Pats still need someone who can rush the passer

[Ring 6]

Yeah, I know. I was referring to the burst he showed to take the QB down before he could even think about letting the ball go.


I don't think it's nearly as bad as you or the commenters on YouTube have made it out to be. He set the edge on quite a few plays and showed an ability to get penetration on a regular basis, and his effort on every play is outstanding--even though it was a tough game for him. He shows an excellent first step throughout the entire clip, with few exceptions.

You don't have to hit the QB or get a sack to have a successful day as a pass rusher. He did miss a few tackles and get blocked a few times. Everyone has bad games. The clip shows me a guy who still has to improve, but should be able to contribute as nickel rusher in his rookie year.

It wasnt a highlight reel it was all of his plays in that game.
Why are we talking about 'setting the edge'? That wasnt his job as a 43 DE at Fla.
Setting the edge simply means that when you have CONTAIN you tie up your blocker and either turn the play inside, or cause the sweep to move laterally toward the sideline.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I like Cunningham a lot and actually thought he was a better fit than Dunlap. I'm a little disappointed though that we didn't get anyone else. Griffen, Sapp, Hardy were all there for the taking and we took a TE and a P.

I like Hernandez as an H-back and he should add an interesting dynamic on offense, but I thought we needed another OLB more than another TE/H-Back.

I liked Mesko's leg, but not in the 5th round.

People can say what they want about Sapp and Hardy, but they are both talented pass rushers and have the physical traits. Maybe they are lacking a little in effort or against the run at times or have some injury problems, but to not take a chance on them when they fell that far is crazy to me. Greg Hardy was a top 10-15 talent going into his senior season. You could've had him in the 5th or 6th round, and you took a punter instead when our pass rush was anemic last year? Ricky Sapp,who is lightning quick off the edge, would've been a better pickup than Hernandez.

I'm happy we came away with Cunningham, but I thought we needed to add 2 OLB in this draft, and I'm very disappointed we did not come away with a Griffen, Sapp, or Hardy considering the value we could have gotten them at.

 

[alphilip77]

For those of you who are b1tching about the Cunningham pick, unbelievable. We finally go out and address the pass rush in one way and yet you're still not satisfied. I understand that alot of us (myself included) would have felt alot more comfortable if we drafted another guy. But Bill apparently didn't see anyone else who could fit his scheme, was simply too high up the board, or got taken altogether. Because of this, we got some potentially SICK offensive weapons for TFB in Gronk, Price, and Hernandez so at least we can look respectable on offense unlike 09. Look at it this way, at least we have Cunningham, TBC, Ninkovich, and Crable(?). Add to the fact that there will be a TON of UDFAs and overpaid vets that will be released available for a looksie in the next month or two, and it's not so big of a deal, so relax. And one more thing to ponder: We could just gone through the draft w/o grabbing an OLB altogether this year, so be thankful.

 

[patsfan55]

I like Cunningham a lot and actually thought he was a better fit than Dunlap. I'm a little disappointed though that we didn't get anyone else. Griffen, Sapp, Hardy were all there for the taking and we took a TE and a P.

I like Hernandez as an H-back and he should add an interesting dynamic on offense, but I thought we needed another OLB more than another TE/H-Back.

I liked Mesko's leg, but not in the 5th round.

People can say what they want about Sapp and Hardy, but they are both talented pass rushers and have the physical traits. Maybe they are lacking a little in effort or against the run at times or have some injury problems, but to not take a chance on them when they fell that far is crazy to me. Greg Hardy was a top 10-15 talent going into his senior season. You could've had him in the 5th or 6th round, and you took a punter instead when our pass rush was anemic last year? Ricky Sapp,who is lightning quick off the edge, would've been a better pickup than Hernandez.

I'm happy we came away with Cunningham, but I thought we needed to add 2 OLB in this draft, and I'm very disappointed we did not come away with a Griffen, Sapp, or Hardy considering the value we could have gotten them at.

Agreed, personally I would've liked Hardy or Lane. However, something to keep in mind, BB might be looking forward to next year's draft where it appears as though there are even more with the exact physical attributes we look for in our outside backers.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I must admit I'm shocked when I look at the comparison thread of Cunningham vs Kindle and Hughes and have no idea how this kid went under the radar like he did. I'm assuming the Pat's have been scouting Cunningham for awhile now or else they would of taken Kindle, Dunlap or Hughes. When the pick came in I was like no Dunlap? But as soon as I saw the production and his measurables there was no doubt this guy has a shot of being special for this team.

