Pats vs Eagles

[Deus Irae]

The Steelers didn't beat us with their speed. They beat us by throwing short and intermediate routes right into the holes that our pathetic zone defense left. It's not a mystery why we started playing more man after that game. It's because our secondary isn't very good (and that's putting it lightly) and better QB's can take advantage of the zone, eat up T.O.P., and keep Brady off the field. When he DID come on the field, Pittsburgh played tight man to man coverage (a change from the zone they usually played), re-routed our receivers, and got pressure using a three to four man rush. The result was a lot of back breaking three and out's followed by a defense that couldn't get Brady back on the field quickly enough to score enough points to ensure a win. Pretty much everyone understands this except for patsfaninpittsburgh, and that guy talks as if the 2011 Pats defense is the second coming of the '85 Bears.

The Steelers did beat the Patriots with their speed. The fear of Wallace was so great that the linebackers were dropping back about 40 miles at the snap of the ball, and the safeties dropped back to a foreign country.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Their best player is McCoy, they have to beat us through the air with Young though. Only way we lose this game is if Brady sucks, we won't lose 38-35 or anything.

 

[patsinthesnow]

The Steelers did beat the Patriots with their speed. The fear of Wallace was so great that the linebackers were dropping back about 40 miles at the snap of the ball, and the safeties dropped back to a foreign country.

This is true and was so aggravating, atleast if the pats face them again they won't do that. (Hopefully)

Heath 6 catches in on quarter. :bricks:

 

[Patspsycho]

In 5 of their 6 loses they had the lead in the 4th quarter. To underestimate this team is just plain stupid. They have as talented a roster as any team in the league, and to expect them to just fall apart for the Pats is just stupid, especially in a situation where half our starting line up is STILL practicing on a limited basis. And the fact that its a road game doesn't make the task easier.

They have just as many good match ups on us as we have on them. Just to assume Vince Young is going to throw multiple interceptions is short sighted. In fact I'd RATHER see an 80% Vick than Young.. Don't forget that Young took the Titans to the playoffs twice, and has a winning record as a stater.

I'm worried, regardless of who plays, the Eagles have 2 VERY mobile QBs and the need to have a "controlled" pass rush will mitigate our ability to get as much pressure on the QB as we woul.d if they where a more stationary target

The thing that makes this game so interesting is how it becomes a great example of flash vs substance. The Eagles have a great advantage in the area of skill players at RB, WR, and DBs, while the Pats O and D lines are their strengths

Another thing that we will find out is how well the Pats offense is becoming at adjusting to teams playing them with tight coverage underneath and bracketing Welker. the Eagles have the DL and DBs to put this plan into action. And I'm interested in seeing how the Pats have adjusted to what teams are gong to do.

I think they will try to be conservative with the first few drives in order to see what Philly is doing. So I wouldn't be surprised to see the offense start slowly again. I'm just hoping that it wont take most of the first half before they start to get going.

I look for the Pats to try to establish the run early and to take a few deep shots down field.

This is the best talent we will see before the playoffs. I don't think ANYONE in the AFC has more, especially at the skill positions. So this will be a true test of where we are right now.

The interesting thing is that the Eagles are the one team that has the personnel to shut down tight ends, as they've shown all season. I agree that we need to rely more on the run even though that almost never is the end result.

If Young stays away from the long toss, he is lethal. I think he was something like 16 of 19 last week on short passes.

This time, I think BB has got to reverse his traditional defensive philosophy and put everything up front to stop the run, clog the flat and kill the short pass, and sacrifice the DEEP field, because we know that is where Young is most inefficient.

I think as long as we play an error-free game, we will beat them. The Eagles WILL make a mistake or two. That is unavoidable and inevitable and we should capitalize on those.

 

[strngplyr]

The Steelers did beat the Patriots with their speed. The fear of Wallace was so great that the linebackers were dropping back about 40 miles at the snap of the ball, and the safeties dropped back to a foreign country.

This. Our DB's always playing a minimum of 7 yards off opposing WRs is one of the most frustrating things to watch. Though, recently, we've been giving a much smaller cushion, if any, and the results have been noticeable.

 

[ausbacker]

The Steelers did beat the Patriots with their speed. The fear of Wallace was so great that the linebackers were dropping back about 40 miles at the snap of the ball, and the safeties dropped back to a foreign country.

