinator who is able to design and call plays that best maximize the immense talent on this side of the ball. Fix that glaring problem and all will be good!
  7. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    All will be good? What about the secondary?
  8. Bobs My Uncle

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    I'm talking only about the offense.

    Having said this, I wouldn't object to seeing Pees removed. I actually think the secondary is fine. It's the devoid pass rush that is worrisome.
  9. Yehoodi

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    in the first year they were together, 2007, we went 18-1, and were 2 mins and change from 19-0, something that has NEVER been done. Had the D stopped Eli Manning's last drive, then we win.

    In the second year they were together, 2008, TB went on IR 15 mins into the season.

    This is our third year, and the jury is still out how we are going to do . . .
  10. Dusty

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    :D

    tencharacters
  11. satz

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    what talent. they blanket covered moss and wes. you mean the immense talent of edelmen ,stanback -both learnig to be WR and Aiken who was not put in the starting line till week5 skipping minicamp and training camp.
  12. The Dynasty

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    I didnt think the play calling was that bad last night. We established the run early and took some shots down field. Then we fell behind by 14 points. It really is difficult to mix things up when your down by 14 and playing such a powerful offense like the Saints. We just didnt execute the plays that were called. We left some big plays out there...
  13. Bobs My Uncle

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    Let me get this straight. You are critical of the talent on this offense due to it not having a stud #3 WR? Did you happen to forget that this offense has one of the best QB's to ever lace em up tossing balls to two of the best WR's in the league? :rolleyes:
  14. The Dynasty

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    Its not about having a stud #3 WR, its about having a quality number 3 WR that can make teams pay for focusing on Moss and Welker. The Saints told the Pats to beat them with our other WRs and TEs. We obviously couldnt do that. Aiken is a decent reciever but not a WR that can win games for you.
  15. Bobs My Uncle

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    Hogwash.

    3rd WR's are complimentary players not studs. Most teams don't have 3 of the top players at their position on their entire team! We have 3 of the best players at their position in the league all on this offense. Two of them HOFers. And this dud of an OC can't figure out ways to get them the friggen ball. It's pathetic how pathetic the play design and calling is on offense.
  16. The Dynasty

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    You dont seem to understand, play calling was not an issue. Brady didnt have the time to find Moss and Welker to get them the ball and with the Saints doubling Moss and Welker all night that made it even more difficult to get them the ball. A 3rd WR like Gaffney or Caldwell, that can make plays for you and burn the other team for focusing totally on Moss and Welker is what I am saying, not a stud
  17. Bobs My Uncle

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    I do understand. The playcalling on offense is putrid.

    Last night the Saints D dictated to us when they had no right too. No defense has a right to dictate to an offense that features Brady, Moss and Welker. At least not with an OC that has a clue how to use these 3 to do the dictating.

    If Sean Payton was the OC for the Pats last night and had Brady, Moss and Welker (and Maroney running lights out) at his disposal and facing a secondary decimated with injury, the Pats post a 50 spot on that Saints defense.
  18. The Dynasty

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    What would you have liked to see called?

    Yes, the offense was a problem but the defense was part of that. It is difficult to play call when your down by 14 points and playing such a powerful offense like the Saints
  19. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    It's not necessarily Moss's fault, it's an overall offensive play calling issue.

    Teams KNOW what we are going to do with Welker and Moss, there is no surprise. Look at yesterday's game, Welker 6 catches for 30 yards. Teams KNOW where we are using Welker and he is getting stuffed.
  20. JoeShmoe

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    Agree 100%. If Moss and Welker are being covered out the game then use Watson (like Manning/Brees do with Clark/Shockey), use the RB in the flats, put Welker wide and use Edelman in the slot. Do something different for gods sake, like this team always used to. Its like Brady has said to O Brien, I only want to throw to Randy or Wes

    And do not continually, every single damn play, line up in shotgun. I've lost count this year of where we've started in the first half with a balanced attack, with play action only to totally abandon it, even when were 15 points up. And whats the point having 5 WR's when you know its only going to be thrown to 2 of them
  21. Bobs My Uncle

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    I adjust backs for a living so don't profess to know what plays should be called. All I know is that an offense featuring Brady, Moss and Welker should dominate most any defense it faces. Especially one that has a secondary filled with backups, as has been the case several times now this season.
  22. The Dynasty

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    Thanks for sharing what you do for a living. It doesnt make you any smarter than the rest of the people on here.

    Yes, you would think that an offense with Brady, Moss and Welker should dominate defenses. But, when you dont give your QB time to throw and find these guys you simply cant be successful. Brady didnt have any time to throw, he was under constant pressure and when he didnt have guys in his face he was moving around to buy himself more time. The whole offense starts with the OL. You cannot be successful if you dont have a good OL.
  23. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Not necessarily. The elite offensive talent is a TRAP that has affected this team for a few years now.

    The 01 Rams and 03-04 Colts had ridiculous weapons at all positions, but they got stuffed. Their losses in key games weren't because of their need for better players. It was because they relied on the SAME guys to do the SAME things over and over again, and against any good defensive coordinator, doing the same thing stubbornly will get you stopped. The 07-09 Pats are loaded with weapons but have fallen into the same trap.
  24. Bella*chick

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    I agree with you about the pass rush, but if we're talking offense, the time (or lack thereof) for Brady to do anything would still be a problem.
  25. Patspsycho

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    It starts and ends with BB. Our time in the shotgun has been going up every year, and this year is in fact, worse than '07
  26. Bobs My Uncle

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    IOW, playcalling issues.
  27. JFK

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    Brady needs to keep going to Aikens. He is fast, gets YACs and breaks tackles very well...We have a very good player in him.
  28. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    It doesn't mean he's calling the plays, or telling O'Brien to specifically use shotgun so much. He gives his coordinators way more autonomy than you give credit for.

    Even on defense where he's a master you see him on the sidelines captured on video begging his DB's to play closer to the line, and they still don't.
  29. The Dynasty

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    Disagree, hes not a very good player, hes an average player. Hes a 4th WR in the NFL, but on this team with what we have he is our 3rd
  30. JFK

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    Can you explain why you disagree? I won't mind agreeing with you if u can convince me.
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