 

[zimmy]

There wouldn't have been a pass rusher in the 5th round who could come in and contribute this year anyway. If we had taken Ricky Sapp in the 5th would that make every one feel better? Because it shouldn't. Crable and Ninkovich are much more likely to contribute this year than any rookie we got in the late rounds. Without totally drinking the Bill coolaid, he really is right when he says its not about the pass rush but about team defence. If Ron Brace and Myron Pryor improve and Brandon Spikes can play then our run defence should improve. Couple this with some improvement from Bulter and some contributions from McCourty and Wilhite and we can see some more 3rd and long situations which will help the pass rush. Spikes himself is a good pass rusher up the middle. I think the linebackers we have give us some versatility between 3-4 and 4-3 and also in terms of speed and weight and we could see some more stunting blitzes.

Now that said, is Bill targeting a veteran OLB who he thinks could be cut this week? It's odd that he didn't go after Jason Taylor. It suggests he either has a target or is more happy with his linebackers then we are.

 

[patsfan55]

Now that said, is Bill targeting a veteran OLB who he thinks could be cut this week? It's odd that he didn't go after Jason Taylor. It suggests he either has a target or is more happy with his linebackers then we are.

This is what I'm a bit confused about. He either believes there will be someone out there, is EXTREMELY high on Cunningham, or has something else up his sleeve (moving Guyton to the outside, high on Crable coming back, high on Murrell...)

 

[The_Riddler]

How about the scheme? Now that Pees is gone and BB is reportedly going to be more involved in the defensive game plans, maybe we'll see some of the old Patriot "disguised" blitzes (Corner, ILB, safety) called like they used to be called back in the 01-04 glory years. We had gotten away from that over the last 4-5 years.

Teams without great pass rushers get creative with their schemes, we were one of those teams and we went away from it. With the young, quick and athletic secondary we now have with (Meriweather, Chung, Butler, McCourty), I could see BB building CB blitzes into his weekly game plans especially with guys like McCourty who with his great speed could get to the QB in nano-seconds.

By all accounts, Spikes is a great blitzer from what I've read, there's another way to get to the QB and we all know that Meriweather can blitz and cause havoc (Seattle win) when asked too.

Look for BB to really utilize this young talent in different schemes, disguised to the hilt to get that pass rush instead of relying trictly on an OLB.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Cunningham is one of my 2 binkies this year. He is a under rated pass rusher, I think he I read he ranks 3rd in FL history for sacks for what thats worth. Think of a young Bruschi. Two other guys left out there are Sapp from SC and my other binky, my namesake, Obrien Schofield from Wisconsin. Schofield was actually leading the nation in tackles for losses going into December but blew up his knee in the combine. He will need a redshirt year but we got Tate cheap last year with the same thing, worth a late 5th I'd say....

Cunningham is a stud and a freak of nature. He is a mix of Jason Taylor athleticism and Dwight Freeney speed and first step, and yet he reminds me most of Willie McGinnest with the way he uses his long arms to clamp down on a QB from a distance and then it is pain time. Very efficient tackler.

This dude could play good defensive end when he weighed 229 lb but he also gained another 35 lbs, and still looks lean. Just like we wonder how Jason Taylor can play DE for so many years and only weigh 255, this guy seems athletic enough to go the distance.

The patriots website highlight film of Brandon Spikes, you can see #49 in the background at the line of scrimmage getting much lower than anybody else in stance at the line of scrimmage.

Belichick called him an 'outstanding' player and took him from the #4 ranked college defense. He had the same amount of sacks as his more celebrated teammate last year.

I happen to love this draft and the players we took. Even picking the second tight end made sense because he is another undervalued player. To me this was a vintage BB draft. He took the guys he wanted in the order THAT THE DRAFT ALLOWED. In other words he took the CB first because that was how it had to be played to get his players. He still got his guys from the Gators and his tight ends and his O linemen projects. Even a WR pick which looks undervalued. It kind of seems like this draft fell right into BB's hands the way he stole top prospects off the boards and still got extra picks in the process.

And next year we have lots of picks again in the top rounds.

 

[WesWelker83]

Cunningham is a stud and a freak of nature. He is a mix of Jason Taylor athleticism and Dwight Freeney speed and first step, and yet he reminds me most of Willie McGinnest with the way he uses his long arms to clamp down on a QB from a distance and then it is pain time. Very efficient tackler.

This dude could play good defensive end when he weighed 229 lb but he also gained another 35 lbs, and still looks lean. Just like we wonder how Jason Taylor can play DE for so many years and only weigh 255, this guy seems athletic enough to go the distance.

The patriots website highlight film of Brandon Spikes, you can see #49 in the background at the line of scrimmage getting much lower than anybody else in stance at the line of scrimmage.