That's not beating them with their speed technically, it's beating them with the threat of their speed. Tomlin and his staff put together an excellent game plan, yet the Patriots were still in the game with a chance to win right up until the last minute.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's not beating them with their speed technically, it's beating them with the threat of their speed. Tomlin and his staff put together an excellent game plan, yet the Patriots were still in the game with a chance to win right up until the last minute.

The Patriots got their ass kicked. The couldn't handle both the speed deep and the speed short, so they did what was talked about prior to the game, and went into a deep shell designed to keep Wallace from smoking them deep. That meant that the young, and speedy wideouts and Miller had to beat the Patriots linebackers and corners on shorter stuff, which they did pretty much all game long. The score was much closer than the game was. It was the reverse of what we used to see the Patriots do to teams the Super Bowl era, where all we'd hear after games was some modification of the basic "The Patriots aren't that good. A play or two here and there....".

The Steelers' speed killed the Patriots that game. The Giants' comparative lack of speed, especially with Nicks out, was why the Giants game the week after was much more competitive, even though that was a loss as well.

 

[Deus Irae]

This. Our DB's always playing a minimum of 7 yards off opposing WRs is one of the most frustrating things to watch. Though, recently, we've been giving a much smaller cushion, if any, and the results have been noticeable.

If the Patriots had better safety play, they could defend the Steelers much more competitively. Hopefully, the current group of stiffs can get healthy and gel together by the time the playoffs arrive. It'll be like polishing a turd but, hopefully, BB and Patriots have the coaching skills to get them playing well enough that Brady and Co. can cover for them instead of them just being an irreperable fatal flaw.

 

[ausbacker]

The Patriots got their ass kicked. The couldn't handle both the speed deep and the speed short, so they did what was talked about prior to the game, and went into a deep shell designed to keep Wallace from smoking them deep. That meant that the young Steelers and Miller had to beat the Patriots linebackers and corners on shorter stuff, which they did pretty much all game long. The score was much closer than the game was. It was the reverse of what we used to see the Patriots do to teams the Super Bowl era, where all we'd here after games was some modification of the basic "The Patriots aren't that good. A play or two here and there....".

The Steelers' speed killed the Patriots that game. The Giants' comparative lack of speed, especially with Nicks out, was why the Giants game the week after was much more competitive, even though that was a loss as well.

I have no qualms that the Steelers dominated the Patriots, however you seem intent on discounting that the Patriots had the opportunity to win the game on the final drive of the game. The Steelers will not play a better game that that against the Patriots if they meet again this season.

And no, the Steelers speed didn't beat the Patriots. The Patriots game planned to take that away, and by taking something away you provide the team with an opportunity to attack something else, which the Steelers did with the approach you mentioned. Mind you, I'd attack Gary Guyton on every passing play and every running play too.

 

[Deus Irae]

And no, the Steelers speed didn't beat the Patriots.

Yes, it did. The corners/linebackers couldn't handle the speed of the receivers on short routes, and the Patriots didn't have the speed to recover in front of their drops. The safeties were back because of the fear of the speed on deep routes.

In both cases, the speed was the key.

 

[patfanken]

The Patriots got their ass kicked. The couldn't handle both the speed deep and the speed short, so they did what was talked about prior to the game, and went into a deep shell designed to keep Wallace from smoking them deep. That meant that the young, and speedy wideouts and Miller had to beat the Patriots linebackers and corners on shorter stuff, which they did pretty much all game long. The score was much closer than the game was. It was the reverse of what we used to see the Patriots do to teams the Super Bowl era, where all we'd hear after games was some modification of the basic "The Patriots aren't that good. A play or two here and there....".

The Steelers' speed killed the Patriots that game. The Giants' comparative lack of speed, especially with Nicks out, was why the Giants game the week after was much more competitive, even though that was a loss as well.

That's right DI, just discount the 4 turnovers, the sloppy execution, the penalties, the fact they were on the road against a desperate team. It was just the "speed" like you said

 

[ausbacker]

Yes, it did. The corners/linebackers couldn't handle the speed of the receivers on short routes, and the Patriots didn't have the speed to recover in front of their drops. The safeties were back because of the fear of the speed on deep routes.

In both cases, the speed was the key.

I see merit in your opinion I just don't agree with you. When you're beaten by speed, in my definition that means the Steelers would have utilized their receiver speed to beat the Patriots with play by design to maximize the effectiveness of that speed. Given that standpoint, that's why I prefer to apply the Steelers threat of speed was what beat the Patriots, that and Tomlin putting together a game plan to take what the Patriots gave them. That happened to be those short to intermediate routes or Wallace running across the line burning the secondary and linebackers horizontally.

If you're happy to concede that it was the fear as you said rather than the actual play of the Steelers speed, then I'm fine with that.

 

[supafly]

That's right DI, just discount the 4 turnovers, the sloppy execution, the penalties, the fact they were on the road against a desperate team. It was just the "speed" like you said

4 turnovers?

On the road against a desperate team?

Which game are you referring to, Ken?

 

[Deus Irae]

That's right DI, just discount the 4 turnovers, the sloppy execution, the penalties, the fact they were on the road against a desperate team. It was just the "speed" like you said

They were at home against a 5-2 Pittsburgh team that was certainly not desperate. Sanders ran a 4.41 at the combine. Brown, a slot receiver, ran in the 4.5s at the combine and in the 4.4s at his pro day. They combined for 14 receptions. Miller had 7 all by himself, and Wallace had 7 catches. Wallace was timed at 4.33 at the combine and is considered among the fastest in the game.

And, yeah, it was the speed, just as we'd talked about leading up to the game. I had the way the Patriots would defend down pretty well pat. Unfortunately, the Steelers young players didn't make the mistakes I thought they'd make. Instead, they embarrassed the Patriots defense and marched up and down the field.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Their best player is McCoy, they have to beat us through the air with Young though. Only way we lose this game is if Brady sucks, we won't lose 38-35 or anything.

I expect a game similar to the OAK game. We're likely going to gameplan around stopping Mccoy ala stopping McFadden, BB won't let their best guy beat us. I expect him not to be shut down but contained within reason, and VY will probably put up alot of yards through the air, move the ball like Campbell did but the end result will be a double digit win for us IMO considering their injuries. He's bound to make mistakes.

If the pass rush is anything like it was the last 2 weeks it's another big win.

 

[PatsChamp88]

Offense: Provided Asomugha is out Welker should have a good day but more importantly I don't believe they have anyone that's capable of stopping Gronk or Hernandez. If we can keep their defense on the field we should be able to establish the run game easily and their defensive coordinator seems to be in over his head this year but to be fair it is his first year.

Defense: Provided we accomplish our first priority stopping McCoy, Young should be fairly easy to confuse but my only worry with trying to confuse him is our secondary would be more prone to mistakes. Don't be surprised if Andy has some tricks up his sleeves as usual

 

[alvinnf]

Pitt. may have been the defining game for this team and it's season. You can't just sit back and be cautious. Might have seemed like the right idea over the bye week, but once they saw it unfold. The coaching staff realized that growing up slow is worse than dying trying to grow up fast. Their cautious days are behind them. There is nothing to fear in Philly, play hard and tackle well.

 

[Joker]

They were at home against a 5-2 Pittsburgh team that was certainly not desperate. Sanders ran a 4.41 at the combine. Brown, a slot receiver, ran in the 4.5s at the combine and in the 4.4s at his pro day. They combined for 14 receptions. Miller had 7 all by himself, and Wallace had 7 catches. Wallace was timed at 4.33 at the combine and is considered among the fastest in the game.

And, yeah, it was the speed, just as we'd talked about leading up to the game. I had the way the Patriots would defend down pretty well pat. Unfortunately, the Steelers young players didn't make the mistakes I thought they'd make. Instead, they embarrassed the Patriots defense and marched up and down the field.

the Pats were the road team. not at home.

 

[Deus Irae]

the Pats were the road team. not at home.

You're right, of course. Ken's comment about "desperate" had me confusing the Cowboys and Steelers games with regards to venue, for some reason. I ended up compounding his error. Still, the Steelers certainly weren't desperate, and it wasn't a 4 turnover game, so I still don't see what Ken was trying to get at.

As an aside, this bout of sickness has me forgetting to double check posts and edits, so apologies if there are more bad errors this weekend.

 

[Joker]

yeah...I saw that...hydrate and get in plenty of couch surfing..

I still think what I thought right after that game...Pitt did the unexpected...completely against what they had done for many seasons previously....the Jets did that last playoff game...I see it as other head coaches coming up with a Patriots/BB specific wrinkle that they know cannot be dissected right away and compensations made...as evidence I point to the fact that the Jets confused the hell out of Brady in the playoff game with the "amoeba!!" defense and now this season, lost the first game in NE rather convincingly and then got blasted AT HOME the second game...so much for Wrecksie's amoebic dysentery defense...I imagine a matchup against Pitt in the playoffs will find the Pats better prepared for the aerial attack strategy.