Belichick called him an 'outstanding' player and took him from the #4 ranked college defense. He had the same amount of sacks as his more celebrated teammate last year.

I happen to love this draft and the players we took. Even picking the second tight end made sense because he is another undervalued player. To me this was a vintage BB draft. He took the guys he wanted in the order THAT THE DRAFT ALLOWED. In other words he took the CB first because that was how it had to be played to get his players. He still got his guys from the Gators and his tight ends and his O linemen projects. Even a WR pick which looks undervalued. It kind of seems like this draft fell right into BB's hands the way he stole top prospects off the boards and still got extra picks in the process.

And next year we have lots of picks again in the top rounds.

I agree that this was a great draft. Belichick addressed every need we have except RB. However, this RB class sucked and the only complete back in the draft was Hardesty who has major durability concerns already before entering the NBA.

BB added two prototypical Patriot Linebackers. I really think Spikes is going to be used alot rushing the passer on 3rd down. He abused Andre Smith OT from Alabama in the 08 SEC Title Game. Smith was picked 6th overall last year! I expect him to be rushing alot from the Outside on 3rd down. Cunningham looks to fill the Burgess role - putting his hand in the dirt on 3rd down and going after the QB. He is very quick and explosive and has great size at 6-4 266 running a 4.73. I think the one question mark about him is his ability to drop into coverage but atleast he can rush the passer which is something we def needed through the draft. Todd McShay said both of these guys are eventual starters.

I also really like our late Rd picks QB Zac Robinson my fav late Rd QB, Brandon Deadrick and Kade Weston. Deadrick is excellent vs the run and has already played in a 3-4 defense in college under Saban. Deadrick could make our team our atleast the PS. Kade Weston has motor issues and never lived up to the hype after a great frosh year at Georgia but this kid has the necessary size to play in the 3-4 defense. If someone lights a fire up his ass he has all the potential in the world.

We picked up two great TEs who complement each other very well. Gronkowski will be the first TE we have had since Dan Graham who can run through people in the open field unlike Ben Watson. Aaron Hernandez has great speed and hands and will be a great option for Brady up the seam and underneath. This guy was Tebows fav target and he won the Mackey Award last year in college given to the top TE. Taylor Price is also a great developmental prospect. There are a lot of varying reports on him online but everyone says he is a vertical threat, with good hands, and he can create seperation to get open. I have heard some sites say he runs good routes and other sites say he needs to improve there. His combine numbers were good in not only the 40 but the more important three cone, 10 yard shuttle, and 20 yard shuttle.

I also really like our first rd pick. My two fav CBs in this draft were Mccourty and Kareem Jackson. Mccourty has the production, measurables, combine numbers, and hes tough vs the run which I love in a CB. We are going to have three really good Cbs on the field alot next yr. I also hope bringing this guy in gets Wheatley and Wilhite to play better this year. I think one of these guys could be on their way out with Springs a possibility as well.

 

[wilfork is beastin']

How about the scheme? Now that Pees is gone and BB is reportedly going to be more involved in the defensive game plans, maybe we'll see some of the old Patriot "disguised" blitzes (Corner, ILB, safety) called like they used to be called back in the 01-04 glory years. We had gotten away from that over the last 4-5 years.

Teams without great pass rushers get creative with their schemes, we were one of those teams and we went away from it. With the young, quick and athletic secondary we now have with (Meriweather, Chung, Butler, McCourty), I could see BB building CB blitzes into his weekly game plans especially with guys like McCourty who with his great speed could get to the QB in nano-seconds.

By all accounts, Spikes is a great blitzer from what I've read, there's another way to get to the QB and we all know that Meriweather can blitz and cause havoc (Seattle win) when asked too.

Look for BB to really utilize this young talent in different schemes, disguised to the hilt to get that pass rush instead of relying trictly on an OLB.

There are several scouting reports that suggest he could also play snaps at OLB in the 3-4.

 

[RayClay]

Cunningham is a stud and a freak of nature. He is a mix of Jason Taylor athleticism and Dwight Freeney speed and first step, and yet he reminds me most of Willie McGinnest with the way he uses his long arms to clamp down on a QB from a distance and then it is pain time. Very efficient tackler.

This dude could play good defensive end when he weighed 229 lb but he also gained another 35 lbs, and still looks lean. Just like we wonder how Jason Taylor can play DE for so many years and only weigh 255, this guy seems athletic enough to go the distance.

I really like Cunningham, but i think you might want to switch to decaf for a while.

Also, you forgot to say he was better than Lawrence Taylor, I would have thrown that in.

 

[jsull87]

Day two was much better than day one, but the Pat's still don't have anyone anyone who can rush the passer. This fact makes me hate that first round pick (like the player, but not the pick/position) even more.

If I were the Pat's I would be doing my best to move one of their picks (not the first rounders) for an impact pass rusher.

Any thoughts?

What do you think we did with our OLB pick in the 2nd round? or does he not rush the passer?

 

[patsfan55]

I really like Cunningham, but i think you might want to switch to decaf for a while.

Also, you forgot to say he was better than Lawrence Taylor, I would have thrown that in.

Hilarious. Well, baby steps is better than standing still right? But yeah, our olbs are still not where they need to be. Thankfully we improved enough in some other areas, that hopefully we can make up for it. Just a little scared still of those running backs who can get to the edge, cuz the way it looks right now we don't have many players who can set it.

 

[RayClay]

Hilarious. Well, baby steps is better than standing still right? But yeah, our olbs are still not where they need to be. Thankfully we improved enough in some other areas, that hopefully we can make up for it. Just a little scared still of those running backs who can get to the edge, cuz the way it looks right now we don't have many players who can set it.

I think Cunningham will be good. I think the disconnect with draft fans is all these DEs, who will never be OLBs and DEs who are too short or otherwise one dimensional for what we need at OLB, are hyped to the hilt by sportscenter, and will end up busts, or strictly 4-3 rushers.

I think Cunningham, looked at in that light, will be a great pick.

I just stop short of thinking he's a combination of Freeney, Taylor and McGinest at this point.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

It will be interesting to compare Everson Griffen (who might have been taken with the 89th pick the Pats traded to the Panthers) with whoever the Pats pick in round 2 next year.

Another spot was the # 190 pick which the Pats surrnedered to oakland for reaching up two spots to pick Gronk in the second round ahead of Baltimore.

Still all that is history.

 

[sdh7711]

Cunnigham should bring a good pass rush at the OLB. I think Pitt threw us a monkey wrench when they took Worilds, no one expected that when they had Harrison and Woodley already.

Oh and for those that care Cunningham had a 1.57 ten yard split thats absolutely ridiculous fast initial burst. Here's his pro day link (ignore thats its from CBS it was originally NFL Draft Scout but appears CBS took them over literally a week ago).

Jermaine Cunningham, Florida, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Anything sub 1.60 on the ten yard is really good.

Behind the times: the 10-yard split | National Football Post

 

[mgteich]

As of now are passrushers are Banta-Cain, Cunningham and Crable.

The reality is that Belichick drafted Cunningham because he thought he was better than Dunlop, probably on very good authority. I am not sure that we would be having this discussion if we drafted Kindle or Dunlop. We'd just expect them to step in and contribute. Cunningham is as good. The open question is when he will be ready to be a major contributer.

Last year, we used Banta-Cain and Burgess. I expect us to bring in a couple of veterans to compete with Ninkovich and Crable for their roster spots. We seem set with Banta-Cain, Woods and Cunningham for three of the five roster spots.

 

[patsfan55]

The reality is that Belichick drafted Cunningham because he thought he was better than Dunlop, probably on very good authority. I am not sure that we would be having this discussion if we drafted Kindle or Dunlop. We'd just expect them to step in and contribute.

Cannot emphasize enough how GREAT of a point this is. I honestly would have felt so much better if we had taken Dunlap or Kindle (to a lesser degree actually-Dunlap was my binky) as opposed to Cunningham. And about 99.99999% of the time BB is more right than I am. Of course there are always those Chad Jackson instead of Greg Jennings moments....ugh time to go hit my head against the wall again.

 

[sdh7711]

Cannot emphasize enough how GREAT of a point this is. I honestly would have felt so much better if we had taken Dunlap or Kindle (to a lesser degree actually-Dunlap was my binky) as opposed to Cunningham. And about 99.99999% of the time BB is more right than I am. Of course there are always those Chad Jackson instead of Greg Jennings moments....ugh time to go hit my head against the wall again.

I wanted Worilds after round one was completed but Pitt pulled a fast one.

I however wold of felt completely sick in the stomach had we taken Dunlap or Kindle (even before his knee report).

Kindle was vastly overrated and didnt produce well at the college level compared to his hype. Only had 6 sacks last year, 3 forced fumbles his entire career, and never intercepted a pass. He was a total finesse player and his ten yrd (1.65), shuttle (4.53), and 3 cone (7.26) times were pretty bad too at the combine.

Dunlap's stat line was abut exactly the same to Kindle's too in production and combine measurables.

College career wise Cunnigham's stats are better than both of them. Same sacks as Dunlap more than Kindle, more TFL's than both, more forced fumbles, and an INT. Gotta watch the hype machine sometimes, just cause someone is the sexy pick doesnt mean they are the better one.